Battlalion Requirements and Keywords

[the_prophecy]

Hi there,

does a Unit wich has Mortal, Nurgle, Hero count also as a Mortal Nurgle Unit? For Example in the Plaguetouched Warbands requirements it says that you need 1 Mortal Nurgle Hero and 7 Mortal Nurgle Units. I have 8 Mortal Nurgle Units in my Army and 3 of them are Heroes. Is this legit?

[rokapoke]

Yes, combination keywords specified on battalions (and, for that matter, abilities) are always satisfied by combining the separate component keywords on a warscroll.

In this case, a warscroll has three keywords:

1. Mortal
2. Nurgle
3. Hero

This unit satisfies the "Mortal Nurgle", "Mortal Hero", "Nurgle Hero", and "Mortal Nurgle Hero" combinations.

[BaldoBeardo]

Rokapoke is correct, except when limitations are placed on specific combinations.
MORTAL NURGLE HERO units are also NURGLE MORTAL units.
However, the answer is no, as explained in the FAQ (Spyreheart warboss).
The battalion states _one_ MORTAL NURGLE HERO. So you may not take more units that meet those keyword criteria.
If it didn't have that specification (, you'd be fine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Nico]

There's actually another more specific FAQ on this - see page 10 under Chaos (Bloodmarked Warband).

A hero does count as a unit for this battalion. The implications of this answer are that you can take multiple heroes in the battalion. It's clear that GW's purpose is that you can take any arbitrary combination of heroes and non-hero units in any of those Everchosen Battalions (provided you have at least one hero - that's the only reason it doesn't just say 9 Mortal Khorne units). It's a minimum and not a maximum in the context of this Battalion.

This specific answer on the specific battalion in question overrides the implications of the Spireheart FAQ answer. The latter is making a different point about the number of ridden Phoenixes with Anointed you can have. This is a niche point and shouldn't be taken as a broad brush rule in a hyper literal manner. The answer is unfortunate (they need to emphasise in what respect you need to be precise more clearly) as they cannot mean to wreck half the battalions in the game which is what the hyper literal approach does. 

The same issue arises for the Sylvaneth Ironbark Wargrove battalion where the purpose is that you have to take Treelords (as distinct from Treelord Ancients), even though technically both have the Treelord keyword. You have to use the derpy Treelord (so effectively no-one uses this Battalion). This is fine.

As discussed elsewhere if you take the hyper literal approach, any battalion that uses the keyword "Unit", e.g. "Stormcast Eternal Unit" rapidly causes pandemonium as if you put a (say) Lord Celestant in, then he might be ticking multiple boxes at the same time, since he is a Lord Celestant, a Hero, and a Stormcast Eternal Unit. Then you get into unsolvable puzzles as to whether a single unit is ticking multiple boxes or not, whether each requirement is a maximum that could be inadvertently exceeded by including a unit in a different box that also ticks the other box etc..

As a further point, the wording of the Bloodmarked Warband specifically envisions there being multiple heroes in the Battalion. 

To sum up

Where you can discern the purpose, follow it, don't put the Treelord Ancient in Ironbark, don't put all the Anointeds on all of the Phoenixes in the Spireheart Battalion.

For regular battalions (without the deliberate distinctions such as those present in the two discussed above), I suggest the approach of each unit only ticks one box and be sensible and purposive about it.

Don't push things too far. I would say that putting a Lord Celestant on Star Drake in a Battalion that requires a Lord Celestant is approximately where the hazy border line is (and I would say on the permitted side of that border line). Partially that's because Star Drake's are actually pretty meh per point invested and are good at doing stuff that the rest of the Stormcast army is pretty (or even very) good at. A Star Drake might be better off rocking up with some Order dudes. 

I suggest avoiding doing things like taking a compendium battalion, packing it with half old PDF Warscrolls (that have been updated) and half new ones e.g. trying to use the Charnel Pit Battalion and using the old Ghoul King warscroll with the broken command ability together with the new Terrorgheist (for 6 mortal wounds on a 5+ to wound or whatever) - that would be on the dubious side of the border line.

   

 

[the_prophecy]

6 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Rokapoke is correct, except when limitations are placed on specific combinations.
MORTAL NURGLE HERO units are also NURGLE MORTAL units.
However, the answer is no, as explained in the FAQ (Spyreheart warboss).
The battalion states _one_ MORTAL NURGLE HERO. So you may not take more units that meet those keyword criteria.
If it didn't have that specification (, you'd be fine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

 

i dont think it is super clear so i think i should ask my opponent beforehand

[the_prophecy]

3 hours ago, Nico said:

There's actually another more specific FAQ on this - see page 10 under Chaos (Bloodmarked Warband).

i dont see it in the FAQ do you have a link?

[Nico]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata

Here somewhere then go to Chaos. Or it's on the App.

[the_prophecy]

hm i cant find it neither in the official FAQ nor in the GH FAQ

[rokapoke]

24 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

hm i cant find it neither in the official FAQ nor in the GH FAQ

Bloodmarked Warband: Third question: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_chaos_en.pdf

Spyreheart Warhost: Last page, first question: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf

[the_prophecy]

ah so its clear that i can use heroes also as UNits, thanks all