Solvanic Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Hi All, I need help with my dwarf list! I have more models than I can fit into 2000 points, and that is the list I thought I would start with. I currently own: 20 Hammerers Gyrocopter Thorgrim Grimm Burloksson 30 Quarrelers 30 warriors 10 longbeards Ungrim 2x Cannon 2x Ballista Belegar Lord on Shieldbearer Unforged Dragon Slayer Steam Tank 2x Runelord Any suggestions on combos/balance would be very helpful! I am currently thinking about comboing the quarrelers runelords Grimm and the Shieldbearer lord. Also the unforged with the runic blade relic could do tremendous damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Based on what you've got here's what I'd personally give a go: -10 warriors (100) -10 warriors (100) -10 longbeards (140) (keep these guys in reserve/near Ungrim, grumbles are very useful) -30 Quarrellers (360) (double shots, -2 rend and 26" range, with character buffs why wouldn't you?) -10 Hammerers (200) -Runelord (80) general, reckless command trait (n the games I've played with Dispossessed since the General's Handbook came out rerolling charges with reckless has been a lifesaver and your collection is slooooow, even for dwarfs so you'll need this. keep him behind your lines, spam inspiring presence on the quarrellers and hope he doesn't die) (*alternative, slightly revolting tactic, use at your own discretion*: nothing in the General's Handbook says that your general has to be a hero/leader model and if you're running pure Dispossessed you can use all the command abilities you want via longbeards anyway, so why not make the Quarreller unit champion your general, dropping inspiring presence on his own unit every turn and giving you a reckless general model with an effective 30 wounds who's much harder to shift than any big monster model? Nothing's stopping non-hero generals from taking command traits, just allegiance artefacts. Don't expect to make any friends/win any sportsmanship trophies doing this, but feel free to give it a go if you're sick of your five wound general being shot out on turn one) -Runelord (80) (the more runelords the better, stacking rend on a unit of quarrellers or an unforged is insane + unbinding can't hurt) -Unforged, relic blade (100) (as you said this combo is gross, especially vs chaos, remember to drop Runelord rend and Ungrim's command ability on him when he reaches combat for 2+/2+/-3 rend) -Unforged, another relic blade (100), (this guy is good, so why not take another of him? even without buffs he rules and and soon as your opponent realises how much he rules he's dying in a hail of arrows and arcane bolts so why not bring a backup?) (you said you've got a second dragon slayer model, so he should be able to pass as an unforged) -Ungrim Ironfist (100) (Ungrim is ridiculously cheap under the GH so there's really no reason not to run him if you can justify his turning up in the Mortal Realms. It's a real shame he can't be used as the general, but reckless is just too damn useful and special characters can't take command traits, so he gets a bodyguard of longbeards to complain about the length of his beard and allow him to use his Slayer King command ability on one of the unforged) -Gyrocopter (80) (to be kept in reserve to jump on objectives. you really need to grab some more mobile stuff for pitched battle games) -Dispossessed Artillery Battery battalion (40) (this really only exists to give you the extra relic blade, but yay, entrenchment or whatever...): -Grimm Burlockson (100) -Cannon (180) -Bolt thrower (120) -Bolt thrower (120) 2k points exactly. I'm actually kinda tempted to try out a variation of this list the next time I play. It's very slow moving, so you'll need to put the hurt on your opponent from turn 1 with missile fire, taking out any ranged models first to ensure you've got more missile fire, forcing the enemy army to come towards you while you slowly grind up the battlefield stoically camping out any objectives you come across. Don't forget that the Quarreller deathstar is just as good in melee as it is at range so don't be afraid to commit it/take charges with it! If you're looking at buying any new models think about trading the Hammerers and gyrocopter in for a couple of units of miners to deploy where they're needed after the battle's started, and possibly replacing the artillery you've got with grudge throwers to kill annoying stuff on the first turn before you can even see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, Double Misfire said: Based on what you've got here's what I'd personally give a go: -10 warriors (100) -10 warriors (100) -10 longbeards (140) (keep these guys in reserve/near Ungrim, grumbles are very useful) -30 Quarrellers (360) (double shots, -2 rend and 26" range, with character buffs why wouldn't you?) -10 Hammerers (200) -Runelord (80) general, reckless command trait (n the games I've played with Dispossessed since the General's Handbook came out rerolling charges with reckless has been a lifesaver and your collection is slooooow, even for dwarfs so you'll need this. keep him behind your lines, spam inspiring presence on the quarrellers and hope he doesn't die) (*alternative, slightly revolting tactic, use at your own discretion*: nothing in the General's Handbook says that your general has to be a hero/leader model and if you're running pure Dispossessed you can use all the command abilities you want via longbeards anyway, so why not make the Quarreller unit champion your general, dropping inspiring presence on his own unit every turn and giving you a reckless general model with an effective 30 wounds who's much harder to shift than any big monster model? Nothing's stopping non-hero generals from taking command traits, just allegiance artefacts. Don't expect to make any friends/win any sportsmanship trophies doing this, but feel free to give it a go if you're sick of your five wound general being shot out on turn one) -Runelord (80) (the more runelords the better, stacking rend on a unit of quarrellers or an unforged is insane + unbinding can't hurt) -Unforged, relic blade (100) (as you said this combo is gross, especially vs chaos, remember to drop Runelord rend and Ungrim's command ability on him when he reaches combat for 2+/2+/-3 rend) -Unforged, another relic blade (100), (this guy is good, so why not take another of him? even without buffs he rules and and soon as your opponent realises how much he rules he's dying in a hail of arrows and arcane bolts so why not bring a backup?) (you said you've got a second dragon slayer model, so he should be able to pass as an unforged) -Ungrim Ironfist (100) (Ungrim is ridiculously cheap under the GH so there's really no reason not to run him if you can justify his turning up in the Mortal Realms. It's a real shame he can't be used as the general, but reckless is just too damn useful and special characters can't take command traits, so he gets a bodyguard of longbeards to complain about the length of his beard and allow him to use his Slayer King command ability on one of the unforged) -Gyrocopter (80) (to be kept in reserve to jump on objectives. you really need to grab some more mobile stuff for pitched battle games) -Dispossessed Artillery Battery battalion (40) (this really only exists to give you the extra relic blade, but yay, entrenchment or whatever...): -Grimm Burlockson (100) -Cannon (180) -Bolt thrower (120) -Bolt thrower (120) 2k points exactly. I'm actually kinda tempted to try out a variation of this list the next time I play. It's very slow moving, so you'll need to put the hurt on your opponent from turn 1 with missile fire, taking out any ranged models first to ensure you've got more missile fire, forcing the enemy army to come towards you while you slowly grind up the battlefield stoically camping out any objectives you come across. Don't forget that the Quarreller deathstar is just as good in melee as it is at range so don't be afraid to commit it/take charges with it! If you're looking at buying any new models think about trading the Hammerers and gyrocopter in for a couple of units of miners to deploy where they're needed after the battle's started, and possibly replacing the artillery you've got with grudge throwers to kill annoying stuff on the first turn before you can even see it. Great response thanks!! I like your list a whole lot! The only thing I am not sure about is whether it is worth taking just 10 hammerers without any +Attack buffs. Also sadly my dragon slayer has a 2H axe so he's not exactly WYSIWYG. I know Ungrim is good but he needs someone to buff, and is 10 Hammerers/the Unforged worth it? The reason I was having trouble making a list was if I took the hammerers I wanted to take 20 and buff the ****** out of them. Are miners good? I actually have 1 unit of miners I forgot about, and they do not have a points value in the generals handbook?! I am thinking your list but trade the Hammerer's+Ungrim for a Steam Tank that is pretty fast (2D6 move)? Either that or put in my lord on shield bearers to buff the Quarrelers/he could be the general, and then I would have 140 points for swapping a cannon for a ballista and maybe buy a 3rd rune lord? -3 rend on Quarrelers :O. Your list+my changes: -10 warriors (100) -10 warriors (100) -10 longbeards (140) -30 Quarrellers (360) double shots, -3 rend and 26" range, +1 to wound at closer range. Against a 4+ save these guys will average 20 dead models a volley, or over 3 Varanguard/Volley! Unbuffed Archaon would be greviously wounded by just 1 average volley. If my math is right this is as powerful as 5 buffed cannons (which with an engineer is like 1000 points). -Runelord (80) -Runelord (80) -Runelord (80) -Unforged, relic blade (100) -Unforged, another relic blade (100), -Lord on Sheildbearers: 160 -Gyrocopter (80) -Dispossessed Artillery Battery battalion (40) -Grimm Burlockson (100) -Cannon (180) -Cannon (180) -Bolt thrower (120) I feel that this list maximizes shooting potential. The Quarrelers will have ridiculous damage, + 3 buffed artillery pieces. Very similar to the one you suggested obviously except for improved Quarrelers (20 dead/volley 4+ models on average in mine vs 12.5 in yours). Maybe I should think about 40 Quarrelers and cutting a bolt thrower? The math for the cannon vs the Ballista is complicated but I know the cannon is superior, unless the artillery pieces can benefit from the Lord's command ability but I do not think they can because the pieces themselves are not dispossessed? If they do then most likely the ballista becomes better. Here is an alternative melee based list: 20 Hammerers: 400 2x10 warriors: 200 1x10 longbeards: 140 Ungrim: 100 Thorgrim: 220 Belegar: 140 Lord on Shieldbearers (General): 160 Runelord x2: 160 30 Quarrelers: 360 Unforged: 100 2000. Thoughts? I would put all the buffs into the Hammerers once they are in combat, and they would have 4 2+/2+ rend-3 attacks each for a total of ~55 4+ save deaths!! (Damn they could kill 55 blood warriors in 1 turn). I also tried to maximize bodies because Thorgrim buffs every unit (86 extra attacks in this case). But the reason I think I favor the other list is Hammerer's are slow, and also not that tough to resist shooting. Buffing a melee unit seems much better if the unit is fast, which seems to be Hammerer's problem. In my Khorne army I buff the ****** out of Varanguard by they are 3x as fast as the Hammerers lol. Also comparing this to my buffed Varanguard they can kill 76 4+ models the turn they charge with double pile in, so if they could get into combat the Hammerers would be competitive it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaosZand3r Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The Miners got a 120 point value in the GH FAQ (free download in the books sections of the AOS app). Totally worth it as they can pop up behind an enemy unit, and charge in the same turn. Think about your potential lists from a tactical perspective. Melee units in a gun line are there to protect your ranged and delay the enemy while you shoot them. In a melee focused army however, the ranged are only there to support the melee, and should be capable in combat as well (ie Quarrelers). Unforged are the Duardin equivalent of Assassins so they should always be on Hero/Monster hunting duty. Your last list is a solid melee one, but you have nothing to flank with should you get good charges in. I know flanking isn't as important as it was in 8th Edition, but it can help to trap an enemy unit. Miners, copters, and the tank are gonna be your only options with some speed, so keep that in mind. All that being said, dwarves have always been a defense focused army, so maybe they don't need as many tactics. @Double Misfire Also, why a Runelord as general? It has no command ability, so would the Lord on Shield Bearers not be the better option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 4 hours ago, Solvanic said: I feel that this list maximizes shooting potential. The Quarrelers will have ridiculous damage, + 3 buffed artillery pieces. Very similar to the one you suggested obviously except for improved Quarrelers (20 dead/volley 4+ models on average in mine vs 12.5 in yours). Maybe I should think about 40 Quarrelers and cutting a bolt thrower? The math for the cannon vs the Ballista is complicated but I know the cannon is superior, unless the artillery pieces can benefit from the Lord's command ability but I do not think they can because the pieces themselves are not dispossessed? If they do then most likely the ballista becomes better. Here is an alternative melee based list: 20 Hammerers: 400 2x10 warriors: 200 1x10 longbeards: 140 Ungrim: 100 Thorgrim: 220 Belegar: 140 Lord on Shieldbearers (General): 160 Runelord x2: 160 30 Quarrelers: 360 Unforged: 100 2000. Thoughts? I would put all the buffs into the Hammerers once they are in combat, and they would have 4 2+/2+ rend-3 attacks each for a total of ~55 4+ save deaths!! (Damn they could kill 55 blood warriors in 1 turn). I also tried to maximize bodies because Thorgrim buffs every unit (86 extra attacks in this case). But the reason I think I favor the other list is Hammerer's are slow, and also not that tough to resist shooting. Buffing a melee unit seems much better if the unit is fast, which seems to be Hammerer's problem. In my Khorne army I buff the ****** out of Varanguard by they are 3x as fast as the Hammerers lol. Also comparing this to my buffed Varanguard they can kill 76 4+ models the turn they charge with double pile in, so if they could get into combat the Hammerers would be competitive it seems. Very fun looking list (though you have taken seven heroes, one more than you can run in a 2k game). Combat Dwarf lists can be as tricky in AoS as they've been in every edition of Fantasy, as your army's always going to be slower than the enemy, and if your opponent has more ranged stuff than you he's got no reason not to deploy deep and shoot you off the board for four turns before dropping in and claiming any objectives he needs/winning on victory points. If your Quarrellers only have a 20" range there's not going to be much you can do to stop an opponent with a moderate amount of shooting ensuring they can't fire on turn 1, then killing off 11 of them to ensure they no longer get double shots. If you dropped the unforged in your list (putting your characters down to the max amount of six) and demoted the lord or shieldbearers to a Warden King, you'd be able to afford a unit of miners to grab the objectives you need late game/or cause early game mayhem behind enemy lines. The new White Dwarf/Grombrindal warscroll would also be excellent in this role if/when he gets points. @KhaosZand3r The runelord's the army general because there are no points for a lord on shieldbearers in that list! See also my unsportsmanlike suggestion of running the quarreller champion as army general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaosZand3r Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Oops lol. I was thinking of Solvanic's triple Runelord list when I replied to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 17 hours ago, Double Misfire said: Very fun looking list (though you have taken seven heroes, one more than you can run in a 2k game). Combat Dwarf lists can be as tricky in AoS as they've been in every edition of Fantasy, as your army's always going to be slower than the enemy, and if your opponent has more ranged stuff than you he's got no reason not to deploy deep and shoot you off the board for four turns before dropping in and claiming any objectives he needs/winning on victory points. If your Quarrellers only have a 20" range there's not going to be much you can do to stop an opponent with a moderate amount of shooting ensuring they can't fire on turn 1, then killing off 11 of them to ensure they no longer get double shots. If you dropped the unforged in your list (putting your characters down to the max amount of six) and demoted the lord or shieldbearers to a Warden King, you'd be able to afford a unit of miners to grab the objectives you need late game/or cause early game mayhem behind enemy lines. The new White Dwarf/Grombrindal warscroll would also be excellent in this role if/when he gets points. @KhaosZand3r The runelord's the army general because there are no points for a lord on shieldbearers in that list! See also my unsportsmanlike suggestion of running the quarreller champion as army general. Thanks for the catch with the 7 heroes! I got carried away with rune lords Newly updated list!: Just took out the extra outlawed rune lord, substituted the shiledbearer for Warden King, and that gives room for either a group of Miners! -Runelord (80) -Runelord (80) -Unforged, relic blade (100) -Unforged, another relic blade (100), Warden King: 120 -Gyrocopter (80) -Dispossessed Artillery Battery battalion (40) -Grimm Burlockson (100) -Cannon (180) -Cannon (180) -Bolt thrower (120) Miners: (120) -10 warriors (100) -10 warriors (100) -10 longbeards (140) -30 Quarrellers (360) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Very nice, let me know how you do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungi Voodooson Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Quarrellers, Grimm, Joseph bugman, 30" crossbow shots that just appear on the board, stick them next to the miners and watch flanks crumble and armies split as they break off to take down 2 flanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted September 4, 2016 Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 23 hours ago, Grungi Voodooson said: Quarrellers, Grimm, Joseph bugman, 30" crossbow shots that just appear on the board, stick them next to the miners and watch flanks crumble and armies split as they break off to take down 2 flanks i am not sure Bugman is worth it because I want them on the board supporting my army hiding behind my warriors, and shooting turn 1. Otherwise some flying monster will come eat them? Plus I really like having them next to the rune lords that is what makes them dangerous to things like Archaon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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