Anvil Of Apotheosis - Matched Play Points

[Joseph Mackay]

I wanted to have a serious discussion about fixing the Destiny Points to Matched Play Points conversion rate gw used. I’ve made a few characters now (mostly big monsters) and I feel like the points are way off what they should be and my monsters are overpriced. I’ve also done a few tests of trying to recreate existing heroes to check the costs and they all work out nearly double the actual points for the existing warscrolls.

the conversion rate in the Anvil Of Apotheosis is Destiny Points x10. I feel it should probably be x5 or x7, somewhere around there. However, I also think that maybe the conversion rate needs to vary based on weather the hero is mounted or not as some of my previous Seraphon/Bonesplitterz 600pts+ monsters would feel op at ~300pts. Note that I ignore the recommended 40dp limit as I feel you can’t do enough with it.

As an example, here is a Tyrant on Mournfang that I made, he comes out to 660pts. This is more than a Frostlord on Stonehorn and is definitely not worth 660pts, nor is he worth more than a Stonehorn. At x5 he costs 330pts which is more reasonable, at x7 or x7.5 he’s about 450-500pts (rounding up) which also feels too high.

a few notes about this guy, firstly the model.
the model for this guy, I don’t have any pictures at the moment as he’s not finished yet, but it’s a spare Mournfang and rider with a Chaintrap and Pistol, and I plan on giving him a cape.
now the rules:
-the Chaintrap. I wanted this to be a ranged weapon that also has a melee profile. To accomplish this, the missile weapon is a Bow with the required upgrades to match the Huskards Chaintrap. The melee weapon is a Flail that I upgraded to match the regular Tyrants Thundermace, however I gave it an extra attack to account for the tyrants Beastskewer Glaive that this model doesn’t get.
-the Ogor Pistols. Following the Anvil Of Apotheosis rules, this is actually illegal as you can’t give models 3 weapons but anyway. It’s a Handbow upgraded to match the tyrants Ogor Pistols, however to account for the lower range, I increased the to hit by 1 and it has 2 damage as you can’t give it D3.
-Punches and Kicks is the Mounted Beast Claws upgraded to match the Frostlord/Huskards Punches and Kicks.
-Tusks is the Mounted Beast Maw upgraded to match the Mournfangs Tusks. The D3 damage accounts for the lost of the extra damage Mournfangs are supposed to get when they charge, additionally there’s no way to modify D3 damage into 1 damage.
-Decapitating Strike represents the Tyrants Thundermace rule, except that it triggers off wound rolls rather than hit rolls.

My group is pretty open, but I’m the only player who’s really interested in using this so they’ve all basically said ‘do what you want, we trust you not to be a ****** about it’ so I’m just looking for some ideas and sort of a consensus on what would be a more accurate conversion rate 

[Greybeard86]

6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I wanted to have a serious discussion about fixing the Destiny Points to Matched Play Points conversion rate gw used. I’ve made a few characters now (mostly big monsters) and I feel like the points are way off what they should be and my monsters are overpriced. [...]

My group is pretty open, but I’m the only player who’s really interested in using this so they’ve all basically said ‘do what you want, we trust you not to be a ****** about it’ so I’m just looking for some ideas and sort of a consensus on what would be a more accurate conversion rate 

 

Looks very cool! I love some of the things the community created.

As for the points, I think it is a safeguard to avoid people "abusing" the system and having to rely too much on good faith.

I think that if you are going to use it accepting the point loss might be the safest route, rather than attempting to adjust it. I do get that it is frustrating, though.

[Kadeton]

I think if your group is open to you designing your own characters and trusts you to make them fair, then just set the points at whatever level feels fair to you. I wouldn't bother trying to find a way to fix the Anvil points, since they're so clearly out of wack with the pricing of other models - you've already gone beyond what the Anvil rules normally allow in terms of character options, so just take it the rest of the way and homebrew your characters to have stats and points that you think are balanced.

[Enoby]

I agree with you that they are overcosted, which is a shame. However, I think it's to try to encourage strangers to let each other use their anvil heroes in games; if the anvil had a reputation of making OP heroes that were even slightly close to the cheap line, there's a much higher chance a stranger would be uncomfortable letting another stranger bring an anvil model - they don't know the 'intention' (e.g. to be very powerful or narrative) of the hero. So I think GW has gone the other way to ensure that the vast majority of things created by the anvil are very overcosted - that means if a stranger sees someone bring one of these models, they can be comfortable that the anvil hero won't break the game. 

It's also, as mentioned before, as a cushion for any OP combos players may develop.

Now, I agree that they've overtuned the cost, but in a group of friends I think you can get away with making it 5× DP as you don't need to worry about convincing strangers or cheating the system.