Best adopted Stormcast units?

[Neomaxim]

I was thinking, as I continue to delve into Cities of Sigmar, that it might be a good excuse to repaint some of my Stormcast units, and give them new life.  I frankly loathed trying to run Stormcast in a serious, competitive way, but feel a lot of units have meaningful potential as CoS.

Any favorites, tips, tricks, etc...?  In early days testing both Knights Azyros and Incantor have proven fun.  I'm thinking of seeing if Evocators on Dracolines can add anything of note, though I suspect supported Demigyphs fill a similar role already as shock-cav.

[Ravinsild]

28 minutes ago, Neomaxim said:

I was thinking, as I continue to delve into Cities of Sigmar, that it might be a good excuse to repaint some of my Stormcast units, and give them new life.  I frankly loathed trying to run Stormcast in a serious, competitive way, but feel a lot of units have meaningful potential as CoS.

Any favorites, tips, tricks, etc...?  In early days testing both Knights Azyros and Incantor have proven fun.  I'm thinking of seeing if Evocators on Dracolines can add anything of note, though I suspect supported Demigyphs fill a similar role already as shock-cav.

3 Evocators unbuffed and unsupported save for their own warscroll drastically outperforms Demigryphs. 

In fact 3 Evocator on Dracolines is so powerful it competes about on par across the board with 6 Demigryph Knights w/ Lances and Halberds as well as 6 Vanguard-Palladors which are basically literally even with 6 Demigryph knights both loadouts. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Ravinsild

[Neomaxim]

25 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

3 Evocators unbuffed and unsupported save for their own warscroll drastically outperforms Demigryphs. 

I'd hope so, as they cost almost a third extra.  🙂  I've just always enjoyed those models, and am looking for an excuse to run a few.  😉

[Ravinsild]

So here’s a chart comparing the Warscroll self contained with no buffs save what is on the Warscroll itself. 

3 Evocators (260 pts) vs

6 Demigryph Knights with both loadouts (360 pts)

Vs Vanguard-Palladors with both load outs (360 pts)

This assumes a charge in all cases seeing what would happen if I played them aggressively like Gore-Gruntas and just shot them ahead of my army.
 

So then I was like okay basically the same across the board adding in manually about 3 mortal wounds from the Celestial Lightning Arc 

So then I was like well how do 3 Evocators (260) fare against 4 of all the Drake riders dudes (Concussors, Decimators, Fulminators and Tempestors) 

260 (3 Evocators) vs 380 (Demigryph and Palladors) vs about (Decimators and Tempestors) 400 to (Fulminators and Concussors) 480 points
 

So then I was like ****** it it takes basically double unit size to really compete with Evocators so what if I went the whole hog and spend 520 points on 6 Evocators on Dracolines and they ****** on everybody

[readercolin]

Lets go over the units in groups.  First, units that you shouldn't bother looking at. 

Basically all the stormcast battleline is terrible, and you would do better to leave it at home.  This includes Sequitors, which while the "best" stormcast battleline, is still outclassed by some of Cities better options.  The paladins are also terrible, as are Castigators, prosecutors, and gryph hounds.  For leaders, most of the buffing ones are stormcast only (or Hammers of Sigmar only) and don't really benefit your cities units.  Exceptions to this rule will be called out later.

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For units that are middle of the road, but can be considered in some cases:

Evocators on Foot are surprisingly killy.  Also, at 3 wounds per model, and a 4+ save they are decent on the tanky front.  However, they don't have any charge bonuses built in (and no standard bearers), and without deploying from Azur they also can struggle to get onto a target.  Additionally, for 60 points less you can get a squad of greatswords and as long as they are within 18" of a freeguild general they will do almost the exact same amount of damage as those evocators (including the post-combat jazz hands evocators get as well as assuming they get empower off).  If evocators drop in price, I would consider running them in the cities, but at the moment I would consider them to be a bit too expensive.

Stardrakes are interesting.  They don't do a whole lot of damage, but cities can actually make them more survivable than if they were deployed with Stormcast.  Additionally, they buff all friendly wizards with a +1 to cast, which is a way that you can stack some +casting buffs outside of hallowheart (or even inside hallowheart if you don't want to always rely on the command ability - bring the battalion, stardrake, and hurricanum and your battlemages all get +3 to casting even before the command ability).  While they are probably overcosted for most lists, any list looking to chip in with mortal wounds and looking to buff their wizards should consider the stardrakes.

Lord-Arcanum.  Each of the lord-arcanum's does something slightly different.  The one on foot can help you out if you are looking to be spamming endless spells.  The Gryph-Charger comes with an extra way to heal himself as well as pretty good mobility (though his command trait is likely useless).  The Dracoline one is probably the worst for cities, but if you are bringing evokitties you can dump points into his command ability to let them go reaaaaally wild.  And the Taurelion gives you the only unit in the Cities that can cast 2 spells outside of hallowheart (or 3 inside it).  Additionally, all the Lord-Arcanum's get "Prime Electrids" which buffs Arcane bolt from 1/d3 damage to d3/d6 damage, making the spell significantly better for them.  Lastly, they are all rocking a 3+ save, which makes them MUCH sturdier than every Cities mage.  I wouldn't look to bring a Lord-Arcanum in every army, but I also wouldn't dismiss them either.

Knight-Heraldor.  This guy lets other stormcast units retreat, run and charge, which can be useful when combined with some of the better stormcast units.  However, he only affects stormcast, so bringing him is REALLY dependent on what else you are bringing along.

Vanguard-Raptors w/ longstrike crossbows.  These are one of the best stormcast units, and form the core of "shootcast" lists.  However, their shooting is only average compared to what Cities can bring, and the only reason to really consider them is that they aren't that badly affected by moving and with a hurricanum to negate "look out sir" they are decent at sniping enemy hero's and support pieces.  Most of the time though you are probably better off bringing Cities shooting units though.

Vanguard-Raptors w/ Hurricane crossbows.  If these guys don't move, they actually have similar damage to most cities shooting units, and they have more room to get buffs.  However, they don't have rend or mortal wounds, so it doesn't really make that much sense to run them over other shooting units.  But if you have them and like them, they can be a valid choice.

Ballista's.  Celestar Ballista's are actually better artillery than what Cities can get with hellstorms and volley guns.  Especially if you buff them with both a hurricanum AND a lord-ordinator.  However, the real reason that they are only middle of the road is that artillery isn't all that great compared to the infantry shooting, and since they have to be taken individually they really eat through your stormcast limit FAST.  But, if you have some spare points and want an artillery piece, you would do better to look here before you look at hellstorms.

Vanguard Pallidors.  These guys aren't as good at shooting as outriders/pistoleers, and aren't as good in melee as Demigryphs.  But they are actually halfway decent as medium cav, and they have the "ride the winds aetheric" ability to give them a ton of mobility.  None of these stats are something that is super outstanding, but there is enough utility here that they can be considered if you really like the models.

Knight-Azryos.  Re-roll 1's to hit in a bubble around him can make him pretty decent.  However, you can get that exact same effect for a command point, and a 9" bubble near the ENEMY (not your units) means that he tends to have a short lifespan.  Overall, I would skip this guy, but a lot of other people are in love with him.

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Lastly, for some units that are good enough that you probably want to consider them.

First off, Evocators on Dracolines.  These guys pack one hell of a punch.  The killy infantry units can outdamage them (greatswords, hammerers, etc.) but these guys also have the mobility to get around the field easily without needing a bunch of support.  That being said, a Knight-Heraldor is a good choice for company because these guys always want to be charging.  I like these guys the most as an extra threat that can operate independently of the infantry/ranged deathball that cities usually likes to run.

Fulminators/Desolators/Concussors don't pack the same punch as the evokitties.  However, they make up for that by running around with a 3+ save that is always re-rolling 1's, making them noticably tankier than the kitties.  Additionally, if you want some extra fun, they have their breath weapon, which makes them hilarious in the Living City because they can come in off of a board edge, breath, move, and then charge.  In non-living city armies, you are probably better off with demigryphs or dracolines, but they are different enough to make the consideration list.

Aetherwings are cheap at 50 points a pop, and still do their job well of gumming up the board.  They aren't quite as good without Vanguard-Raptors about, but if you already purchased your command point and don't have any more endless spells you want to run, they are ok chaff.  That being said, I wouldn't look to run a bunch because of the 1/4 requirement, they are more of a "hey, I have some spare points" units.

Knight-Incantor.  This guy is the first wizard I would look to if I'm looking at stormcast.  He is noticeably tankier than the Cities wizards, and more importantly, he comes with a once per game automatic dispel.  Lastly, he is a stormcast wizard, which means he gives you easy access to the Comet, which is one of the better endless spells available.

Lord-Ordinator.  +1 to hit for ALL war machines.  This is a great buff to go alongside a hurricanum and getting your 4+ to hit down to a 2+, and it works for your artillery, your steam tanks, your gyrocopters, and your Kharadron Overlord boats.  The only things holding him back are that he is kind of slow, so struggles to keep up with the faster units, and that the cities infantry shooters are so good that it is hard to justify running artillery.  But if you are bringing a bunch of war machines, definitely consider this guy.

Endless spells: Everblaze Comet.  This spell is so good that it is worth it to consider bringing a stormcast wizard just to cast it.  And as a spell, it doesn't count towards your 1/4 units.  Not vital for every list, but a strong way to get mortal wounds down the table and hit your opponent.

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Overall, that is my rating of all the stormcast units I would consider bringing along with my cities forces.

[Neomaxim]

Thanks all!  The is an astoundingly thorough, and helpful few posts.  I really appreciate it.

I'm glad the data largely lines up with my instincts, as to which units I might finally be able to get back on a table.  You've given me plenty to chew on.  I'll be testing out Evo-kitties next, and already have a Comet on my painting table, alongside my old Knight Incantor.