Jamie Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 A strange idea of mine to have a full force of the Knights of ruin, I recently picked up the limited edition Everchosen for the the same price as the standard which is a steal, would this list be viable ? Leaders - 440 Archaon the Everchosen - 320 Guant summoner of Tzeentch - 120 Battleline - 1440 Varanguard x6 - 720 Varanguard x3 - 360 Varanguard x3 - 360 Battalion - 120 Overlords of Chaos Total - 2000 This list is very small but the Knights are incredibly powerful, with Archaon on the board they'll be hitting on a 2+ whatever weapons they take with -1 rend as well, they also get the chance to pile in and attack twice once per game Archaon the Everchosen is the old model on horse (which I would convert with the new model and a varanguard steed) he's a lot cheaper than the new versions but keeps the same rules, would he be allowed to be included in the warscroll battalion? The battalion gives me the dice roll each hero phase for the next turn so I'll always know who's going first, 1-3 opponent 4-6 me, which sounds amazing, and the first unit of 6 would be included which get to re roll failed wound rolls if I select a unit to mark for death All of this makes for a frightening list but would I be overwhelmed by most armies and would I be allowed to run Archaon without his new 3 headed monster ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Nada. The old Archaon is not an Everchosen warscroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 So I'd have to get other players permission or just drop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 However by popping him in the formation (which is stamped Everchosen) m you get around that (FAQs for the GH) - you can still get the Everchosen allegiance and so the VGs stay Battleline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Hope lives for Archaon lists. The one with captain 700 points but only -1 rend busts the points cap at 2020 points. Probably lose the Heroes can score Battleplan and the one where you need 10 models for the major victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 I sent an email asking GW, haven't replied yet, I think most people would be OK with me bringing a 8 would Archaon over a 20, he still has his benefits with the crown and slayer of kings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 He's pointed, so he's legal. They've already FAQ'ed that Skarsnik fits into a formation on the basis of keywords, so there's no doubt here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 I think it would work fine rules and points wise, Archaon is in both warscrolls keywords so the Varanguard still get the benefit of him being on the table, just have to run it by players first, yeah there would be a few battle plans that would make this list hopeless, unless nothing died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Fundamentally VGs are overcosted, so you're going to struggle - Khorne help you against an equivalent army of Dracoth Knights - their mortal wounds will blow you to bits. It will look great and very fluffy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I love this idea of the converted Archaon! I use the big boy archaon and varanguard. I think you need to take advantage of Archaon's command ability to make him worth it which means you cant do pure everchosen but itll be cool to try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'll try to put magnets on him so he can use both mounts, the new modle is a lot bigger and better than the last so it would look sick to have him on a huge horse, what are the Varanguard like in game? They look amazing on paper but does this mean their just a bit average in battles ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jamie said: I'll try to put magnets on him so he can use both mounts, the new modle is a lot bigger and better than the last so it would look sick to have him on a huge horse, what are the Varanguard like in game? They look amazing on paper but does this mean their just a bit average in battles ? I havent played many games with them but you're right on paper they look pretty good. I run them with fellspears and at 2000 points I run them with 3 Aspiring Deathbringers and a bloodsecrator always attempting turn 2 charge (running the heroes to get in range). The couple times I have pulled this off enemy armies have been vaporized with 6 attacks each, no unit can withstand their charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 This is the battalion in question if you haven't seen it, both the Archaon models share the same 'Archaon' keyword, so surely the old models rules would fit in, the only difference I can see is that the old model doesn't have 'Everchosen' as a keyword, i just feel that the new model would better suited for 3000 point games since he's a huge points sink and would involve dropping a unit of Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yes - New Archaon better in 2,500 points. Old one fits in Everchosen formation which keeps the allegiance going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Disagree. Battalions reference units by name not keyword with perhaps one exception out there. The new Archaon is specifically named Archaon on his scroll. The old one is not. Edit : Sorry - meant to say battalions that use keywords explicitly are pretty clearly denoted as opposed to something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 They are all referencing by keywords, except in a minority of cases where they have manifestly messed up. The Skarsnik point in the FAQ proves this. Archaon is a keyword. The old one has Archaon as final keyword. There's no doubt that it's a keyword game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between these two (see what I did there? ): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 All of those are keywords. They've updated the formatting - that's all. Also they haven't been consistent with that formatting in other scrolls recently. Keyword game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Those two come from the same book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yet they still are all keywords. Also as discussed the Skarsnik keyword query confirms that keywords are what matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 It's a tricky one, I've emailed the rules people at GW hope they'll shed some light on it, would be handy re rolling hits and wounds although a 2+ is a bit of a certain to hit really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 2 hours ago, daedalus81 said: There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between these two (see what I did there? ): Actually Archaon has both mortal and Tzeentch so he'd technically qualify for that battalion too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Well, yes, but I was more concerned about the method of indicating keywords in rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taketheskull Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Fluff-wise taking small Archaon is murderous in this formation. That said, I'd be happy to play against it and garner more glory for the Plaguefather! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 As long as people are ok with me bringing the smaller version alls good, I think most people would, but yeah 12 Knights and Archaon is a scary prospect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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