Undivided Daemon Princes: Lore and Model Speculation

[Klamm]

Long Undivision: A Princely Sum 

 

Daemon princes (and princesses). They're pretty important to the fluff of chaos, huh? With the upcoming release of Black Legion stuff for 40k (and undivided Slave to Darkness in AoS sometime this year), I’m hoping brand-new Daemon Prince kits. Daemon Princes are, after all, the ultimate goal for many a chaos champion, and while the current DP kit is not completely awful, it doesn’t capture an appropriate dark majesty. Perhaps more importantly, though,  it utterly fails at depicting demon princes of specific gods.

GW has worked to distinguish the main four across the AoS and 40k range (a good move, in my opinion), so lack of specificity in the current sculpt further dates it. It looks like a Chaos Undivided daemon…. And there is the second problem.

This facet has become an inconsistency in the lore (or that much-misused phrase, ‘plot-hole’). Back in Oldhammer, it was established that being an Undivided DP (i.e. favoured by all four) was not on offer. Belakor, first of the Daemon Princes, was blessed by all four, and his subsequent treacheries effectively discouraged them from trying again (there's quite a cool Belakor conversion floating around on Reddit recently). And yet, you can clearly field an undivided DP, as it confers the Soul Eater rule on the warscroll.

The problem is not unique to AoS. In fact, 40k has a much bigger issue, with two traitor Primarchs (Lorgar and Perterabo) being in-canon undivided Daemon Princes. Their existence does slightly diminish the impressive ‘purity’ of Undivided champions like Archaon who, in their quest to serve the entire pantheon of Chaos, forsakes the ultimate dark gift. ‘4-flavours-only’ also strengthens the Beasts of Chaos lore, since they tend worship chaos as a pantheon and from that perspective you could argue that Undivided Princedom is spawndom.

I’m not against the concept, though, it just needs more to it. Something I feel would be interesting is if Undivided DPs are the most powerful of their kind, but completely erratic, driven mad from embodying stark contradictions. I think that could be a fun tragic fate: mortals assume it’s possible to worship the pantheon as a monolith, but once they ascend to the realm of chaos they experience constant torment. More powerful but with less freedom. It's at least an angle. 

I don’t mind which direction they go, both have the potential for interesting stories. The only thing I am sure of is I want the answer soon, and models to go with it. And considering we have Chaos undivided releasing looming for BOTH systems, we might get them, right? Though I would LOVE to see 4/5 Daemon princes released for each allegiance, I don’t know how realistic a hope that is. My personal wish-list is 2/3 kits:

• A burly brute of a DP, serving as dual-kit for Nurgle or Khorne.
• A lithe, graceful DP, representing Tzeentch or Slaanesh.
• The theoretical Undivided kit, which builds either a generic unaligned DP or Belakor.

GW is pretty great at dual kits, and I think GW could do justice to all 4/6 flavours of Dp without releasing half a faction’s worth of sprues.  There's also the fact that AoS has to share its sprue with lousy CSM paraphernalia, but that's unavoidable. Also, a new and more imposing model would serve as an excuse to beef up the DP's warscroll (though I'll field it regardless). While Princes aren't usually at the level of greater Daemons, an exalted champion of chaos which ascends to Princehood should at least be able as dangerous as a Dankhold Troggoth...

 

[MitGas]

As much as I'd like to see it, 2-3 kits sound extremely unrealistic to me. While there's definitely room for improvement, the current kit is plastic and so it's unlikely that GW will replace it with a slew of new ones.

While I disagree very hard with the somewhat current trend of making all champions and DPs of Tzeentch frail(-looking) (back when I started Champions of Tzeentch had the exact same statline and weaponry as other generic Chaos Lords and were sorcerers on top of that, more like Vilitch -  Tzeentch's minions only became puny back when the Fatemaster was a new sculpt...) and thus needing their own kit, it would look decent.

But there are so many other kits that need updates much more, I'd rather see those get some love (like new Chosen if we can't get new warriors). I think a DP is the perfect opportunity to convert your very own hero (or villain). 

I totally agree with you that the DP is lacking in stats but to be honest I find that to be true for most Chaos hero units - how the hell is a goblin hero more adept with his weapon than a Bloodthirster? (hitting on 3s instead of the BT's 4+) Why is a Megaboss way more dangerous than a DP? Why then sell your soul to the Dark Gods if you're not the absolute elite anymore like it used to be?

There's a lot GW needs to fix in that regard IMO, starting with looking at the "to hit" and "to wound" stats... I'm beginning to rant, excuse me.

[Klamm]

I agree that my wishlist isn't exactly bankable. It is something they SHOULD do, not just to appease a fanboy like me but because DPs are integral to motivation chaos champions (according to surveys, 73% of Slaves to Darkness have a poster of their favourite Daemon Prince hanging in their dreadhold dormitory). And GW is clearly more comfortable with re-doing character kits than plastic units, which is why I'm not holding my breath for new warriors (they're in the SC box after all. And I actually love the models, static pose and all). I am planning to convert my Prince(ss) (I'm using Alarielle) but that doesn't stop me dreaming. 

By the way,  I wasn't suggesting making Tzeentchian DPs 'skinny'. It's more that, if you're going to have one base body serve as a dual kit, the hunched and battle-damaged bulky torso of a Khornate prince only requires a few swappable parts and less bloody, more diseased paint job to make it look Nurgle-y. Similarly, Slaanesh and Tzeentch tend towards 'cleaner' aesthetics than K&N, so it makes sense that their Daemonic forms would be less hulking. In terms of Tzeentchian DPs, I'd love to see something reminiscent of this illustration:

Spoiler

 

41 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I totally agree with you that the DP is lacking in stats but to be honest I find that to be true for most Chaos hero units

Yeah, I agree about the Chaos downgrade. It's a pity: I never got around to starting that WoC army during 8th, and now that I am they're much less imposing. [Thinks wistfully to the days of WS5, S4, T4, A2, I5 Warrior compared to a 3, 3, 3, 1, 3 human]. It's a little bit hilarious that Namarti Reavers i.e. half-souled runt archer elves armed with steak knives have the same attack profile as Chaos Warriors. But CW attack profiles are sort of tied to Liberators, being their equivalent, so I don't see it changing. 

[MitGas]

Well, if you word it like that - I also think they should do it.  Would be pretty awesome but it seems quite improbable for now, which is a big shame. Hence I'm hoping for a cool new Chosenkit  as those are IMO a sure bet (and if they get buffed, lots of bits and decent mark rules, they could be a big moneymaker thanks to at least 5 armies using them (plus some guys might use for normal chaos warriors). They already missed that train with the Varanguard, although they might change their rules with the new battletome...

A DP akin to the illustration would be nice for sure but something similar could be archieved with the current kit and a few bits. Sure, it would need lots of work to slim down the barrel chest and upper arms (so that it's less brute-ish), but in theory it's actually quite doable. (not my pic)