FPC

Any word on what the dead goblin on a base that appears with Fanatics and Skragrott is for? Just aesthetic I guess?

Agreed, effective rend -1 is excellent. Imagining 60 Stabbas with both Snufflers and Sporesplattas buffs, under the moon, mortals on 6s from foot Loonboss, with the opponent effected by Mommet -1 sv...then throw in some nets, sneaky distraction, the Gobbopaloza -1....crazy! Obviously a lot of moving parts but even getting a few of these going is huge!

“Ignore modifiers (positive or negative) when making save rolls for attacks that target this unit.” I don’t think the Mommet gets around that.

Is this correct? Doesn’t ethereal negate any buff or debuffs to saves? What makes Gloomspite abilities different?

Yea...I think this. Just looking at the leaked info and everything that’s out there there’s not much more I could ask for. A ton of good buffs and debuffs through a variety of means, multiple play styles, good magic, arguably a top end battle line (what else can naturally wound on a 2+? There can’t be much), and all the while it’s characterful and fits the theme. O&G were my first fantasy army almost 20 years ago, and I’m super happy with this release. Though I haven’t looked at points thoroughly yet, I think I’ll be hard pressed to fit everything I find good or better into an army (mostly play 1500 pts) which I take as a good sign.

Probably too soon to tell. I don’t play much competitively but I think only a few builds rely fully on a battalion now that their cost has mostly gone up. Gore Pilgrims comes to mind. I’ve always felt more models outweighs battalions in most cases unless they’re amazing.

He doesn't even need you "use" it on himself. It affects all SQUIG units within 18" so if he uses it, it will always apply to himself! I really think he could be an all-star along side a squig cavalry mini-horde.

Depending on min unit size it could be to avoid spamming them for the Spiteful Prodder artifact.

Negative rend always seems useful, and being able to basically hand out a -1 with the Moonface sounds really nice. Assuming Grots will be able to get to hit and/or to wound buffs, they might be a quality little melee option. Very curious to see what, if any buffs, come through warscrolls and spells.

Any chance you could share a bit about your process? Just picked up 25 unbuilt and might like to try this!

Well that’s just an example. It could be d3 or d6 auto mortals, maybe lose their save, whatever. But sounds like it’ll make them easier to kill/suicidal, so guess is the buff’s drawback will be something like that. I could also see something like +1 to hit rolls while the enemy get the same (or some other bonus). Who knows. Just sounds like it’ll be an offensive buff with defensive downside.

Maybe something like the Drukhari combat drug stratagem that doubles the bonus but at the end of the phase you roll for each member of the unit and on a 1 you suffer a MW. (I think this is what it does) Could be cool. Maybe a choice of a few different buffs?

That's what I really can't remember. This was years ago for me, and back then it was pretty obvious what a competitive player was bringing if they were playing caster X. That's why I think it might have been a situation where you knew the faction, and nothing else. You had to hedge your bets that you picked the list you brought that could best deal with the general play style of that army. At least, maybe that's just how local play and tournaments were in my area. I could be wrong. I think this would be a great way to play AoS, because a lot of armies fit a specific archetype but do have substantial variance. A player might assume Stormcast is bringing a Gav bomb and choose their best list to handle it, only to have Dracoths dropped on them (ok this wouldn't be a huge deal but still...). I don't play in tournaments/competitive anymore but if I did I would be happy to see something like this.

If I remember correctly the Warmachine multi list format you just knew the faction of your opponent, and picked your list from that. Might have been you knew their caster too (which if you don’t know Warmachine we’ll, the caster is basically the general, and makes a huge difference in how a list would play). Definitely a good way to play.

Potential big damage exchange. If you have a wound on you + halo + castellant lantern a 6 sv roll heals you and does a mortal back at the attacking unit. Also, one way to combat SCE’s good and often rerollable saves is to drown them in wounds so you’re bound to fail some (tho this is less effective than MWs) so in a lot of cases you’ll be making tons of save rolls for many potential 6s. EDIT: I actually prefer celestial blades but I always seem to forget the abilities that trigger on 6s to save.

As far as I know, the only redeemers are Libs and Sequitors. And also Steelhearts Champions tho never seem them in a list. Nothing can “grant” that keyword.

I’d have to agree with HammerOfSigmar. Think of it in reverse. Things that summon say the unit is “added to your army.” That suggests to me “your army” means what’s on the table. You wouldn’t say unsummoned demons in a chaos army who could be broght on with the different summoning mechanics are part of the army until they are actually summoned. Otherwise, theoretically their army is infinitely large and includes every possible unit. It might need clarification but “your army” probably means what’s on the table. Different from your warscroll or army list. This probably prevents having one unit of Libs/Sequitors as your only thing left and reviving it if it dies. Could probably use clarification or a designers note.

Short answer is no. If you are taking a Stormhost then you HAVE to use the command trait associated with the one you choose. Stacking things to a 2+ is nice but bumping a 4+ to a 3+ is still really big, especially on things with rerolls. Also, and Drachoth units would become a 2+ so you could load up a unit of 4-6 and make the best out of the Castellant's lantern.

So haven’t seen much discussion here on this lately (point me to page #s if it has!)... How is Vanguard looking in 2.0? I like the look of hunters, and feel like some scions/compass shenanagins with them and raptors could be cool. Wish there was a foot Aquilor so they could be battle line for cheaper.

I accept your surrender.

I think people mean 20” diameter. That’s why I said the ordibator has a 36” battleshock immunity bubble.

So, again, none of those are worth a DIRECT comparison. Celestant and Hammerhand are far more points, and the rest aren’t ignore effects except the priest and that can fail. Plus to my knowledge none of those buff shooting, the core piece that would make them relevant here. My point was, clearly your mind is made up. Thus, I don’t believe youre open to convincing arguments, view the situation narrowly based on this, and proceed accordingly. My experience has shown me the Ordinator is very useful. I’ve had multiple battleshock tests on important units in each game I’ve run SCE (albeit a small sample). If you think it’s IMPOSSIBLE to have two units need to make important battleshock rolls, fine. I disagree that this is overly situational or conditional but whatever. The Ordinator mitigates battleshock AND supports ballistas. All I’m pointing out is that the Ordinator does provide more than the +1 (which you said he does not). And then I don’t have to take other battleshock protections, which come on more expensive (and, really unlrelated to this comparison) models. Also I still feel like the Ordinator is almost guaranteed to last 2+ turns, where an Azyros almost always won't (barring double turn, but that probably means the Ordinator gets 3+ turns of effect). I’m not trying to say the Azyros is bad, and I intend to try one once I acquire one.

Ok. I guess you must win because you asked a series of rhetorical questions. ? But to answer those questions...more than one unit needed battle shock? Depends on the army. But if you DO have multiple test, in an army with 0 single wound models, every fail, even by 1, is big in my mind. So far because of the models I have I’ve run 2x10 Sequitors, who could EASILY both take enough casualties to necessitate a dangerous battleshock. Balistas can deepstrike with your lines of advanced troopa, and can keep up fine with 2” less move than most troops. An 36” diameter bubble is quite large, and the ordinator needs to be working 9”. Not seeing an issue there. What other area battleshock immunity is there (legit asking, not THAT well versed in all of SCE units yet). If there are others, are they relevant to this comparison? If not it’s not really a strong argument. My point wasn’t “take an ordinator for his command ability” it was to refute that he ONLY brings the +1. Again, will multiple units needed battleshock immunity come up every game? No. Could the Azyros die before his MW bomb? Sure, but you’re not taking that out of the equation. Either way there’s obviously no convincing you, even tho it’s been pointed out what uses the Ordinator brings (not the least of which being he’ll almost certainly last longer). ??

Right but it can only affect 1 unit. This would give your whole army or a large amount of it (assuming you're bricked up) battleshock immunity. Definitely circumstantial but still refutes the Ordinator "generating no value outside +1 to hit..." Just saying, comparing both characters is only so useful. One buff does not define a character, no matter how critical that buff may be. There's always a circumstance where X may be better than Y, even though in some ways Y beats X on paper.

How about the battleshock immunity his command ability gives? Could be huge in a pinch.