kahadin
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Posts posted by kahadin
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Post how well these guys do when you play them. I've never made much use of them except back when they were 140 points as my screening units, their mortal wound output and damage was never great even when it worked.
I haven't been playing AoS for a while due to all my game stores shutting down, so I don't even know what people are fielding now or how Mighty Skullcrushers would do.
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Keep turn rolls and potential double turns. Its an aos mechanics incentive the dawn of the game players need to cope with.
Kill free summoning. I have always hated it and it has not been an aos staple like rolling for turn priority. It was a 2.0 addition that focus groups seemed to want. (Anyone remember the days of 2-3 complaints per day that horrors didn't get free split?) Obviously rework the points for everything, like horrors without free split.
Maybe bring in obscuring area terrain to give some shooting and spell counterplay.
I know I'm ignoring 15 pages of discussion, but I had to drop my opinion on AOS 3
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Skullcrushers are very tanky. I used to use them when they were 140 and a 4+ save. They block off a huge area of the board and hold strong well. I didn't charge with them either. Just sat them in the way of the opponent. I think they are probably worth it still. +20 points fora 3+ save is a good trade if you want tanking.
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You can summon from it i the rules, so I can't see how it would be a problem unless there was no legal space to summon.
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You don't autolose if you have no models on the board in AoS. (Unless something changed that I missed)
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You can't have a goreglaive in a 5 man warrior squad.
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I like the throne idea, that model feels like it would make a good priest.
The Khorne aura would be nice too.
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Do you guys have any hopes for the Khorne stuff that's coming in Wrath of the Everchosen?
I have a feeling the battalions might be remakes of the old everchosen battalions. I'm nor sure what they will do with the subfactions. I would like to see them make certain units khorne while in the subfaction. For Example maybe make some beasts of chaos units or monsters are always khorne if you take them in a certain subfaction.
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21 minutes ago, Death1942 said:
This looks like the winning Cancon list and I just finished watching the final game it was in. The big trick is the tournament was held in the realm of light so the lifeswarm is buffed up, he deliberately hits his unit of pinks with the daemonrift to pop out some blues and then casts lifeswarm to heal up the pinks. I think he made the unit go from 50 effective wounds to 72 during the game so it basically can't be shifted.
Aside from that it has the usual tzeentch tricks and he played it well.Thank You Death,
I can see why that would be more amped than it looks at first glance. An empowered lifeswarm healing back pinks after getting a handful of blues could be pretty rough.
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I think this is the list everyone is cutting their wrists over. A bit OP 10 pink horrors and 2 units of three flamers:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Change Coven: Eternal Conflagration
LEADERS
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Rod of Sorcery
- Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Fatemaster (120)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Fatecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
-Staff of Tzeentch
-Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Changeling (120)
-Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
BATTALIONS
Changehost (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / COMMAND POINTS
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82
The chief complainer was running petrifex nagash...
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My intuition tells me that since our blood tithe is so marginal we don't pay a points premium for it.
I don't know if that's actually true, but I don't like what happened to Slaves to Darkness. There units got slight boost and their points went through the roof. I'd hate for something like that to happen to Khorne.
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31 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
I don't see how the kinds of changes I suggested above would make Changehost "unusable" -- two teleports and getting to be 1 drop are still fantastic.
It's also not at all clear that horrors and flamers themselves need to be nerfed. I think you are absolutely right that these units, at baseline, are things that the metagame can adapt to. I hardly think that they are the only good things in the tome though -- Kairic Acolytes and a bunch of the heroes also seem quite strong.
If you don't deal with what Changehost is doing, however, I don't see how the metagame can adapt. Most armies can't do anything that interacts with it. What can you do against being bottled up in your deployment zone by 100 wounds of models that are basically immune to battleshock? What adaptation is really possible?
I was not addressing you friend, just the amount of passion I see against DoT in general.
Personally I think their only real problem is how much people hate fate dice, but you don't see people really saying that. I'm worried that all this passion will translate to DoT getting the hammer and little worthwhile being left.
I can't tell you the best way to counter DoT in their current state, but I can guarantee someone will in a few weeks.
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I'm sad because I feel like the only thing worth a damn in the whole book are horrors and flamers. I don't think it will be much of an army to play if you make those units "balanced".
I'd be sorry to see changehost unusable as well.
I think the meta just needs to catch up to tzeentch and it will be ok.
I don't really know of anything that was unclear and needs a Q&A. I imagine people will just hope for some hard erratas, so even though I'm not a DoT player I'm worried about what will happen.
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Dr. Rune, please improve your dataset by posting the Daek Aelf stuff too.
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8 hours ago, Blisterfeet said:
So @Smooth criminal with this do you have a tier list of damage output for non character units versus' 4+ save unbuffed?
I looked through warscrolls and did a basic list and these were the frontrunners but maybe I am missing something.
Thanks for that @AresX8
Skullreapers are the best in my experience. Their mortal wound output is high and they take buffs well, but don't require them. If they are facing a 5+ model unit or get reroll hits from a warshrine they are crazy.
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Hamerhalian Lancers seem pretty good.
They seem to put out a lot of damage on the charge if the battalion is active, they are more like the type of heavy cavalry I've been wanting to see for a long time. If you can get the second attack command off they are pretty nasty, because it works at the end of the combat phase so they still have their charge buffs.
I have been testing them with the reroll 1s to wound artifact.
Has anyone else tried them out? What do you guys think of them?
Edit:
So the battalion is 1k points. That should leave room for units to shoot away enemy screens and have screening units for the knights.
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You get 20 Irondrakes for 30 handguns. If the irondrakes are stationary they get 40 shots to the handgunners 30. They also get the rocket. They seem pretty good to me.
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8 hours ago, Xasz said:
To be fair, Nighthaunt is probably the second worst battletome-faction, right after KO.
In my last game against them it pretty much felt like nothing he did mattered. He got the charges he wanted, he got the double turns he wanted and I still won without breaking a sweat. Which I sadly cannot attribute to my "elite" playstyle nor my own army.
I took out some gloomspite and Daughters of Khaine too, but I can already hear about how knowing no other factors the DoK player must have been ****** and the gitz are the only other BT worse than ours... I think both of those are true in this case, but thats not my point. I feel like we are moving the goalposts. The question was if we have been getting any wins. I say yes, not it only because the army I played is worse than ours. If I beat a good army, then I'm sure the player is bad. If I beat a good player I'm sure that the player's luck was off or they were playing a bad comp. I'm sure if I beat a good player with a good comp then it was a bad mission for that army.
All I can say is that I'm doing well with them. I'm sure we can keep moving the goalposts and no matter how many top finishes the army gets in big tournaments it won't be top enough, or the tourny wouildn't be big enough.
I'm enjoying the army and the level of my local players is such that I can have a good game with BoK mortals.
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I have to agree that this is a strong book. I've been doing well in my games and I was pretty down when the new book came out. I'm not sure we will get point drops simply because what I have been using has been doing well... Almost better than well. Ive generally been ahead most games, then towards the end drop 10 flesh hounds. Its nice.
I dismantled a nighthaunt player last weekend. It was better part of valor and I just shut the door on him. My skullreapers and blood warriors swept from the right edge and gobbled up units to the left side of the table. I recorded the game and I'm trying to figure out how to edit it so I can upload the game. I'll try to take photos next time and do a written report.
If you are feeling flat about mortals try fielding a blood stoker. They throw our units over the top. Blood warriors are a force to be reckoned with when they re-roll wounds. Slaugterborn and bronzed flesh make stuff super tanky too. I love it.
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I might as well throw my hat in the ring.
So the prayers and blessings... PLEASE stop getting these confused. All the priests with a battletome get both a prayer and a blessing. They can cast one of each. For our part we can cast killing frenzy and blood boil, but not also blood bind. The Fyrslayer FAQ just means they get the they know 2 BLESSINGS along with the prayer on their warscroll, but can only cast one of each still. So a runesmiter with the command trait knows one prayer and 2 blessings, but can only cast the one prayer and one of the two blessings known.
If you cannot grasp that then just voluntarily stop casting your prayer and blessing on the same turn. You will sleep easier at night.
As far as points I believe the points will change. We saw Legion of Nagash changes an they came out right before the GHB.
I would like to see Skullcrushers go down. They feel too expensive right now. Maybe a six man squad rocks socks, but a 3 man squad doesn't seem worth it.
I doubt Blood warriors will go down. I've been getting good value from them this BT.
I think like others said the heroes may see adjustment, but I feel pretty good otherwise.
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On 5/10/2019 at 3:42 PM, Grimrock said:
Frankly I think Slaanesh is pretty terrifying for Khorne and I'm not really sure how we're supposed to deal with it. We have a few things in our favour, namely that we naturally run MSU and a big slaughterborn battalion will be a real tough nut to crack for an army that mostly relies on rend, but the locus of diversion just curb stomps melee armies. If you send a single unit at a keeper that unit is pretty much doomed. You can try to work around it with multiple units, but if the opponent is clever with positioning the Contorted Epitome even that might not work. They're incredibly fast, hit like a truck, and can summon 1k of points in a game if they build for it. Plus 'building for it' isn't like Seraphon where you need to sacrifice composition and combat to generate points. It just means the Slaanesh player is including loads of high damage heroes and running them straight at you to do what they would do anyway. The fact that all of our good models are multi wound doesn't help either, they're just depravity points in waiting.
They're still new so it's all theoretical, but does anyone have any thoughts on a solid list to run into Slaanesh?
I can only think chaff will help. Try chaffing up their melee heroes with marauders or blood reavers. Maybe a brinzed flesh warshrine. It should take some time to eat through 40 men with 4+6++.
Or layer the chaff. Multiple lines of reavers. Don't charge him. They can't fly, so try to trap them. They can probably kill a 10 man in a round, but it buys time. Then eat the rest of the army and hold objectives, but that's the only way I see it working.
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It's an unmodified save roll, so I don't think things like the ward from the warshrine trigger it.
If you can you might want to squeeze in a blood stoker, those reroll wounds make the blood warriors pretty hot.
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60 point reavers would be nice. I'd also like to take 10 man marauder squads again.
I wonder if that ten points would really make a big difference though.
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I think it was a choice not to let us summon multiple units. We could from the generals handbook summoning. It's possible that little wording change saved us from worse point hikes.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Looks like all your punch is in the knights. I have never gotten much from skullcrushers, so another unit of knights or skullreapers might be nice.
If he is holding objectives with small units you might want something small and fast to take them out or just stand around to contest them.
Marauder horses, Allied warehounds, more knights, you kind of have to judge what will work.
I like warhounds for screens, which can help make sure you don't get swept. They are a super long chain of bubble wrap. They are 10 points more than readers, but they formed a longer chain and are faster.
Don't take my advice as gospel though, because I played my first game in like a year last night and it was pretty rough. I recorded it, but me and my opponent made too many errors to list since we were out of practice. (It was Lumineth and I nearly got tabled, but won on points)