Gwendar
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Posts posted by Gwendar
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@NikobotI've been up against Tzeentch and a heavy Shooting/Magic list with SCE and both proved to not be too much trouble. For the SCE I just used giant rat summoning to block off his cav units trying to get to my wizards and proceeded to nuke away using MW spells and cannons (and the d6 MW mortar shot in hero phase) which cleared out his heroes while Stormfiends neutered his shooting units. His 10 man liberator screens couldn't stand up to a buffed unit of shock gauntlets.
Tzeentch was a bit more difficult, but so far I have only played them in 1k (newer player, still trying to build up his army) but I really rolled like absolute trash in our most recent. Across the whole game I maybe got off 3-4 spells across my arch-warlock and engineer 2 of which were unbound even with my spark re-rolls..it just wasn't a good day for my dice. He has generally only ever been able to generate enough fate points to get back a herald on disc or pink horrors, which really did nothing for him since it was so late in the game by the time that could happen and my stormfiend units + cannon have no issues dealing with anything in his army outside of his more resilient Tzaangor unit of 20 (soon to be 30) that can hold up the fiends for a turn or two and whittle them down.
Overall the same concept applied: Shoot heros with cannons and MW everything down with the wizards. At that point it's a simple game of playing cleanup with everything else.
I will say that normally spark re-rolls have been the only use for sparks, but occasionally that 1 extra damage is useful in order to finish off a hero that saved just enough wounds to be at 1 wound left, and I will opt to use it for that instead. I wouldn't say I rely on magic for anything, I put most of my heavy lifting into cannons and stormfiends and so far it has worked well.-
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See, I had considered that as well honestly, but with all of the wizards I get anyway I wasn't too sure how to feel about the balewind benefits for 1 wizard when I could just generate more bodies with the same 60 points. I do have a unit of 1 Grinder + 2 Ratling gun fiends I use occasionally, but they tend to whiff on their rolls more often than not.
Vigordust+Packmaster practically guarantees a unit deletion most of the time, and so far I've had better luck with that. It just depends on the army honestly. Deepstriking? Drop the packmaster for more rats to screen my backline wizards. Shooty armies? More giant rats or maybe just throw in a palisade to protect the stormfiends marching up the board. The overall core does decently, but those 60 points can make a huge difference, depending.
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I ended up settling on this. I tried a few games without the extra cannon and instead added in some more mortars, but wasn't a huge fan frankly. I prefer to be able to shoot with the cannons 3 times per phase and almost always get some wounds out than gamble with the mortars doing anything at all (they usually miss).
I may try out dropping the packmaster for his buff on the shock gauntlet unit and use those 60 points for another use of the warpseers command ability. Getting as many of those out 1st turn so they can move in the 2nd has been crucial in my games. Previously I did what most people do and used clanrat screens, but these have worked well enough on their own without the use of any additional screens. After all, the clanrats save value may as well be nonexistent like the giant rats with the amount of rend I come up against.
Allegiance: Skryre
Leaders
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Scavenger
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
Warlock Engineer (100)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- Allies
Packmaster (60)
- Shock-Prod
- Allies
Battleline
3 x Stormfiends (290)
Shock Gauntlets
3 x Stormfiends (290)
Warpfire Throwers
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
Units
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Battalions
Clan Skryre (80)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Total: 2000 / 2000 -
I still play Skryre almost exclusively most of the time. The warpspark faq hurt a bit, but overall I never relied on it anyway in either aos 1 or 2.
Jezzails have become mostly useless over just taking more cannons in my opinion, and I've yet to lose across 4 games while running an Arkhspark+Gascloud with 2 cannons.
I highly recommend adding a warpseer so you can generate giant rats. They work exceptionally well as a screen or at grabbing objectives while the rest of the army does all the work. Overall I think Skryre feels about the same, some things just shifted a bit but we're as good as previously I would say.
There's a tournament at the end of every month at my flgs so may have a batrep then to post up.
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What's the general consensus on using two battalions competitively?
For example I'm thinking of running an execution horde + artillery train with 3 magmas. Would get me a 3 drop with the extra Smith I would bring and obviously the benefits are great.
Either that or considering dropping artillery train (and thusly the iron daemon) keeping 3 magmas and adding in 2x3K'daai instead but then I'm at 8 drops with an additional Smith here too. I always lean more towards the K'daai list as it still has 3 cannons in it anyway, but maybe I'm selling the iron daemon short on its worth as well as not having a 3 drop.
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3 hours ago, Steelgrin said:
I think that one is up for debate really - I prefer two cannons just because I prefer the security of rolling for a hero phase shot and if it all goes wrong theres still one left, or similarly firing the equivalent of 3 shots per turn.
True, I kind of thought the same. I've had it blow up on me first turn before, and in a the current meta of "kill all heroes/wizards asap" I would find that more valuable...plus, yeah, I never hit anything with mortars and even if I do it can only do 6 damage now over 12.
2 hours ago, Lord_Skrolk said:Just sad
Basically sums it up. I put a lot of work into converting 9 for them to be useless over a cannon now. Love the idea of them, and still try to use 6 in a mixed Chaos list but overall the cannon always pulls more weight since no one leaves their hero units unattended anymore. I tried with vigordust one game but it just wasn't worth it, especially over using it with shock gauntlet stormfiends.
Maybe they could lower the cost, but then I imagine the MW's mechanic would be lost to compensate knowing GW, but even then hitting a hero(their sole purpose imo) on 5's would be horrendous unless the to-hit went down a point as well.
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True, maybe drop the hammerers altogether and go 2x20 Ironbreakers, 2x10 Longbeards and 2x20 Irondrakes w/ 2 Copters/Bombers as allies?
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47 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:
@Gwendar The big question for either the copter or bomber is do you know what armies you will be playing against?
I do, but I also really just like shooty units/the idea of copters. Hell, I'd love to just bring 2x40 drakes and call it a day. No matter their army, the local people play rather aggressively
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1 hour ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:
For 1000 points it’s hard to say, but I think that probably wouldn’t do that great, imo you’re relying on the Irondrakes too much there, and you don’t have enough bodies too protect them.
For 2000 points that looks much better, I would definitely add at least one unit of longbeards, personally I would add two units then add either a wizard or a gyrocopter.
Maybe take out 10 Ironbreakers for 1 unit of 20 and a unit of 10 Hammerers? Or 20 Ironbreakers and 20 Hammerers and 10 Irondrakes? Either way I would be building towards models for 2k so whichever works better.
Are copter better than bombers due to the steam gun? Being able to potentially cause d3 MW per bomber with a decent gun and 1 more wound seems better but I'm new to the dwarfs after all. Maybe I just need to look at the copter as a 80pt throwaway unit to cripple a large shooting unit and that's it? Maybe 1x10 Longbeards and 2 Copters instead of the below?
Maybe:
Allegiance: Dispossessed
Leaders
Warden King (120)
- General
Runelord (100)
Runelord (100)
Battleline
20 x Ironbreakers (280)
20 x Ironbreakers (280)
30 x Hammerers (420)
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
Units
20 x Irondrakes (360)
War Machines
Gyrocopters (80)
- Gun: Steam Gun
- Allies
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 129
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So, how about this in a competitive setting? Trying to have all bases covered. What realm artifacts have you all found useful since all that's good for Skryre allegiance is vigordust?
Considering an alternative version that drops 2 Mortars for another cannon, unsure of which would be better.
Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Scavenger
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- Allies
Packmaster (60)
- Shock-Prod
- Allies
3 x Stormfiends (Warpfire) (290)
3 x Stormfiends (Shock Gauntlets) (290)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Clan Skryre (80)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 92
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Hey everyone, been reading through and came up with this list. I'm looking to make my next armies Legion of Azgorh and Dispossessed. How would this fair for 1k? Local players have a bit of everything from Seraphon, DoK, IJ, LoN, SCE, Khorne/Nurgle.
2 Runelords
3x10 Ironbreakers
1x20 Irondrakes
I was looking to expand into 2k with something like this:
Warden King
2 Runelords
2x20 Ironbreakers
1x30 Hammerers
1x20 Irondrakes
The other 440 points are up in the air for me. Are gyrocopters or bombers any good? I thought they may add some mobility for objectives/hit backline units, was thinking 2x1 of those. Maybe add in long beards somewhere? I would love another 20 Drakes but that would put me 20 over unless I drop some ironbreakers, and 2 units of 20 seem too good over 2 units of 10 or 1x20 & 1x10. Maybe even just add in a couple of cheap units to hold objectives? I'm at a loss honestly. Not a fan of the older models like warriors/thunderers/quarrellers/etc. But I love heavy shooting armies.
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Really love the report especially against the particular Seraphon list that's so popular right now. I may need to rethink the value of units outside of Skryre and try splitting up my 40 gutter runners differently.
The thought of playing/painting that many models is a nightmare to me when my Eshin setup (~120-126 models) is about as much as I can take. Look forward to your further testing and updates.
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24 minutes ago, Entombet said:
We lost 3rd place in last turn of 3rd game by teleporting Seraphons.
Wonderful isn't it? I lost a tournament a couple of months ago due to 20 skinks picking up an objective and running away from all my slow stormfiends the rest of the game. I partially blame myself for not targeting them more (chose to take out all his heroes instead w/ gautfyre skorch) but still.
What did you use for 1k? -
1 hour ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:
I gladly take 3 Magma Cannons. Sure, it's extremely strong, but I bust that list out only when I'm getting ready for a tournament or competing in one.
Ah I see what you mean. I dunno, I may proxy a warp lightning cannon as a deathshrieker a few times to get a feel. I know which of the local players are competitive and which are not, so I tailor lists accordingly. Local tournaments are a different story and I like to bring the best lists possible to see how they fare.
I definitely try to make sure everyone knows that "I'm just trying something.. Sorry ahead of time". Like when I brought gautfyre skorch to test and wiped the floor against all 3 opponents. I felt dirty.
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I suppose so. I did have them considered in a list but I liked the idea of the mortar instead.. Looking at what you're saying, I can see how they're better over a mortar. I run two WLC's in a Skryre list of mine and it does wonders, they also get focused fairly quickly after they get to shoot 3 times from the enginecoven+shooting phase.
You're probably right though... Last thing I was is to be "that guy that brings 3 magma cannons". If I want to be friendly though I usually play my Eshin list. Thanks for convincing me again, hopefully the dual battalion setup works well, though I do still like the idea of K'daai, the amount of shooting + centaurs probably makes them irrelevant.
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I think that's the issue, I'd rather have 2 cannons for 40 more points. The more I look at it the more I enjoy the idea of the mortar, but in practice it probably isn't worth it over a 3rd cannon, even for transportation sake.
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30 minutes ago, Charly2912 said:
I did not try it yet,
but I've got one List in mind that is nearly exactly the same, I just thought of a second Iron Daemon instead of the Mortar. 1 for each Magma to get in good position (having the 24 inch range here all time as long your daemonsmith is alive is great help)
I also already thought of Chronomantic Cogs for the endless spell so that this "fast" chaos dwarf army can become super fast (+2 Move, +2 Charge)
So its automatically + 3 for your bulls on the charge - with 2 starting command points it should be realy hard to fail a charge
But yes the downside of this army is just one spell / unbindI did that initially too, but the battalion requires 3 warmachines on top of an Iron Daemon and since only the one Daemonsmith counts toward the benefit of Infernal engineers for the battalion.. Meh. I am big on having two for the sake of two unbinds, however if my IJ can get away with not needing unbinds, this army probably can too I imagine. Edit: oh I must have read wrong. I thought you said Daemonsmiths, not Iron daemons. I just really love that mortar, I don't know that I would want two iron daemons but this is all me looking at everything on paper for now.
A esthetically I just really enjoy the mortar and what it can potentially do, but it could be better to just have three cannons and a BW + cogs... Or a second Daemonsmith.
I don't know, someone sell me on/talk me out of the mortar and it's shelling capabilities vs another cannon. I've given up hope on the deathshrieker.
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So, for further theory rafting since I've nothing better to do at work. I've modified my K'daai list a bit for a double a battalion list, which of course removes the K'daai for more shooting.
Shar'tor
Taur'ruk
Daemonsmith
3x3 Renders
2 Magma Cannons
1 Mortar
1 iron Daemon
Execution Herd
Artillery Train
60 points of endless spells.. Which I thought maybe balewind + maelstrom for its unbind.
Gimmicky? Probably, but still competitive possibly? Maybe it would work easier in a list with a Blackshard Warhost and 80 ironsworn/Fireglaives? On paper I still debate the mortar.. I try to compare to poisoned wind mortars but it's cost is difficult to justify, but it being able to sit on the table edge and lob shooting across the whole table sounds fun.
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Good point. Most armies locally are LoN/FEC, stormcast, Sylvaneth, DoK so it's a mixed bag. Guess I'll just have to experiment but I'm pretty excited to see how they perform.
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Yeah, I can see it being great for them. Unfortunately I'm way too into the idea of a fast moving elite army with some artillery than any units of ironsworn. That's why I've been debating dropping the K'daai for a few units to screen the artillery but unsure if it's worth it. I imagine the artillery will get focused down regardless and the K'daai seem very good with the run+charge to hit the flanks of squishy heros and shooting units. While the centaurs barrel through the front.
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23 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:
It's nice that we get ash storm and fireball so both will be useful even if there are no endless spells or realm spells.
True. I had considered cogs but I would have to drop something (another Daemonsmith?) to fit it in properly but only being able to cast one endless spell per turn would be troublesome to only having 1 wizard.
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17 minutes ago, Blackspine said:
Why the two demonsmiths?
Magic is heavy this edition, I figured one to babysit the artillery on a balewind and another as just a generic wizard wherever its needed, unless those 100 points could be better spent elsewhere. So far I've found that I really need the unbind rolls.
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19 hours ago, Blackspine said:
I love having a balanced army, and after running Nurgle/Chaos for two years, this is making me excited. (not in that way. get your head out of gutter...) Having access to some truly amazing elite killers, cheap yet effective infantry, medium & long range shooting makes me think this is a great balanced list. There's no true "killer/ OP" unit (not in my mind) but combined, they all wear away and soften for the hammer blow.
I've kind of been thinking the same way so I changed the list a little differently. Artillery won't have any screening support, but the idea is to hit hard and fast enough to not have to worry about it. Of course deepstriking units will be the biggest threat, so I could drop the K'daai for 1x20 and 1x10 or some other variation of ironsworn instead but.. I'm not sure.
Shar'tor
Taur'ruk
2x Daemonsmiths
3x3 Bull Centaur Renders
2x3 K'Daai
2 Magma Cannons
1 Deathshrieker
Execution Herd
Balewind
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7 hours ago, NemoVonUtopia said:
Deathshreikers are good but can be inconsistent. Going with only magma cannons is probably the most ideal although deathshreikers have longer range and ignore line of sight which is nice. Venomous Wargaming on YouTube has a battlereport of 2nd edition chaos dwarfs that might give you an idea on how the artillery performs.
Ironsworn are not more survivable than fireglaives. I ment that either would add to your model count and allow you to spread out a bit more. As much as I like ironsworn, it's probably better to use fireglaives instead because they are more versatile.
Awesome, I will definitely give that a watch to get a better impression. Coming from Skaven (Skryre/Eshin mostly) I like the magma cannon as it's identical to the WLC and with a smith, has the same range, and not being affected by Look out, sir is nice. At first glance I just like the Deathshreiker as an answer to horde units such as the DoK/Death players in my area.
7 hours ago, Blackspine said:Fireglaives are no doubt, great.
But to hold objectives AND fill out the battleline, Ironsworn are great. They hit more reliably, and if coupled with the Castellan, hit/wound 3/3 and rend one. That's phenomenal. They're one of the cheaper battle lines, most durable of the cheap battle lines, and have a phenomenal cost for 30 man units (240!)There's finite turns in the game. You keep a wall of ironsworn in the way, and you can ensure that your FG's can move and shoot freely. More importantly, they can shoot what they want, not just what is within 3" of them.
They'll grind better on the opponents turn, ensuring that you can win or cost them dearly in the 'battle of attrition'.
Good thing we have tons of shooting to back them up.
I see what you mean, and that would probably be best if I ran more of them, but I am primarily going for a list involving fast/hard hitting/elite units with some artillery/smaller shooting units so I figured the fireglaives would serve that purpose well enough and didn't plan to go full horde mode with multiple units of infernal guard. If I end up dumping K'daai, I may bring a unit to screen the extra artillery I would bring as well.
The idea of this army is really one of my favorites so far...pretty excited to get it started eventually, although the price tag is...yeah. I appreciate all the help!
AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Oh, they definitely get targeted after people see what they can do. Most people have caught on to and focus them as much as they can, but the only thing that I've ever had an issue with is shooting, however there are not very many shooting armies in my area that I've ran into.
The movement can be an issue against magic heavy or shooting armies like I stated above, but overall I tend to have enough wizards for dispels. Honestly, that 60 points that I play around with for either a CP or packmaster can easily be used to bring cogs for some extra movement. Maybe even a palisade+other spells to block off a sight-line which could be useful for getting to an objective/flanking easier and can be combined with shackles, or a maelstrom for even more unbinds.
I've had a cannon blow up after the first shot twice before (which is one reason I like bringing 2). I just tend to roll 5's and 6's for things that I shouldn't, like battleshock and cannon shots. With the amount of summoning/death/hero heavy armies that seem to be around locally, having all the MW output from cannons or spells has been the key to crippling all of them early on, before they can summon or buff up units properly.