Gwendar
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Posts posted by Gwendar
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On 9/11/2018 at 10:24 AM, PJetski said:
Very.
Thunderquake Starhost is one of the best lists in the game.
How about a Firelance+Thunderquake? I have someone just getting into AoS and we came up with this. He doesn't want a horde army nor has much interest in summoning a bunch of models in that he doesn't have:
Allegiance: Seraphon
Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
Units
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
1 x Razordons (40)
3 x Kroxigor (160)
Behemoths
Troglodon (160)
Bastiladon (280)
Bastiladon (280)
Battalions
Firelance Starhost (150)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2 -
1 hour ago, adreal said:
Well the battalion is pure shooting (apart from the cav units), but I need something to take early objectives so I can get points on the board, plus it's nice to actually deploy things.
True, ever thought of trying it out without a battalion? I posted a list suggestion above and I've been really curious to run it and continually move out of range of things to whittle it down with the high body/shooting count.
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23 minutes ago, adreal said:
So last night I tried a battalion list with two extra squads of eternal guard against a blades of khorne list, managed to get the win because I could hold objectives in turn 1 with my eternal guard, so my 30 sisters of the watch and 20 glade guard could be aggressive.
Also 3 waywatchers is really good
No more pure shooting lists then eh? I've thought of adding in eternal guard but..I don't know if I really want another "gunline" style army utilizing them + sotw. The EQ always seem to do their job nicely from what I've seen.
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Hmm, lots of debate about not running ironfist or ironfist+bloodtoofs. I may have to try a few games without them and bring along a bit more units, but I really enjoy that movement increase for getting to objectives quickly and taking cover from shooting since the allegiance is unreliable. Not to mention the 1 drop, extra CP and artefacts.
I swore off of using Ardboys, but I have recently begun changing my mind. If only taking 20, are they best used as 1x20 or 2x10 for coverage and using as many shields as possible+dual choppas? The rest of the list is pretty standard, 2x5 brutes and 1 unit of gruntas. 20 wounds per 10 seem like more than enough to hold something up for the small brute units to smash into, but I haven't been playing around with IJ as of late so I'm a little rusty on their tactics...hence why I bring both battalions and suicide bomb the cabbage into combat before anything else is even close.
Are cogs still pretty much an auto-include regardless of playing with Ironfist or not? -
1 minute ago, Pangu said:
I had to double check to see which thread i was reading. I thought i had somehow misclicked into the skaven thread by accident...
Yeah...got a little carried away.
To get back on track, I am really looking forward to start into these guys at some point. Brayherd was what I initially planned to get into until I heard they were much older and not doing so hot. Luckily, I really prefer elite armies so now being able to easily combine Thunderscorn and Warherd makes me pretty excited to get started on them eventually. Then again I have 2-3 others I wanted to get started on as well and not enough paychecks. -
True, they do prefer to be in 30's, but even in 10's, not moving + general buff they are still at 3's and 2's and I now have 3 Long Rifles instead of 1. I mean if I wanted, I could just take out the guard altogether and go completely into shooting, but I'm already doing that with my Wanderers army and not sure I want that again. I'm really looking for a "Hold the line" style army. Free People allegiance would be best for that thanks to Great Companies, but again, I then miss out on 3-4 pieces of artillery and 2 tanks, so.
I may just get everything needed and play around with 3x10 or 1x30 along with 60 guard and see how it works out. I think the main idea here is really just to park guard on an obj with handgunners behind, with artillery in range of everything to whittle away at units going towards said obj's (not hard with 36" range) and tanks as well...tanks. I'm also justifying potentially running one side lighter than the rest (so one side of the board heavy with guard and 1x30 handgunners while the other is just a tank+guard unit?)
So many possibilities. -
56 minutes ago, Nikobot said:
Oh ye of little faith, and this from a Skaven player!
I strongly disagree though, Skaven will "eventually" get separate tomes for 1 or more clans.
You have dwarves, dark elves, wood elves which were all similar size armies as Skaven in terms of unit numbers.
from that you got Kharadrons and Fyreslayers, DoK and Sylvaneth. All spin-off tomes that expanded the previous army. since then we have seen 2 unifying tomes which are starting to look like a great idea, and we got LoN and Nighthaunt. It seems to be very well received.
In Skaven you have one of the few unique IP's GW have created and seem to be going down the path of protecting more and more.
To me they are ripe for LoN-style unifying tome and then Nighthaunt-style sub-tomes that will expand the model/unit range.Lastly, the IP is just damn cool, everyone likes the rats even if they dont play them.
Skryre are just that crazy-cool with soooo much scope for development. The same goes for the others, the fluff is just a good foundation.I see what you are saying, and we definitely need the unifying tome before anything else, from there I am fine with branching off but only if we get a little bit of something at first from that. I know Skaven are a unique and popular enough IP that they wouldn't get squatted, I think we're all just a little impatient at this point for something.
I could easily see a bigger expansion on Eshin more than anything, or even Skurvy to create something "new".-
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11 minutes ago, Kevlar1972 said:
I'm just saying, the way the clans are currently fractured it makes no sense for them not to have marks along the lines of now everything else in grand alliance chaos. Since demons, mortals, and beasts are all split, but unified through marks, skaven are the odd man out. Either unify the clans or give them all marks, since none of the clans really work alone now. Most skaven have to use GA:Chaos outside the cheesy skryre tunnel list.
There's no need for chaos marks, and lore-wise I don't think it would make too much sense.
They really just need to be put together to mix and match (along with updated rules/models for some things) in a "Children of the Horned Rat" type of deal, exactly like what they are doing with "Beasts of Chaos", like you were saying. It's either that or they get separate tomes, which won't happen.-
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2 hours ago, Nevar said:
the tanks -are- the front line.
I mean, it worked for the Germans for awhile, so it will surely work with their Empire cousins, right?
I'll definitely see what happens with 2 tanks, especially since the griffon general is less useful for his buffs and the whole point is to go shooting heavy anyway. This is more of a fun list that will surprise me if I win, but not disappoint me when I take a loss. I think I am just stuck on the battleline. There's a few ideas I'm tossing around with competitiveness in mind, either:- 2x20 Guard & 3x10 Handgunners
- 2x20 Guard & 1x30 Handgunners
- Drop a ballista, 3x20 Guard and 3x10 Handgunners
I'm gravitating towards the last one in order to provide myself with 3 solid lines for each section of the board/objectives with the general being in range of at least one of these group to support and having 1 less ballista for a more solid core seems like a good tradeoff. I face similar defensive armies/players locally and my heavy shooting Skryre lists have done decently up until recently (shoot away until they get close and finish them off with your average CC output), but even this has a little more push to it than those do so this should work out better.
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9 hours ago, Origin said:
@Gwendar I'm all for dropping the battalion, the nomad prince is more survivable now than he was is AoS1. Give him the shawl and bubble wrap him and he is pretty hard to shift. Or even give him Mystwalker considering Stalker basically useless. But for me the changes to realm wanderers from all units to one is the hammer blow. A canny opponent can box you out range from anything significant on your turn 1 drop. With the change to one unit per turn I feel that the focus on a unit big unit of sisters is the way to go. Bounce those girls around for max dakka, everything else can move or just park up. All in all AoS2 hit us with the nerf bat.
@GM_Monkey I see all of these points from you and Origin, I guess that's where I'm stuck. When it comes to a pure shooting army (I'm not overly worried about winning every game, I have other armies for competitive play, but definitely want to do decently with Wanderers and not get absolutely ran through every game) is it just better at this point to run something more like this without the battalion? Having the 1 drop is valuable, but anyone with have a brain can box you out since the deployment radius from the table edge is so restrictive. I view the battalion mostly as beneficial for the Princes ability but maybe I'm just overselling it?
Allegiance: Wanderers
Waywatcher (120)
- General
- Trait: Stalker of the Hidden Paths/Eagle Eye/Whatever
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Nomad Prince (80)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
- Artefact: Viridescent Shawl
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Otherwise with the battalion I have pretty much the same setup Adreal has been using posted previously, maximizing on SotW.-
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I've seen quite a few people suggesting lately that the battalion isn't worth it due to the ease of the nomad prince being killed (and its 12" activation right doesn't help) and realm wanderers only allowing 1 unit to move per turn after the initial setup of the entire army, possibly putting the whole army in a strange position since everything needs to fit within the table edges and preferably also in range of the princes targeted unit.
Could it possibly be worth it to toss out the unnecessary units and battalion to add in more shooting and just use the standard realm wanderers to teleport a shooting unit around per turn? I still see the benefits, especially when it comes to 1 dropping the army, but I was curious as to everyone else's opinions on the pros/cons.
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Yeah, I think 2 tanks and 4 artillery pieces is good enough for me. I still want some semblance of a frontline. But as far as I know it should work since they have the proper keyword.
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@Ratzinkaiser I find them to be completely useless. Had their movement been a set amount and maybe on top of that roll 2 dice to run it would be fine since their damage output is mediocre at best, even when you take the mortal wounds into consideration. I mean, look at slaanesh seekers with their movement and damage output.
Overall, it's the random movement that really kills them for me, on top of rolling doubles when "running" which allows your opponent to drive it right back into you. Which unlike endless spells, you have no control over. -
6 hours ago, Nevar said:
Any reason you have a general on Griphon instead of a second Steam Tank?
Also, you chose the Helstorm Rockets because they don't need an engineer around I guess?
Not particularly, I guess because he seems more capable in CC and fits in nicely enough thematically, but 2 steam tanks would probably do well enough with the extra ranged damage.
I don't care much for standard cannons and volley guns unreliability to even shoot is scary, so with this I get the benefit of the ordinators +1 to hit for all war machines which helps even more if I get extra shots from Greywater allegiance.
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Planning a few future armies, and I really, really love gunlines/artillery. I've been jumping between using Free Peoples allegiance, but then I limit myself greatly on war machines which is primarily what I want. I've come up with the below list that hopefully works out well enough semi-competitively, locally at least. I'm not looking to sweep tourneys with it of course.
Is it worth it to drop the Ordinator for another 20 guard? With the amount of artillery, he seems almost required, but that 20 guard could fill in gaps in the gun line. Speaking of gun lines, without the benefit of great companies, is it better to just put the handgunners in a block of 30 over 3x10?
Allegiance: Order
Greywater Fastness
Leaders
Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
- General
- Shield & Greathammer
- Trait: Strategic Genius
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- Long Rifle
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- Long Rifle
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- Long Rifle
War Machines
Helstorm Rocket Battery (180)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (180)
Steam Tank (260)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Total: 1940 / 2000-
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Never too many stormfiends! I run the same setup on my 9 and I've always found having 2 units was never enough. Even with 3x3 you have enough points to take the usual setup of wizards and other toys along with 80 clanrats or 40 Gutter Runners in my case.
The damage output is too good to not bring that many from my experience.
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4 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:
Is kinda clunky but the Tank is fast, can pick low wounds heroes ad occupy objectives! Good one!
I've asked before, but how do people feel about gyrobombers/copters for mobility capping units/MW output from bombs? I could see how they're frail, but 160 for 2 seems decent enough to fill out an army.
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I get what you all are saying and I would love if that is case, but I'm just not sure that was intentional, who knows. I feel that after they saw sparks being used effectively with multihit weapons like ratling guns in ghb18, that is the reasoning they re-worded it in a FAQ, although maybe poorly; to prevent a ton of extra damage going through due to how you can choose when you use a spark when it comes to increasing damage.
EX: 4 attacks, only 1 hit and it was a 6. Roll a d6, get a 4, roll 4 wounds and all 4 wound. Disregarding saves, lets say 8 damage inflicted from the 4 wound rolls that got through. You are saying that because those 4 came from 1 attack, that the damage should now be 12 with a spark, rather than (what I assume) 9, correct?
I remain skeptical. I've sent them an email for some clarification, so we will see. -
2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Yeah, but there is no rule stating, that a successful attack can’t have more then one hit or wound role, so in other words it should be possible
and the shock gauntlets ability only says that a to hit of 6 or more will count as d6 hits instead of 1 and not d6 attacks
Sounds like an email to the rules team is in order of no one is certain. I really doubt that's intentional since shock gauntlets can already be quite insane, who knows.
8 minutes ago, ThePie said:Okay, so ive decided of a base with 1 Arch-Warlock & Warlock Engineer and 2x3 storm fiends (3 with warpfire projectors and 3 with shock gauntlets)
Still unsure what i should get with the last 180 pts for my 1000 pts list.
A lightning cannon? Or perhaps a packmaster to further buff shock gauntlets and some rats for screen. Perhaps a poison wind mortar to hold backfield.. difficult choices
I use the exact same setup and go between either a cannon or 15 Gutter Runners and do quite well with either. The lack of bodies for objectives can be troublesome but that's what the GR's are there for. When stormfiends can do so much damage though, it isn't uncommon to completely wipe a unit early on and then catch up/exceed on victory points.
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41 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Yeah but if I understand the rules right, an attack consist of at List a hit Roll and a(or more) woundroll(s),
in other word those 6hits would be a part of the attack.
if you also wound all 6, and he didn’t save any, you would have done a possible 18damage.
I don't know, I feel they faq'd it for a reason as it worked exceptionally well with ratling guns and shock gauntlets respectively. I believe one successful attack means just one hit/wound/save roll. Not d6 worth being part of one "attack" as they are all separate hit\wounds\saves and it's only considered a successful attack when damage is allocated after saves.
I mean, don't get me wrong I hope I'm not correct but that's what makes sense to me.
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5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Yes it is possible
also if you trigger the ability and make 6hits from the one attack, which all of them also wound and go through the armor, you can easily put out an additional 6damage thanks to the warpstone sparks.
How are you getting an extra 6 damage by using a spark? Even if you roll a 6 and turn 1 attack into d6 extra hits, the wording for sparks still seem to imply you can only add 1 damage of a single successful attack. I don't think getting a bunch of extra generated hits necessarily means you get +1 damage for each of those, if that makes sense.
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6 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:
I'm not a huge fan of free mortal wounds, I guess. Maybe Gautfyre has just soured me to them.
You're playing Skryre, take what you can get?
Nah, I understand. I don't do gautfyre anymore. I did it in a local tourney a few months back and no one was happy, even though 2 of the games came pretty close. But MW's are definitely what keep you competitve.
Also @RaritanAnon How have the monks been doing? I'm going to be trying 40 Gutter Runners and I wonder how their combat performances compare. I think I'll prefer 3 grinders; doomflayers just aren't consistent enough (same as ratling guns) to make me like them. -
Warpfire throwers are great, assuming you can drill them up with gautfyre or can place them behind a screen of some sort, I wouldn't convert mine unless you take the ends off to put on stormfiends for more projectors.
On the stormfiend subject, I agree and it's why I've decided to chop off the ratling gun bits off my stormfiends and replace them with grinderfists. I rarely pull more than ~3 wounds after saves with ratling guns meanwhile having 1 unit of 3 grinderfists has the possibility of doing ~10 and with so many people using cogs nowadays, there's a good chance you can get +2 to charge.
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Had a quick 1k game yesterday against my own Ironjawz (buddy is still getting his Seraphon built/painted). Played battle for the Pass, which I find works really well for smaller games.
My list:
Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Shock Gauntlets
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Proxied Ratling Guns (I really didn't want to use Warpfire on him, but that was a mistake)
15 x Gutter Runners (180)
- Allies
His list:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Ironfist (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Rd1: We play this scenario lengthways at 1k rather than the normal wide deployment. Unfortunately, I went first which means the Gutter Runners had to come out right away and he left his gore-grunta unit in the backline to keep them off his objective, which they did exceptionally well. Gutter Runner shooting took a couple of wounds off his Megaboss and a unit of brutes, everything else moved onward to the objectives. His turn, he charged my Gutter Runners and proceeded to kill most of them, and I rolled like garbage with the remaining few I had left, did a couple wounds which he saved. After battleshock, I only had 1 left which he proceeded to finish off with an arcane bolt to allow his gore-gruntas to move up. I'm down 1-3
Rd2: He gets the double, so everything gets moved onto the objectives which ends up giving him a pretty substantial lead in the end. My turn, I do some MW's with Warpstorm, but my Engineer decided to kill himself by rolling snake eyes on an empowered warp-lightning cast and my dice decided to roll a 6 on the self-inflicted roll, killing himself; joy. My left side stormfiends (ratling guns) kill 2 brutes and I then decide to charge in with both Stormfiend units. I get some payback as my right side stormfiends (shock gauntlets) charged his Brutes and absolutely deleted them doing 20 damage after saves. The look on my face after I rolled five 6's to hit...I actually felt bad after this and decided to just use clubbing blows from here on out, although I really shouldn't have. This game is very swingy, and I think he realizes that now (he is still somewhat new to the game). I'm down 4-8
Rd3: He wins roll off, charges in his gore-gruntas and to the left side stormfiends and ends up killing all of them after combat with me only killing 2 brutes. My turn I get Warpstorm off, however I rolled two 1's to damage his megaboss and gore-grunta unit, and only do 1 MW to his remaining brute on the left side. mystic shield on the stormfiends. Right side objective successfully capped, I charge his Megaboss and get him down to 3 wounds, he hits back exceptionally well and kills 1 1/2 stormfiends. I'm down 7-11
Rd4: He wins roll off again, charges his gore-gruntas into my arch-warlock, killing him and bringing me down to 1 stormfiend left with his megaboss ~2 wounds left. I call it there ending with a loss at 10-14
Takeaways: Hard to say honestly as I think most of my choices were based on him being a newer player and me not wanting to game anything too heavily. He's a co-worker that is just getting into it but has played some miniatures/wargames in the past so he thinks about the tactics of his play more than the average new player, so I probably should've just went all out like using warpfire instead of ratling guns, or continuing to use shock gauntlets after the brute unit deletion. He did say he wanted more of a challenge after all.
If I had to give any criticism on my part, I probably should've put the Gutter Runners elsewhere. I depend on them too heavily to do anything relevant and after losing a few, they crumble to battleshock like any other Skaven unit since they are too far away for IP. I do still intend to try using 2x20 of them in the next 2k tourney, but I think for the next 1k game I may try dropping the engineer, throwing in a warp-grinder team + 40 clanrats.
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AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion
in Seraphon
Posted · Edited by Gwendar
I thought not. I think he is really just looking for value, and he already bought a SC box. Overall he wants a list of big dino's that can do decently, so Thunderquake seemed to fit the bill. I guess I really only looked at the Engine in terms of it's summoning ability, not so much everything else it can potentially do.
Granted he could buy 2 boxes and have some left over models to summon in. How about running something more like this then? (I didn't realize that thunderquake needed only 1 Kroxigor unit OR 1 salamander/razordon + handlers, so I took those out):
Allegiance: Seraphon
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Engine of the Gods (220)
- Artefact: Coronal Shield
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
3 x Kroxigor (160)
- 1x Moonhammers
Bastiladon (280)
Stegadon (220)
Firelance Starhost (150)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)
Dracothion's Tail (80)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Or hey, maybe he just give up that battalions and just fit in as many big dino's as possible, but then the cost will start to go up. This is more or less meant to be the most competitive/cost effective way of getting 2k. With 2 SC boxes, he will have warriors and various other things to summon in as needed.