Malakree
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Posts posted by Malakree
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6 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:
I find it interesting that the primary choice is always the Rock Lobber. Is it mainly the cost? Or is it the combination of cost, flat 3 damage, and potential to double fire? I ask because all 3 of the artillery choices seem useful and with their own advantages & uses, but the rock lobber is the cheapest and seems to be in most lists that I see.
I believe @Sangfroid prefers the Spear Chukkas and I know that @Chris Tomlin used to run them.
My personal preference for the Rock Lobbers comes from the combination of reduced cost, indirect fire and guaranteed damage.
If I had to guess I think the cost is the big swaying factor in their lists at the moment, 2 rock lobbers saves you 40 points. That lets you "upgrade" a unit of 3 GG's to a unit of 5 Brutes while at 3 Spear Chukkas it costs only 40 points to put 4 rock lobbers. I did a bit of math, the spear chukkas are slightly better in terms of killing heroes/monsters, the indirect fire of Rock lobbers means the opponent can't hide key support pieces out of LoS. Since our primary use for Artillery is to snipe out those support pieces anything which reduces his counter play is great for us, while on the other side if you have 20 Brutes you don't really need something to kill monsters for you. When you then factor in the points difference that's where my preference comes from.
Honestly it IS a preference though. In the list above if Chris swapped to spear chukkas he's either got to make 60 points (for 3) or spend 60 points (for 2) both of which is super awkward for Ironjawz to do, hence the rock lobbers just fit way more snugly into the list.
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On 27/03/2018 at 10:17 AM, Chris Tomlin said:
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Rock LobberSeems like these are just key for us, having no shooting vs the 3/4 rock lobbers just does so much. Would you favour 4 or the allied Fungoid Cave Shaman? Personally I don't mind the Weirdnob, though that's probably because I run the 30 Ardboys block.
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1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said:
One of my new hobby rules is no more late cramming for tournaments though.
I did that for blood and glory, still ended up short 2 GG's. Since then I operate on "what models are completed when I write/submit the list" rather than trying to rush paint. Helps that I've been spending the last 3 months on the Maw-Krusha, my god he's a stunning model but such a huge ******...
Really looking into getting the rock lobbers myself, just the lack of threat range is so brutal
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14 hours ago, Ockbald said:
That is a wonderful idea actually!
Bulking up shouldn't be a problem, I just add some debris inside the "mouth" on the body of the mini.
However, is there some ideas for the feet? Where would they go on the model? For the arms/hand I was thinking of wrecking balls, similar to Night Goblin's fanatic weapons. I mean this is going into a Moonclan/grot army list after all if I ever pick it up ( i have some Gobbos mounted on spiders already).For this I would actually look at it from a "lore" perspective to work out how you want to go to it rather than a model equivalency.
QuoteWhen greenskins gather for war, their Shamans build mighty idols of Gorkamorka. Some are formed from the rubble of the Orruks’ recent conquests, mortared with noxious Squiggoth dung. Others are built using strange stone quarried in the deep places of the realms, or even incorporate volatile shards of realmstone or shadeglass within their lumpen forms. Daubed with crude sigils, lit by roaring bonfires, the idols sit silent and menacing as the Shamans dance around them and the tribes bellow their war chants. The idols soak up ever more Waaagh! energy until at last the innate magicks of the greenskins react spontaneously with those of the realms themselves.
So basically imagine a bunch of crazed Greenskin shamans building up a giant pile as an effigy of Gorkamorka and then suddenly the thing wakes up, stands up and starts to go on a rampage.
That's the Aesthetic you're going for and there is a bunch of flexibility in it I feel. Definitely going to require a bunch of work but get it right and it'll look super cool.
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5 hours ago, Ockbald said:
Hello there, sorry for reviving this month old topic, but I feel it's not a question big enough to create a new one from scratch.
This old piece of scenery from Battle of the Skull Pass is very cheap on my local eBay.
I am not sure if it would work as an alternative model? Is the size not good enough? It clearly has no feet to stomp too.
I'm second guessing myself here. Anyone has an opinion on this particular model?
It would be a conversion job rather than a proxy. The bad moon symbol on the top would work wonderfully as the "face" and you have a solid start to the body. You would want to add feet, arms and maybe bulk out the body a bit but it could be a very cool and unique looking Idol.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-170x105mm-Oval-Base
That's the base size you would need to put it on in the end.
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Looking cool, only thing for me is the Base looks incomplete.
Maybe try some grass tufts you can make look frozen or something to just add that bit extra to the large grey patch?
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4 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:
At the end of the day, it all relies on the player and the list I feel.
Sorry if it didn't come off like that but I was agreeing with you ? I was trying to add some of my personal experience and opinion to your "to fist or not to fist"(!)
Also yes I love the new IJ alleigance. I think the free charge is the huge weakness of it but even then we could maybe use it to try for the mythical 8"+ from the ggs.
Do love the battle reps, always useful to see how others are faring!
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40 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:
Appreciate it. I hope this helps more Ironjawz's players in 2018. The list is well balanced, but there are other combos as well that can work as well (Spear Chukkas or Lobbas). I think the biggest difference for IJ now is knowing we don't need the Ironfist to win games or tournaments. The more boyz, the better!
I think it's entirely dependent on what units you're running. I played B&G without it then two recent ones with it and had two thoughts about it.
- The reduced drop number is really important. Even shaving only 2 drops (I had 3 battleline) meant I got to pick in games I normally wouldn't.
- It massively improved my Ardboyz and Brute mobility, it was alright for the GG's but not amazing.
So as @Chris Tomlin has said the 2 units of 3 GG's help reduce the need for it because they fill the mobility gap. If on the other hand you are running 3 blocks of Brutes then I think the Ironfist is still mandatory, it works out as a 25-150% increase in their speed.
Also the Ironfist does some really funky stuff with lots of IJ heroes.
- Use the ironfist move to reposition so that you can get the destruction move.
- More importantly use the Ironfist to play around the 12" charge bubble for the destruction move. You can pull back an inch or 2 so that you don't have to charge with it etc.
My last game of the 3rd tournament I triggered 3 destruction moves on a unit of GG's, the last of which pushed them into the 12" bubble. Then I pulled a 3 on my ironfist, which combined with the 9" movement allowed me to completely avoid a shield wall he had setup in front of 3 knight-heraldor letting me get my unit of 6 GG's in on them ultimately winning me the game.
I'm definitely enjoying the Ironfist move with my 4 IJ heroes, it lets some stupid stuff happen. The thing that tempts me to drop it is the extra 3 GG's, I think at 9 GG's I would rather have 2 blocks of 6 than a 6 and a 3 with Ironfist.
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13 minutes ago, Lolpatrol said:
What about Doom Divers?
Rock lobbas
- 100 points. This means you can field 4 at 2000pts
- 40" range, no LoS
- 1 attack at 3+(to 5+)/3+/-2/3
- Extra shot on 6+ hit roll in batteries
- +1 vs units of 10 or more.
Doom Divers
- 120 points. This means you can field 3 at 2000pts
- 50" range (to 20"), no LoS
- 1 attack at 3+/3+/-1/d3
- d6 damage in batteries
- On miss 4+ to hit a different unit instead.
So the important differences are
- 40 points spare per 2 rock lobbas, or 40 points more for the 4th rock lobba.
- 1 extra Rend for Rock Lobba, Flat 3 damage vs d6
- Extra shot on a roll of 6+ (5+ vs units of 10 or more).
- No miss redirect on a 4+
Assuming optimal conditions, your doom diver hits on a 3+. This means that the 4+ to redirect is functionally a "hit" on a 2+ (D6 roll of 1 = 1-3, D6 roll of 2 = 4-6. 3+ is a hit). Hence it's fair to say doom divers generically "hit on a 2+" provided you don't care about who you hit.
For Character sniping- Both hit on a 3+
- The Rocklobba has an extra rend
- Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6
- Extra shot on 6+ to hit
The important thing to note here is that most characters are 5/6 wounds, so 2 hits from a rock lobba will kill them guaranteed. On the other hand the doom diver has a 1/5 or 1/6 chance to instikill them but has approximately the same chance to not kill them in 2 shots. When you add in the extra rend, potential second shot and 20 point cost reduction I feel for character sniping the rock lobba is the better choice.
For hitting Unit Blocks
- Both hit on a 2+ (see above for doomdiver)
- Rocklobba has an extra rend
- Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6
- Extra shot on 5+ to hit
In this case the consistency of the damage is less relevant. The extra rend is going to be quite important vs some armies, particularly ones with rerollable saves. The extra shot on a 5+ is also amazingly nice. In this situation the two are more or less equivalent, there are a couple of reasons for this. Against small elite units the rock lobba becomes less effective but the extra rend is much nicer, against large chaff units the rock lobba becomes more effective but the rend becomes potentially less useful. In both situations the damage range of the doom diver is probably far more useful than the flat damage.
- Against anything with negative to hit vs shooting, Nurgle being the obvious choice, the Doom Diver is king. It's Grot-Guided Missile gets better and better as the opponent gets harder to hit while a -1 cripples the rock lobba against small units and -2 against ALL units.
Conclusion
As a character sniping tool, which is what they want to replace the spear chukkas, the rock lobba is better. While for general purposes the two are essentially equivalent. The main thing that puts the rock lobba ahead is the 20 point cost reduction. That has a huge bunch of implications not least is that you can field 4, this gives you 2 batteries instead of 1 and increases your number of shots by 33%.
Hence, Rock Lobba over Doom Diver.
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3 minutes ago, Black_Nexus said:
Gorkamorka’s Blessing
Healing potion
Sidestep
Brutal but Kunnin’
Kunnin’ but brutal
‘Avin a good time
Distraction
Leadin’ by ExampleI had all of these 8 and dual strike/Scrag em, which are explained above. That said against the undead I really would have loved confusion, it's so key to get on the warden and he can block it off from you.
6 minutes ago, Black_Nexus said:Great Fortitude
‘Ard Head
Waaagh!
Crush and Cleave
Brutal Swing
‘Eadbutt
UnkillableAgain I ran these 7, I almost ran the basha/hakka get +1 dice if they charge. Their abilities and the fact they inspire to 1/3/2 means they can become monsters in their own right. Hackka getting cleave on a crit is brutal on 1/4/2.
There's also an upgrade card which is helpful whispers - "if this fighter treats (1 support) as a success if they are unsupported" not sure on the exact wording but it's a great neutral for us because all our inspired fighters are so solid. Again on had 2 floating upgrades which were meh.
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2 hours ago, Killax said:
Great Fortitude
Confusion
Healing Potion
SidestepI used all of these, healing potion is fantastic. I'd say autoinclude.
2 hours ago, Black_Nexus said:Hold objectives early for early glory, fight and try to force the enemy into his own board
There are so many good objectives, especially for early scoring, that I think they are unnecessary, they also detract from your primary goal of moving forward/supporting all your fighters. For early objectives you've got deres more of us, biggest and da best. Good scrap
Plant the banner - "score in an end phase if your leader controls an objective I'm the enemy territory."
A - "score immediately if 3 of your fighters make a charge action."
- "score this in an end phase if each of your your remaining fighters 2+ has attacked a different enemy fighter this phase, 2 glory"
Swift advance - "score this in an end phase of all of your remaining fighters are in enemy territory"
- "Score this in an end phase if each of your remaining fighters, 3+ is adjacent to an enemy fighter" 2 glory
There is also a very cool objective which combos with 1 (2) potential ploys. The cards read
- "score this immediately if one of your fighters attacks with support from 2+ more fighters than your opponent"
Scrag em and dual strike - "for the next attack each of your fighters counts as 2 fighters for support"
Before you say anything, yes this does work, I had it FAQ by the guy who designed the game before I handed my list in!
So you can see there really is no need for 1-5 in your objectives deck. That's 9 cards for your deck all of which are pretty easy to score running at 1/2 glory each. This let's you play the objective game of messing with your opponents ability to cap while leaving you free of the same trap.
I loved my 2 of my final 3 which I would keep
Conquest - "score in 3rd end phase if all your surviving fighters are in enemy territory.
- "score this if you scored 2+ other objective cards this round".
The final card is my question. There's no obvious one I could find and you probably want a 3rd end phase big scorer. Possibly ard as iron for an opponent who is playing really defensive.
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So I played ironskulls boyz at the bad dice tournament on Friday. Managed to finish in 6th, don't remember my deck list but can find out next week if people are intrested.
I only had about 30mins to build the deck so there is easily room for refinement.
The warband is hyper aggressive with a lot of amazing warband specific cards. You are very dependent on both board setup, you want to have as many linking hexes as possible, and on objective placement. Since you generally won't have the 1-5 cards you want to use your first placement in your opponents half to block good placement for him and put it towards the front of his board. Plant the banner let's you score 1 if gurzag holds a point in the enemy territory so a nice east score is great and it denies your opponent good defensive objectives to.
The deck itself is very aggressive but with great tricks. In the poly phase you can trigger a free attack, get a move off that attack and even trigger charges. This let's you act out of sequence a lot.
Only gurzag is good uninspired but with 4 health the others inspire easily. Once they do there is no bad fighter.
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10 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:
Brutes are literally the answer to every question posed in AoS, wonder if a list with 40 in might get branded a bit overkill....
Allegiance: Destruction
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Battleline
15 x Orruk Brutes (540)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Reinforcement Points (0)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
WAAAGH!!!
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3 hours ago, Aginor said:
It not being effective of course is no reason to not fix it. An ability that doesn't leave the opponent even a chance to react is not something desirable either. Unfortunately there are quite some abilites in the game that do exactly that. The scoring point issue is just the icing on the cake, because who can survive a triple turn?
Definitely needs fixing, that's a no brainer, I still don't see it as so unique in how it is able to break the game.
The amount of game breaking stuff in AoS is just too big for that.But then again that's my personal opinion on it.
I think the complaint largely revolves around it scoring multiple times in a turn.
If your opponent takes first turn, grabs 3 objectives, of 4, scores 3 then gets a 2nd turn, scores 3 again, takes a 3rd turn and scores another 3.
At that point you start YOUR first turn and it's 9-0 on points. You get 5 points for seizing objectives so if you sieze on your turn 1 it's now 9-5. For the next 4 turns you score 3 and he scores 1.
So you get 12 he gets 4, the score at the end of turn 5 is 13-17.
That means there's 4 points in it, ie. If it takes you till turn 2 to seize or he manages to reclaim you lose.
All of this assumes you come out of the first tripple turn in enough of a shape to completely DOMINATE the rest of the game.
Considering all the advantages gained from just having an extra turn being able to score multiple times in a round is overwhelming.
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24 minutes ago, Aginor said:
Correct. I'd still prefer solutions not tailor-made for just ONE problem. So the solution does not belong onto the EotG warscroll but into the core rules and/or the battleplans
I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise as that prevents the problem from occurring in any other situation as well.
One of the problems is that there is a limited amount of time the player testers have and their going to be limited in perspectives and thought patterns. It's like in wow, the player base puts in more playtime in the first day than they can in months.
It's why iterative game design works, because they design the weirdfist, we find all the problems with it and discard it as useless then we all say "if only it did X" suggest it to them and they have a variety of options they could potentially choose from while not having to commit their limited resources to that ONE problem.
The interaction between eotg and points battles is Super niche. As you said you could play over a hundred games and never have it happen. That's one interaction of one model out of thousands.
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4 minutes ago, Aginor said:
I somewhat agree, but then there are other battleplans massively favouring some armies that can outright win the game if they go first (there is that new one with the terrain breaking off for example, forgot its name). Those also eliminate the chance to even score an objective point.
...in the end I think for me it comes down to:
-> yes, it is a bit broken, but it is quite unlikely to happen
-> other stuff is just as broken but also just as unlikely to happen
-> yet other stuff is just as broken or more, and has to get fixed much more urgently since it breaks game balance....also I think that's really my main gripe with AoS. There is no real balance. It is getting better, it definitely is, but it is still bad, and that makes me
angrysad.Given that the fix is so easy and doesn't impact the army in any other way it's an easy and obvious solution.
Something else is just as exploitive in a different scenario isn't an excuse to fix this exploit.
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Yeah it should be that you score and claim objectives at the end of your first turn in any given battle round.
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13 minutes ago, Banglesprout said:
I totally agree on the rule interpretation and it not being cheesy regarding pile ins.
On a slight side track though the tactical removal of casualties is never something that's sat right with me - again I agree that it's totally legitimate, but for me it just breaks the immersion if that's the right word. It just doesn't make much sense.
I think it'd be a nice improvement if the rule was to remove the model(s) closest to the attacking model(s).
Look at it like this, a guy on the front row is always the one killed.
Does the next rank step up, if yes then the model at the back is removed, if no the one at the front.
Jesus those ardboyz look like ardwork, mine takes a while to do but I can't imagine it's anything close to yours...
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I really want to see you do a doom diver variant like your spear chukkas, thinking a one of your orruks holding a grot like a javelin
those would look hillarious!
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The other option is to drop one unit of piggies and put in a Megaboss on foot !
Try to abuse that reroll 1s
those would look hillarious!
The Black Sunz - Ironjawz - Update 28/02 - PICS! Whole new army painted!!
in Destruction
Posted
I don't think they really paid that much close attention to destruction tbh. It was probably to stop us from taking 4 Spear Chukkas as allies.