Malakree
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Posts posted by Malakree
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11 minutes ago, Lucyferiusz said:
Why pair of Brute Choppas instead of Jagged Gore-hackas? They have better rend and reach.
Because I'm lazy and didn't bother to change them on warscroll builder.
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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:
Prob he thought it was like redeploy and unleash hell, as faq you cant do it. Idk guys 😀
QuoteYou can make a D6" move with the unit that receives the command, but it must finish the move more than 3" from all enemy units and cannot shoot later in the turn
Redeploy explicitly states that the unit cannot shoot later in the turn. So they can receive the CA (as per the FAQ) but then cannot shoot.
There are no such restrictions around charging.
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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys today a strange thing happened. My opponent move stormstrike chariot 3" of my maw crusha. I redeploy 4" . He tryed to charge and miss. Can I try to charge even if I used redeploy? My oppo said not.. what do you think?
Why would you not be able to charge, there are no restrictions on redeploy which would stop you..?
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Personally I view big Waaagh as the magic orientated faction which benefits from cross buffing abilities.
Something like this would be my starting point.
Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (300)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)
Wardokk (80)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (495)
- Chompas
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 163
Drops: 9
It gives you actual magical might when you get the +1cast. Two big units of brutes which love +1/+1 and hand of gork on 30 savage orruks is as hilarious as it is rude.
Between the various different clans the magical prowess really isn't to be underestimated.
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3 hours ago, broche said:
I think at this point further discussion on the subject is pointless. Current concensus seem to be that it work on 3 units. Could change with the FAQ.
To give my opinion on each of them.
All out attack, defence, inspiring presence, snb and rally all just work when triggered.
Overwatch works on multiple units but they must target the charging unit. Imo they ALSO must be within 9".
Redeploy works but can only target units that are within 9" of the enemy unit which triggered it.
The 6" run applies to 3 units in range but doing so declares that all 3 will run.
The charge reroll can target 2 additional units when it is first triggered but you have to choose it then. Having done so you don't need to reroll as it says you "can" reroll the charge.
EDIT: This is nothing to do with literal definitions of the rules and more my expectations of how TOs will rule in tournaments.
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I've already been to an event and nobody complained about me using AoA and AoD on 3 units.
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17 minutes ago, Vastianos said:
Question here. I would love to add a rogue idol for my list building options, but find the forgeworld model too goofy for my tastes. Many artists offer proxies that look much better or could easily be converted.
My question is, would a proxy of a forgeworld model be tournament legal?
As @Shirtripper said most independent lgs wont care to much. For GW tournaments or those very closely affiliated your best bet would be to either convert a different model you like into a rogue idol or get someone else to do it if your conversion skills aren't up to it. One of the spirits of the mountain or treelord possibly even a mega if you do it well? Not sure what would be the appropriate size.
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32 minutes ago, broche said:
Hum that is actually a pretty good idea i didn't think that Megaboss with arcane tome could take the trait actually. You get potent wizard that can fight I like it.
Yeah and one who you don't mind having in the middle of your army unlike a weirdnob or warchanter.
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10 minutes ago, broche said:
What do you guys think of the 16'' bubble +1 to wound spell? Could be taken with the trait that give +X to cast since Megaboss trait are not that great anymore.
I seriously considered it but the weirdnob is just so questionable and I wouldn't want to risk an MK without a ward save, might actually be a solid choice on a footboss with arcane tome. Maybe something like this...
SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Megaboss (140)*
- General
- Command Trait: Touched by the Waaagh!
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord
Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147
Drops: 5 -
7 minutes ago, glytch said:
I run a fungoid, he is a no-brainer with the CP needs. He is the mystic shield caster. My list is something like that.
I really thought about it but I'm not sure I can cut down to that few bodies...whenever I get the next 15 Brutes finished I'm guna try a single cabbage list which I think has space for one.
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12 minutes ago, dnusha said:
@Malakree wow I thought legion of blood would destroy ardboys with their low bravery.
What are your thoughts on picking a second Mount Trait as an Enhancement since Core Rules have been FAQed?
I just used IP every turn to ignore battleshock on 3 units, completely negated the issue.
Problem with the double mount trait is that it's worse than the 2nd artefact. So unless you are taking 2 warlord/entourage you can't get it, that means you're spending ~1.4k points on heroes though which is sacrificing a lot of board presence for it.
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6 hours ago, Arkahn said:
@Malakreeeach 3 Gruntas as duo with a MK ? While you let Ardboyz behind ?
And how bloodtoofs perform with just 2x3 gruntas ?
I played it slow pushing the ardboys forward not going for the alpha.
Bloodtoofs was there to make them battleline, wasn't terrible but only used it once haha.
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Also played a game tonight at club. I was running this list.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (480)**
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Orruk Ardboys (480)**
- Reinforced x 2
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas
Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment
Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Total: 2450 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
Drops: 5
He was legion of blood with nefrata. The main goal was to test the units of 15 ardboys, holy gods are they good. I deployed the units such that the boss and a banner were actually at the back of the unit so they would be 3" away from anything which charged. Managed to rally twice, once for 6 ardboys the other for 7. Was absolutely disgusting and it was turn 4 before he managed to kill either unit which let me dominate the board by tying him down in combat while the cabbages had free reign, was weird to outlast a death army...
I also completely forgot to use either the warlord cp or the general command trait 😅
The 10 Brutes really were overkill and I much prefer this list to the previous, you just don't need the 3rd hammer with 2 cabbages.
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1 hour ago, Beliman said:
Not sure if it's intended and how easy it will be to do that trick, but some people is trying to use a pseudo-attack first with Mighty Destroyers that seesm totally legal at the moment:
- Charge using Mighty Destroyer with Big MawCrusha (that's the hard part of the strategy).
- Retreat in you movement phase to be 3.1" from the enemy.
- Pile In in the combat phase and attack the enemy.
Unless the enemy have an abilility to activate and Pile In 6", the Ironjawz player is going to attack first.
It's been legal for ages. Just have to be careful of a redeploy on the retreat.
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7 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys a rule question. With my megaboss ability to pick 2 units instead of 1 when I use a command point for a command ability, can I give to 2 units like all out attack or all out defence? Thx all
Yes.
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2 hours ago, Orkmann said:
It's not only about the alpha, gruntas are great for trading/skirmishing due to their speed. For instance in situations when some chaff is holding an objective which you need to take but you also know that whoever goes there will be dead in your opponents turn / or you simply not ready to fully commit.
This is very much up to your playstyle, but running two cabbages feels like I'm too thin on the ground. Funnily this is exactly the same debate we used to have around the old book, only difference is that now the choice is btw single or double cabbage instead of taking one or none 🙂.
My point being that you hit them hard and fast then use the bloodtoofs to mess up their ability to respond properly. Everything after this assumes you are NOT bloodtoofs since if you are GGs trump everything.
The double cabbage being thin on the ground is why I would run it with lots of ardboys rather than with a block of brutes. You simply don't need the 3 hammers and can't even support them properly with your WCs. What you need is the ability to be able to pick your moment rather than being forced to act straight away, for that ardboys are and always will be your best option.
SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)**
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)**
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**
Endless Spells & Invocations
Prismatic Palisade (40)
Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Wounds: 134
Drops: 4Something like this gives you the presence to be able to push forward onto the board while threatening counter engages with the MK's even in your opponents turns if they aren't careful. Not only that but the ability to rally the Ardboys back means that half killing a unit is really dangerous for your opponent. If you position a unit of 15 in a T shape it's possible to have the front which are within 3" killed off while the back is now able to rally. Obviously it'll be a little awkward to do properly but the threat of it is massive.
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5 hours ago, Kasper said:
So your point being that Brutes are only good in Choppas then? I feel like this discussion is dishonest and pointless tbh.
I mean, I was pretty clear when I gave my rundown that I think in Bloodtoofs I'd run GG's, in Da Choppas I'd run Brutes and that in Ironsunz I'd run my 2 cabbages with primarily Ardboys.
Personally I don't think you can run 2 cabbages and a unit of 10 Brutes as you have neither the anvil required to pick your moment and the Brutes can't hard initiate like the cabbages meaning you hit in 2 waves. So the only time I'd run a unit of 10 Brutes is if I'm running only a single cabbage in which case I'd be running multiple units in Da Choppas.
The only time you would be comparing vanilla Brutes vs vanilla GG's is in Ironsunz and at that point you're actually looking at counter engage so the anvil becomes way more important, hence Ardboys.
EDIT:
2 hours ago, Orkmann said:In my eyes the main weakness of IJ in AoS2 was the lack rend. The only solution to deal with tanky armies used to be the cabbage with the metalrippa and hero phase fighting (against OBR). These options are gone now, so the extra rend of the brutes comes very handy.
Based on point cost and mathhamer, the gruntas are the most effecient in the army, which makes them a great generalist unit, esp due to their speed. I consider the brutes more of a specialist unit to deal with tanky targets. So in terms of list building, I like to take a unit of 10 brutes, arboyz to fill out the remaining bline slots (in Ironsunz) and as many MSU pigz as possible.
I realise this isn't possible for everyone but I would 100% run a second cabbage before I ran GG's outside of Bloodtoofs and their value in Bloodtoofs comes from the allegiance which lets you go over the top then tie down key enemy targets.
Bloodtoofs Alphastrikes.
Da Choppas does heavy infantry wave.
Ironsunz does counter engage/initiation.It should be pointed out that a lot of my reductionism comes out of the fact that MK's are now so unbelievably good. If you want a generic hammer then you take an MK over everything else, I would seriously consider fielding 3 in a tournament for a fun list which isn't 100% gimped.
EDIT2:
SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 8-
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1 hour ago, Kasper said:
Am I missing something here?
How many units of pigs can you WC buff at once.
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50 minutes ago, Kasper said:
I struggle to write lists with lots of Brutes period tbh. Their objective play is obviously amazing on paper but its semi worthless atm in this edition. It might be a local meta thing but tables arent swarmed with 1 wound models where I play. People are still hyped about monsters or in general bigger heroes etc. Many armies bring 3x 10 to fulfill battleline and thats it. You dont need Brutes to challenge that.
The output of Brutes is great and better than Pigs, but the damage difference isnt large enough imo that it makes up for the inferior movement. Battle tactics really reinforce that speed is key and its important to get into certain places to complete the tactics instead of just swamping objectives.
I think lists need to have multiple big threats, so I could see 10 Brutes make up one threat if you arent bringing 2x MK, but I really dont value Brutes beyond that compared to filling out with Pigs/+3x 5 Ardboy for battleline.
The thing about brute heavy lists is with da choppas you can buff multiple units of them at once. 3x10 brutes all with +1 damage from only one WC is terrifying in a way GGs never will be. The -2 rend and free +1 to hit vs big stuff guarantees they mince things with 4+ wounds while they flat out deny single wound models from holding objectives. If you don't think that's important with horrors being a thing you are overlooking one of the strongest lists in the game atm.
Sure they don't run with 2 cabbages but there is a reasonable 1 cabbage list and potential for a footslogging list.
Brutes are solid as hell right now.
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1 hour ago, Backbreaker said:
Wait, you still get +1 to hit and to wound on the charge? I really must be blind haha!
I told you, I'm lost with this new battletome ^^
Just checked. The pigs don't get +1/+1 on charge but they are 3+/3+ now instead of 4+/4+. So the charge bonus was just added as standard.
Also I never used the spears so forgot about that.
On the other side flat mortals on the charge has way better synergies with the bloodtoofs buff while the spears were competing against the +1 attack on axes anyway.
Overall I'd say they actually got better not worse.
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2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:
I am completely lost! List building is really different and I don't know what direction to take. Gore Gruntas took a massive hit and I'm not sure they are the shock cavalry I used to like. Between Choppa and Ironsunz, I don't what to pick. I will have to buy new models, my 2000 points list is 1775 points now and it was an MSU to get +2 attacks with the waaagh.
Overall, it seems that playing two Krushas is the way to go. I need to proxy some way another Krusha.
Goregruntas weren't touched at all offence wise. The Ironjawz Waaagh! is enormous for them as having 2 rend on the choppas and 1 on the boars is dirty as hell.
Add onto that the bloodtoofs ability and if I had 18 painted I would be taking them to the next event. I think part of the problem is that once you go bloodtoofs they are so much better that you really only want to be taking 2 units of 5 ardboys for home protection and even then 3gg's fill that role fine.
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3 hours ago, ShaneHobbes said:
Was Rally ever a factor for them?
I used it once but I only had 1 unit of 10 and the 2 units of 5 spent all their time screening my objectives etc. The one time I did use I got 3 of the 4 back, it almost entirely negated a round of shooting they had taken.
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I did a tournament this weekend with Ironjawz, went 3-2 but both losses were the 2nd day on table 1 then 2.
So matchups
- Survival of the Fittest vs 40 Irondrakes in greywater fastness. He was forced to go first so I couldn't just take and sit the objectives for the game. Got the double and won. (27-8)
- Tectonic Interference vs beastclaw. I easily dismantled him and had tabled him by the end of 2. Ironsunz command ability absolutely won me the game when I was able to charge the MK's in during his turn 1 despite being forced to go first. (31-6)
- Savage Gains vs Thunderlizard. MK's siezed his home objective while I held both my own and a side one, then pinned him on the last middle objective for 4turns. The game was a massive score fest which ended (49-26) in my favour.
- Feral Foray vs Thunderlizard. I was able to apply a ton of pressure early but due to a late night the night before I misplayed my first turn a bit then my second MK failed to kill a stegadon. I held two of his objectives turn 2 but by turn 3 I'd lost it and was unable to do more than stall. ~(19-25)
- The Vice vs 30 Irondrakes+Stardrake in Excelsis. We postured turn 1, I took prio turn 2 and was able to open his defences. Lost prio turn 3 and the game was over. I knew I needed to force it into the turn 3 priority roll off, if I'd won it I would have won the game. ~(18-26)
Overall I finished 13th with the 3rd highest VP total. Unfortunately I was the top of the 3-1 going into 5th round so had to face the bottom of the 4-0 who finished 2nd. I think had I faced any of the other 3-1's I would have been able to beat them comfortably as there were no seraphon or Irondrakes. As it's a WS10 event softscores play a reasonable part in the final standing which really tanked me down the rankings. On only win/loss/VP I'd have been top 3-2s.
Overall opinions.
Cabbages - I love them, the two of them were the real powerhouses of the list and are absolutely horrendous to face. The Armour of Gork+Fast 'Un was an awesome combo, not just for the 6++ ward but the +1 to hit was massive aswell.
Brutes - Man they hit hard, the only time they ever bounced was against a stardrake with +3 to save when they had no +1 damage (I really had no choice but to charge there
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Ardboys - These were actually the workhorses of the list. Their damage is ok but they are tanky for their points, they fill the frontline role amazingly.
Goregruntas - I found these to be mediocre. Only having 3 and them not being in bloodtoofs made them far less useful. As I had 2 cabbages and 10 Brutes they never received a damage buff so didn't hit amazingly hard. I'd say they are reasonable as medium cav.
Battletraits etc.
Mighty Waaagh! Leader was never relevant. It's to short range and due to my list I was always at 3" charges on my waaagh! turn anyway. I was also very CP starved a lot so I think the double MD would have been wasted aswell, would probably go for either the CP generation or the MW impact hits.Fast 'Un+Armour of Gork is the ******, this and amulet of destiny will be my loadout whenever I run double cabbage.
Ironsunz is just what you'd expect, it's a huge threat that's also quite CP hungry. The main thing is it makes your opponents play around it so ironically you almost never have to actually spend the CP.
Ironjawz Waaagh! is so good it's unreal. I cannot stress how good this is. For that one turn you will go through everything like butter, the cabbages just eat everything and anything.
List Building
My main takeaway was that the double cabbage+brutes was both to expensive of a threat and didn't work well together. The Brutes weren't fast enough to hit with the cabbages so I pretty much always had 2 waves rather than 1 which combined with only 2 WC buffs meant one of the 3 didn't have the buff. In the future I'd say if I'm going double cabbage it's with Bloodtoofs or Ironsunz Ardboys. On the other hand Brutes I'd only run in Da Choppas with a single cabbage.SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Da Choppas
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Wounds: 150
Drops: 1SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
Drops: 2SpoilerAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
Total: 1955 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
Drops: 5These would be the 3 that initially would be the basis for each clan although the Ironsunz one is unclean points distribution wise I'm not sure how I'd shift it.
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34 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:
You can't really ignore the mortals, though; they're absolutely crucial to Boltboyz and Gutrippaz both. Ignore them, and you might as well replace your Boltboyz with Hobgrots as well, because if it were all 'just' regular wounds the Hobgrots do more damage there too!
But the mortal wounds are there and they're absolutely critical to the way the army functions, and to the synergies with the Sludgeraker and shaman. The Sludgeraker aura alone causes Gutrippa damage to absolutely take off, even in just a 10-man unit, and Gutrippaz get more out of the aura than even Boltboyz do.
So damage results. There is a slight approximation due to how I do the mortal wounds on the tool, end result is that gutripperz/boltboyz could theoretically do twice their maximum damage but neither of the graphs gets close. Also this is using the 12" shots of the boltboyz, the method I use wouldn't work properly with the 24" attack.
This is of course comparing the melee attacks of gutripperz vs the shooting attacks of hobgrotz/boltboyz, which avoids the combat priority and doesn't put them at risk of retaliation. In addition the 20 shots of the hobgrots come from 2 seperate units so can be more appropriately split if required. Not to mention the opponent can only inflict a maximum of 10 wounds not 20.
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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
I'm running a list with 2 blocks of 15 ardboys this weekend although it will have 2 MK's with it. Depending on what else you have to go with will depend on what list you're looking at.
This was posted on the previous page.
Personally I'd be looking at Da Choppas for a single Cabbage Ardboy heavy list running 15/5/5 with 10/10 brutes.