Malakree

I think best we will get is Moonclan etc. stuff. I really doubt we will be getting an Orruk update till after GHB2019 at the earliest. There's been no hints or inclination that this is anything beyond "Grots" and the Warhammer Community AoS2 post made it clear that's Moonclan, Spiderfang, Gitmob and troggoths. Notably, which makes more sense now we have seen the shroom trog, the post has the following image However it only mentions Aleguzzlers as allies.

If you have some unbuilt/painted ones coming I would start with those rather than mess with the built/painted ones first. It helps you get to know the model, where the joint is, how you need to magnetize etc.

It also means you have to decide how many cps to save for rerolling failed charges rather than using what you need and then blowing all the rest on waaagh! Honestly being able to use them at the start of the combat phase would way more sense. Specifically it would mean you could use them at the start of your opponents.

Generally I save a CP back when I waaagh to have a reroll on crucial charges.

@BWG Cannonball I'm not sure how comfortable you are with magnetising, or if you are doing two different colour schemes for them, but you can magnetize the heads allowing you to swap between them. It can also make them easier to transport depending on how you are doing so.

I think you go resilience tbh. If you aren't running the broach then prophet tanks in value. Especially if you don't have at least 3cp on first turn.

I wouldn't be surprised if they get there and decide that what's needed is a stormcast civil war so they can open 2 new chambers at the same time....They really need to make Grand Alliance: Stormcast it's own thing and stop messing around pretending it's Order. Have each of the chambers with their own units and allegiances. Extremis with Dracoths as Battleline and all Dracoth/Stardrake units part of this chamber. Strike Chambers with different Elite units as battleline depending on what your general is. (Prosecutors, Judicators or Paladins) Vanguard Chambers actually making Vanguard Hunters for their battleline Sacrosanct Chamber being pretty obviously the new stuff. Then have the Broader Stormcast Allegiance which only has access to Liberators as their battleline, this would stop all the crossbuffing ****** which goes on in the stormcast faction while adding more depth and choice to each of the chambers. Suddenly if you want to use a mounted Lord-Celestant you're either putting 3 units of liberators on the board, a 300 point battleline tax and losing your specific allegiances, or you're playing as Extremis. You then have Staunch Defender be a command trait for the Strike Chambers so that a generic GA:SC can't actually run it.

Since at this point it's looking like "Grots" are going to be released as a single faction, including Troggoths and Giants. Combined with the fact that Greenskinz didn't actually get a faction focus leading up to AoS2 it puts them specifically in a bit of a dead space. We could see in the future a reintegration of the Ironjawz and the lesser Orruks into a single faction. That would give a ton of options without breaking the IJ being black orcs aesthetic.

That stops him taking the SoJ ?

I meant Choppa and Rip-tooth fist, the "tooth" part confused me ? Personally I dislike the GH/ST setup although in this situation I can see they are about equal.

Yeah after testing it on the footboss he's impossible to get in the right place at the right time. Also because he's so slow the SoJ threat range is way to small. Personally I'm thinking I'd use the choppas and scraptooth still because if you're dropping +hit on the MB it really boosts the scraptooth well. The other option for me would be on a warchanter. At that point it is the threat of it more than actually investing in it, the warchanter is good even without using it where as you are properly investing in the footboss for the SoJ over a bannerboss.

Love these two so much. It's good to see the Hag getting used. The idea of a frostlord flying around, on either mount, is just hillarious.

Seeing @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid both being order traitors is sad Generic Destruction in 2nd place, and one of only two 5 majors is nice. I would like to see the list (@Donal?) but I suspect it has at least 180 grots.... It definitely looks like destruction is better than any specific allegiances.

Sorry for slightly derailing the conversation here. After experimenting with no wizard in my bloodtoofs I'm far more comfortable with not taking a weirdnob. On that train of thought I was playing around with a brutish cunning double cabbage list and ended up with this. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Brutish Cunning - Artefact: Ignax's Scales Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: The Boss Skewer Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)BattalionsBrute Fist (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 141 Sadly I'm short on the brutes to run it but the idea is pretty obviously to try and get your opponent tied down with the ardboys then swing in with the brutes. It gives us a lot of potential for mw output before the combat phase.

Yeah can be a real ******. I think you're really trying to smash the part of his army he does put on the table before he drops the rest of it. If he has all that in the sky he's down half his points. Then clean up the balistas when he drops and try to win on VP scored in the later phases. ****** the VP's and just go for killing everything you can get your choppas to.

What was your list? Kind of makes a difference as to how you can respond.

Sometimes the small changes can make a big difference, that doesn't make them any easier to see when you're getting your ads whooped. That's what outside perspectives are for ? like cutting the wizard out for me. Despite how reluctant I was damn does it feel so much stronger.

I play the objective game and use the brutes as more of a surgical tool. They are slow so I use ardboys/ggs to pin and then bring the brutes in where I need them on the explosion turn. I think the 3 brutes list are using them as battleline, traditional sense, where as I use them as specialists.

Go up to 30 ardboys with 10 for triumph tbh. Another 10 shields gives you a disgusting tarpit which you can just throw across the board and force your opponent to engage into. It also puts raw wounds onto the board which is one of the megas weaknesses. Last but not least is it gives you an amazing to use the ironjawz cannon on. Proc the move on them, run and make it a 6 for 1 cp. That's 11" move with the bloodtoofs. If you can then proc a second and run again you are moving between 13" and 18" iron fist onto that and you have now just pushed 30 ardboys at least 25" across the board in your hero phase. There's also some ambiguity in the wording of the run rules. Specifically it specifies that the increased move characteristic is for "this movement phase" so it doesn't actually specify it falling off at the end of your hero phase. Personally I think it should bit you can make the case for the run move lasting till the end of the move phase. That would mean with a run in your move phase you are now going 4+6+2d6+3 on top of whatever you did in the hero phase. Theoretical maximum is 11"+18"+25" for 54" movement.... Good job there gw! Edit: this list. Has a respectable 147 wounds LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146

Yeah, it's one of those things to consider. Both can be good, shackles are way better than they look on the warscroll. I'd definitely suggest trying both before you decide. A move 2 brute isn't that much worse tbh, a move 4 demoneetes is much worse. Just finished a 1 day local tournament, not at facehammer, sadly forgot to get pictures sorry guys. The list I ran was Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: UlguLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Miasmatic Blade Orruk Megaboss (140)- Artefact: Sword of Judgement Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 133 So initial thoughts. Some minor errors, and a 12" charge from a unit of 9 eels on his turn 1 ?lost me the first game but it was close the whole way and a brutal slaughterfest. Game 2 I claimed all 3 objectives on shifting objectives vs legion of blood and just tanked on them for the game. Game 3 was places of arcane power which I claimed two objectives and sat on them. The centre point was a slappy fight in mystical woods for 4 turns... In each game I chose to go first so I could grab the objectives. The ironjawz allegiance cannon is so disgusting if it goes off, had a warchanter make a move of 18" off one of then. God I've missed my big unit of ardboys. Going from 7/3 2h/shields to 7/13 makes them so much better it's unreal. I didn't miss the wizards at all, there was no point in any game where I missed having them. The footboss remains garbage, I hate him. He's super slow so is incredibly hard to get into combat, the low threat range also means the opponent just keeps their heroes and monsters away from him. Also soaks up both warchanter buffs which I desperately needed elsewhere. Miasmatic blade remains great. Someone suggested doppelganger cloak in the fb group and actually I think it might have been more useful. The turns where we explode everything dies anyway, it's surviving the other turns which is important. Talisman of the watcher was a surprise standout. The warchanter is generally not in combat anyway and having a free mystic shield on exactly the unit you need it for that combat phase is amazing. God did I miss the aetherquartz broach. Not having it made the explosive turns less explosive and made other cp uses far more expensive to use. Changes I'd make Drop the footboss, I hate him. Everytime I use one I find myself wishing it was a warchanter instead. Potentially put the SoJ on the cabbage. At least I actually want the wc buffs on him anyway. That's if I stay ulgu at all. Maybe go up to 30 ardboys at 7/23, they tank so unbelievably hard and give you a core around which to manoeuvre the rest of your army. Really tempted to go aetherquartz+prophet. How I play with the cabbage and army in general just compliments it so well. If not I'd be more likely to try out shyish than stick ulgu. Take the ethereal on the cabbage and run brutish cunning instead of ironclad. That would give me access to the splinter bow for ranged mortal wound potential for the warchanters. Obviously I'm not the greatest of players but I honestly think anyone whose trying bloodtoofs should give a no magic list a go.

@Thenord Looks pretty solid. Consider whether it's worth taking a 20 point spell, it's that vs the triumph. Both are reasonable options.

Or even drop the cogs for a unit of 10 savage orruks to sit around the weirdnob. One question, how are you getting 50 points spare. The list only has even costed units so it should be a 60 or 40 left. Allegiance: IronjawzLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Megaboss (140)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Units4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)Total: 1900 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 147 ahh I see, cogs are 60 points not 50.

Yeah the discussion is that Ardboyz should come in blocks of 5, same as liberators. It would give a lot more flexibility for list building.

One of the big things I think should be done is raising the Mawkrusha fists to -3. AIt's shocking some of the things which have the same or better rend. Especially whrn you consider the levels of blunt force trauma involved, one of the traditional ways of dealing with super heavy armour. I'd also like to see a buff for the brute boss choppa. It is a really cool weapon but is just shockingly bad compared to the klaw/Smasha.

I have no intention of working at gw. Besides, I couldn't smoke enough weed to come up with some of the stuff they have put in the recent battletomes. ?