Malakree

Yep, they changed the old rules because we could do some stupid stuff with it then made the new ones dumb in other ways...

Are you reading the ghb2018 ironjawz one?

Bloodtoofs with 100 points for 2 extra CP's so 4 in total. Engaged turn 2, with 6 CP's. Got up to 12 Waaagh! running and only rolled a single 6 The Broach is frankly disgusting. You roll for each Ironjawz hero, you then trigger it on an applicable unit as @Superninja and @Oreaper84 said. This can stack multiple times on a single unit with careful movement. There is also a fricking huge as loop hole that GW have left regarding running and the MD move. Specifically in the running section. Why is this broken? Because it adds the run roll to your move CHARACTERISTIC for the rest of the phase. This has some disgusting ramifications with Bloodtoofs, Mighty Destroyers and At The Double. Trigger Mighty Destroyers on a unit of Ardboys. Run them. Make the Run Roll a 6. With Bloodtoofs this is now a 7. Your Ardboys now have a move characteristic of 11 Move 11" Trigger a second Mighty Destroyers on the same unit Run them again Make the roll a 6 for 7 total Ardboys now have a move characteristic of 18" Do whatever you want because you just got 29" of movement on a unit of Ardboys during your hero phase.

Answer is they don't. Against that list of opponents you will be running the weakest of the armies, you can take wins against all of them but it will be an uphill battle with IJ. The only exception is if the SCE player goes sacrosanct, if he does that you will basically never beat him. Currently we are waiting/hoping for a LoN style tome that will update our warscrolls to a modern standard. Sorry to be a downer but I feel it's better to lay out the truth in it's harshest form so that you don't have unrealistic expectations. Most of us play IJ because of a love for the faction, those of us who actually want to place (@Chris Tomlin @Sangfroid) are playing other armies atm.

You can choose NOT to take it even if you succeed. It's worth rolling it even if you decide not to use it. One thing you can do is MD with a run, then the second MD to charge since the MD charge overrides the "you can't charge if you run" Yes, Ironfist is just d6" free movement. Yes, my record is +13 attacks for every weapon across my entire army. Cabbage wiped a unit of 20 sequitors who were at a 2+ save on it's own. EDIT: I believe they are referring to the Aetherquartz+Prophet combo. You generate a ton of Waaagh! off the Aetherquartz then get to maximise your attacks from the Waaagh! (through 6s) using the prophet.

Yes, this is a free move which follows all the rules as a normal move for example you can run but doing so will prevent you from charging in the movement phase. You can pile in a second time in the combat phase, lets you reposition an extra time in combat. Just because you roll the charge you don't need to make it. You can trigger Destructive Bulk from the Maw-Krusha with it. If the unit then dies to magic/shooting you can charge again You can retreat and charge with a general fungoid CA. You can charge a unit of 30 Ardboys, then run and retreat in the Movement phase to allow you to cover a massive amount of distance/setup a screen. Yes, you immediately activate your next unit, with High Waaagh! stacks running this will often mean you trigger your entire army before your opponents first activation.

I totally did take that into account @Skumbaagh @Reuben Parker it's a fantastic point and I agree completely! Great call!

I'd drop one of your Weirdnobs to a Fungoid. The second weirdnob ends up being a bit to much of a pita to move around the board and still keep the +2, the Fungoid gives you a much more flexible wizard who still has good survivability and with the deathcap gets 2 spells with a RR. Drop the cogs, they just aren't needed tbh and I often find they give other armies a bigger advantage than us. You already have +3 to all your Ardboy charges. Lastly I'd drop the Megaboss, bit controversial but at 140 points he's damn expensive for what is essentially just a buff bot with a tiny 10" aura range. Since you are already packing an Orruk Warboss you get the 12" unconditional waaagh from him and with 9" movement is much easier to get where you need him for the Waaagh! This gives you 40+60+140 spare points for a total of 240. enough for an extra 10 Ardboys in one of your squads and 80 points to fit in the Ironskullz boys as a cheap space/objective holding unit. Lastly, since you dropped the Footboss you have a free General option. The fungoid is obviously a reasonable choice who lets you run, retreat and charge or you could go for something a little more out there like Brutish Cunning. Slightly different take on the same idea which gives you more options.

The pitched battle profile is 2 profiles, it's 2 drops.

Yes.

That right there is known as a "f*ckton of brutes"

They were imported into the none malign portents rules. That's part of why it's so hard to find all this stuff.

Check the Malign Portents Errata. A Harbringer can be included in any army of their Grand Alliance regardless of allies and may be the general in those armies. He addressed this at the bottom, the Edit: where it says about only rolling the 6s because he doesn't get to roll for the fungoid. It's great the way GW hides these things in a bunch of different places isn't it ? If they hang around and hold the objectives till turn 3 you've won anyway. There's some funky rules around when you can actually use the replacement ability, as it stands right now you can use it at any point whenever you like, which means you could technically lose them at the end of your turn (combat/battleshock) resummon them and get to move them your turn after that.Plus with correct warchanter positioning you can more or less pick where you want them to come on, if they are within 12" then you're +3 to charge gives them good odds of getting in. Yes that is a weakness with it and it's why I also included a bunch of smaller units in my theoretical version. Idea being you probably won't bring back the unit of 30 unless your opponent hard focuses it, this means you're either getting a bunch of smaller units back which can reposition while the large unit holds or visa versa.

Aye I've gradually come to the conclusion that a massive Ardfist is probably our best list. Something like Maybe something like that, ton of wounds, big blocks of Ardboys and fungoid to allow you to reposition if they try and pin your unit down or just to have the MK do multiple charges. Hell maybe even go the whole hog. 203 wounds which you can potentially bring back 180 of them. Most armies are not going to be able to get through that number of wounds with a 4+ save and a bunch of 6++ as well.

Iirc 4+ the extra attack is slightly better but it's essentially equivalent. For every type of reroll, 1+/2+/rra the -1 gets one save step better. So with rra they are approximately equivalent at 6+ Weirdnob+balewind seems a lot considering your lack of bodies. I'd drop both for 10 ardboys instead, no wizard only hurts if you are using realm spells and at that point I'd drop the spearchukkas for a fungoid general if you want cheeky.

The biggest issues come from the command squad and shield options. You generally want to remove the command squad last so what it has decides what you end up with. For larger units 10/10/10 is worse than 10/20 because of how the 6++ functions as the number of shields increases.

You actually get enough in the SC for 2 drummers, an Icon of Gork and Orruk Banner. Ideally your units of 10 should be either 7-3 or 1-9 Great Weapons/Shields depending on what role you want them to do. When you go up to larger size units the % of shields increases because they scale so well the more of them you have, plus you often won't get more than 10-15 in combat anyway. So at 20 I use 7-13 and for 30 I prefer 12-18. Those are vague numbers but you can see the approximate distribution. In the modern meta and using our current tactics GW are better than DW. This is for a few reasons. Yes you have armies like Seraphon or Nighthaunt floating around (!) but they are a relatively small amount of the army pool. On the other hand you have units like Black Knights/Skeletons whose shields give them +1 save vs no rend, so the 2h are actually -2 rend. You also have things like sequitors which have RRsaves, because of how modifiers are applied getting them below their native save is massive. The ordering is below. Opponent makes saves (4+) Opponent rerolls any failed saves (1-3) Modifiers are applied (-1) Check to see what went through. So against sequitors if you have -1 rend and they have no +save then their save rolls are actually 1/2/3 Reroll, 4 fail, 5/6 success So that -1 rend gives them a "failed save" that they can't reroll, which is significantly strong than the extra attack. Lastly is the fact we are using Waaagh! far more than we used to, and the more extra attacks you get the better then -1 rend becomes relatively. +1 attack is practically meaningless if you're getting +3/4 attacks from Waaagh, on the other hand an -1 rend only gets better the more bonus attacks you stack.

When reading warscrolls it is important to note WHEN the warscroll was written. The modern one's are written in the knowledge that any ambiguity is going to get rules-lawyered into the floor as people argue edge cases. For the first year or so there was no matched play/points, the game was supposed to be "narrative and non-competitive". So the rules from back then are more vague and fluffy. The IJ battletome was released 3rd of May 2016. While I believe the first General's handbook which introduced matched play/points wasn't released until summer that year. As a result the Ironjawz battletome isn't as clear as it should be in a lot of places.

It's Rules as Written not Rules as Intended. We read through the rules in order and see if it makes sense as written. If it does then we follow that rule process. So to do that for the Ardfist step by step. The intoxicating beat drummed out by Orruk Warchanters draws Ardboys out of the badlands. This sentence is just fluff. Once per battle, if the battalion's Warchanter is still on the battlefield, in your hero phase, you can replace any units from this battalion that have been destroyed. This tells us we can replace ANY UNITS that have been destroyed if the Warchanter is still on the battlefield. So RaW it is multiple. The replacement unit is identical to the unit that was destroyed and must be set up with all models within 6" of the edge of the battlefield, and more than 6" from any enemy units. This says "The replacement unit is...." so, when a unit is Replaced it must satisfy these conditions. It does NOT say that only one unit can be brought back this way. Within these restrictions, it must be deployed as close to the battalion's Warchanter as possible. How to set it up This counts as the unit's move for the following movement phase. Can't be moved in the movement phase. So RaW once per game you can use the ability. When you do so bring back any (or all as you don't have to bring back a unit if don't want to/cant) units. Each of these units individually must be exactly the same as the unit they are replacing. It's essentially just the English language being screwy, however the first makes an explicit statement of the multiple. As the second doesn't directly contradict that and does make sense if it is applied in the multiple then we take the only explicit point which is that it affects multiple. In addition the sentence which contains "Any Units" is in the Errata published with AoS2 while the former statement is from the Battletome released in 2016. As such it's also the more recent rules release which would infer that RaI is you can bring back multiple. To give a comparative sentence in English. Here we see a multiple in the first phrase, "Any student" with a singular in the second. In this case however "The student" could be exchanged with "Any student who does enter the event" So despite the first being "singular" it's actually interchangeable with a plural. I realise I went a bit off topic but hopefully it makes sense. I do tend to ramble

So I'm once again braving the hellscape that is Blood and Glory intent on getting whopped once more. The rules in play are Terrain Warscrolls, Realm Magic, Realm Commands and Realmscape Features. This poses some interesting questions from a list building perspective and I'm here to delve into the Great Minds (Ardest Eads) of the destruction forum. Initial Thoughts Terrain Warscrolls means that the Bloodtoofs Realmgate might actually be useful. To use the Realmgate we need a Wizard or Priest (cos ****** us and our Totems rite) Realm Magic means I need at least one wizard, preferably two. Realm Commands and Realmscape Features. Tells me I want CP's and the Aetherquartz Broach. So end result of this is that I have to many things I want and not enough points to get them, story of this GHB for us. So lets start with the stuff I know I want. I've taken Prophet because honestly I looked at the realm command abilities and decided I should have the Aetherquartz Broach, they combo so well and the way I use the cabbage is very defensive anyway. The rest of the list is standard as you can get, Ironfist is for the second Artefact, CP, Drops and movement. This leaves me with 340 points and the following wish list. The downside being this is 150 points over budget at it's smallest. I do have some initial thoughts as to where I would go with this and even if I go Bloodtoofs I'm not married to the 1 drop concept. What are peoples thoughts and opinions, I feel like I need at least 2 wizards minimum whatever. EDIT: other option ofc is to just say ****** it and go for something like this. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- Artefact: Guardan's Coronet Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- General- AlliesBattleline3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)Units5 x Cave Squigs (60)BattalionsIronfist (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 122 Low on everything but cabbages, obv fishing for fungoid destructive bulk shenanigans.

Wound characteristic would be my call, just for simplicity's sake. Means you're not counting up "wounds left" just what the characteristics are. So a Frostlord is ALWAYS 13 wounds, even if it has 1 wound left. Stops stupid math from having to take place. Side note, I know BCR struggle with the no magic with some advocating for double butcher in GHB2017, has anyone tried an allied fungoid in the list. Not as the general but just for the cheap 80points wizard, seems like having a mystic shield/unbind/dispel could be very useful.

@Amradiel don't see why not. Use the ggs as the Ironfist boss so it's harder to remove. One option to change it up is drop the 20 ardboys for a unit of 3ggs and take a unit of 10 brutes. Less wounds but more killy depends how you feel about it.

I dunno, I'm just throwing out the basics. To some extent i feel like I might be stifling discussion because it's perhaps to comprehensive without saying anything specific enough to get called on. Really though I'm just satisfying the part of my aspergers which obsesses over th at kind of thing ?

If you are going to buy GG's then you just buy the start collecting box. Through GW you are spending £2 for 10 Ardboys and a warchanter ?

We are being negative because a lot of what is relevant has already been covered towards the start of it. That said the fact we are shooting ****** is more to do with our weakness to the absolute top tier armies. Against the stuff which isn't broken we are far more competitive. Two start collecting boxes is a fantastic place to start, (Sadly they have removed the skirmish box which was just amazing) it gives you an amazing starting point of which everything is useful. Two Warchanters basically every IJ list runs at least one, a ton of them run two. 6 Gore-Gruntas. Build these with Pig-iron Choppa's. It is very rare to see a list with no GG's, most will run two units of 3 (3x3). 20 Ardboys. Again, most lists will include at least 10, some will run two blocks of 10, a block of 20 or even a unit of 30. Weapons wise they are the most flexible, personally I have started magnetising any weapons that fall off. The arms are the perfect size for a 3mm magnet and it lets me pick and choose my loadout. Build every command model you have the stuff for. Banners, Icons and drummers. A massive post I made ages ago that is still mostly relevant. Mainly the tailing part isn't, you can still do some trixy stuff with the modern IJ allegiance it's just harder to do. Modern Lists This is the bit where there is a bunch of controversy over as we don't really have an "amazing" list that just works. Every option has some glaring weaknesses which leave us at a disadvantage. I'll run through a summery of them in Spoilers though. Bloodtoofs GorDrakkfist Ironfist No Battalion Allies Rather than post the massive amount of information here I'm going to put some links and add the caveat "Some of this information is slightly out of date" ie. you can only have 1 allied unit per 4 total units (so 3 at 12). Don't hesitate if you have any specific question. Generally most of the Megabosses only resort to being Ornery and Grumpy when there's nothing else to do (like duffin up dos Shiny Eads)