DanielFM

I would say he isn't. Outside of the one-use Starfated Arrow, he doesn't shoot any better that 3 Javelin Prosecutors. There is a trick to turn him into a nuclear ICBM, but it's risky. Blessed Weapons prayer (works on a 4+), Luckstone to turn the to hit dice on a 6, and you get two Starfated Arrow hits for a maximum of 18 wounds. Is it worth it? I don't know. But it's sure flashy as heck Yeah, if it wasn't for my extreme hatred against Hammers of Sigmar she would be an auto-include! Edit: So first Stormcast army in Blackout was 27. Should we doom and gloom already? Can you think of any theories for our bad performance?

Against 4+ save models, 6 Castigators (160 points) with Soulstrike bonus shot should do 4,62 wounds. 3 Hurricane Raptors should do 3,75 against the same target. Obviously, against less armored targets the Raptors start to get better. But against moderately tough targets, the Castigators deal more damage. Not only that, but they have twice the wounds .

They must nerf it. It feels like cheating.

I was planning on that: 12 move+ run (1-6)+1+ reroll charge (2-12)+1. That gives a minimum of 17 (very unlikely) and a maximum of 32. Getting 24 looks relatively easy, even if not guaranteed. In case you want more reliability, spending 2 CPs instead of one gives you run 6 (minimum 22 and maximum 37) or run 1d6+2 (min 19 max 34 ) from Tauralon to help other units keep the pace. It's true that usually first line units (exactly at 24) are what people nowadays call bubble wrap, expendable units you don't want to charge with the Dracolines. But they can also be shooters that needs all the range they can get, or a strong hammer unit which intends to cross the table fast. Some numbers: If I didn't mess up, the chance of a EvoDracs making a 24 charge with the HK CA is 0.8. I calculated it as the sum of the chances of rolling a 1 to run then rolling 9+ to charge (with reroll), plus rolling a 2 to run then rolling 8+ to charge ... up to rolling a 6 to run then rolling 4+ to charge. It doesn't sound like a gamble at all! If you also use the run 6 CA, the probability would be 0.993. Crazy! That's pretty much guaranteed. If you use the Lord Arcanum on Tauralon CA instead, it would be a probability of 0.951. Pretty close to the previous one, but buffing other units too. EvoDracs + Hallowed Knights alpha strike is sounding better and better by the moment

Just clarifying some points. If you want the Vexillor to be of any use besides that single teleport, he will have to drop from Scions to give his reroll charges bubble to relevant units. At this point, we can consider the Vexillor a 120 points "tax" (I know how people hate its misuse these days) to the cost of the Evocators. Even if it forces you to use Hallowed Knights, just by using its command ability a EvoDracs unit will have the same chance to charge a unit at 24" with the worst possible run roll. I leave Gavriel out of the equation as it would help both units equally. In this scenario, the Evocators on foot combo costs 320 points (with some added bonuses as the reroll charge bubble affects several units) and the EvoDracs cost 300 + taking HK. For some people the second could be considered a heavier tax, but I see them as pretty interchangeable, with their pros and cons. Vanguard Palladors can do a similar thing for cheaper, but they need a Lord Aquilor to do it right (Azyrite Hurricane - alpha strike), setting them at 300 points. They have access to fewer damage buffs and natively deal a lot less damage per point. They are an option to be considered, though. I would like to try a list which alpha-strikes both with the aforementioned Evodracs and Vanguard-Palladors combos. Scary!

Please check the follow-up posts from back then. PJetski (I think) showed that Dracolines can match or even surpass Footvocators in damage when they are buffed by external sources. By my calculation, even taking only charge and Empower into account for Dracolines (Footvocators can't get Empowered the turn they drop) they get really close to Footvocators (around 12 PPW vs around 10 PPW). Kugane calculation didn't take a lot of factors into account. Evocators on Dracoline are potentially good but be ready for investing in them (Lord Arcanum on Dracoline for buffs).

Well, some problems can't be solved just by points. Protectors offer something Evocators don't, and regardless of them being worth their points or not, they bring a meaningful choice. Decimators could also offer something different, but they fall short. The real problem is Retributors. They should be the heaviest hitters, while Evocators are the most versatile. Sadly, that's not the case.

Of course. But we must stress the fact that Liberators and Paladins (with Retributors as worst ofenders) problem is not new units being better, but them being as bad as they were. Because some people won't aknowledge it. And it's key to send the right message to GW and sort them out by making them good (cheaper, as the battletome train passed) and not making the new units worse.

Man, "every case" and "the most usual cases" are sooo synonimous ? As PJetski said, those cases aren't that uncommon.

That makes them kind of versatile VS Evocators, doesn't it? On the ground for buffs and more power, or from Scions with a viable charge without external help. Evocators can do neither.

Yeah, I messed up by wording it as "another model flee". -1 Bravery is a lot better. Against multiwound models (more and more these days) you need several wounds to get a -1 bravery. While the ability gives you that straight. I wouldn't throw Evolines against infantry blobs, anyway

Just for completeness sake (if I didn't mess up) a charging, empowered Evolines unit does 12,33 PPW. With no external buffs, they are really close to Evocators (which don't get Empower the turn they arrive). So used properly (on the table using their mobility, turn 1 charges) and with some support, Evolines can perform better than Evocators. Evos on the sky, Dracolines on the ground. Nice and varied (better than Evocators on foot spam again and again), and you get the shiny Cleansing Phalanx.

Why not Charge+reroll wounds option on Dracolines? It's a situation which can easily happen in a turn one charge (VS Evocators on foot where it's very unlikely outside Translocation).

Did you take into account the extra killed model if Battleshock is failed? I assume you didn't, because it's not usually included into calculations. Raw damage, Evos on foot win. But Evos on Dracoline can start on the table, charge turn one (with a run+charge and run buff) reliably and with an Empower thrown on themselves. To do the same, Evocators need Scions, Gavriel "I'm on every single list" Sureheart (+ Hammers tax) and they won't have any buff on them. So I think a fair comparison would have Evos on Dracolines rerolling wounds while Evos on foot don't. It's a self-contained buff, it doesn't get the "but more points!" excuse On a slightly different note, they Will be 45€ for 3. Is it me or it feels like a steal?(in the good sense!)

I doubt It counts as 1 unit. The rule talks about number if units on the table and in reserve. Not about how many drops It took to deploy them.

I wouldn't use Evocators for 240. That says quite a lot about your suggestion. Going up to 220 plus Retributors down to 200 would be enough to make both interesting.

But that's you power-fantasy, not Warhammer canon ?? After I saw the sword stuck un the ground I understood. Maybe other item to lean on or a sword from a different race would have been less confusing, but that's being super nitpicky. Good job

It was just my opinion however, the Grandmaul is a two handed weapon. Even in Warhammer, almost no-one uses a two handed weapon in one hand and a hand weapon in the other. If he likes rule of cool, it's ok! It was only my point of view.

If I was you I would remove the sword and change the hand for a clenched fist, maybe one of those with praying beads. That loadout is not reflected in game and couldnt be realistically wielded either. Just my 2 cents.

I understand. I love the playstyle the Lord Aquilor provides (buffing Palladors with other heroes then teleporting them is great!) but if you don't like it the Soulstrike Brotherhood is a tougher sell.

But after filling two battleline slots, why do you want battleline Sequitors? You can use a Judicators unit for the third slot and go for a shooty army, or field 5 Liberators then the token 20 Sequitors. It's not a big sacrifice.

Cleansing Phalanx is good, Soulstrike Brotherhood is quite nice if you use Hunters (not many people do). The ones with Vanguard Raptors and Aetherwings can also be cool if you like to use them. Most of the other require weak units, too many units or give too little of a benefit for the cost. Edit: It's a shame, but a Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber with the cheapest options comes just 2070 points. Close but not there. It gives you 3 CPs, 3 Artifacts, a good special rule, a nice special rule and a pretty useless one. However, at 2250 (who plays that? ) you get enough points to turn two units of Hurricanes into Longstrikes (with two shots per model) and two Azyros into Venators, with 60 spare points for a 4th CP. Guaranteed alpha strike, with artifacts and CPs to drown the opponent. Maybe that's why It doesn't fit at 2000 ?

I would say twenty (hammer) and five (objective grabber). The hammer is buffed by one Evocators unit and the other Evo unit buffs themselves. I will field 5 and 5 anyway, so I'm not the best for giving advice ?

After all those, I'm more confortable changing the single 10 strong unit to 2 of five (in the previous list) and also see a "A 5 man Sequitor unit killed Mufasa" meme incoming ?

Do people rate 5 Sequitors units as useful beyond camping objectives? With rerolls to hit and wound they should deal decent damage to small-midsized units. I know 10 would be better, and 20 are preferred as a big hammer. But I hate 20-strong SCE units (too horde for our super elite army) and I must field two units for Cleansing Phalanx with only 10 Sequitor models.