Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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7 hours ago, Lightbox said:
What are people's thoughts on how well the Claws of Karnak can slot in? I love their models but I'm not yet familiar enough with the book to know how they might stack up against our other foot troop mortal options like bloodreavers or blood warriors (warriors obv will be far more tanky).
I've never looked at their warscroll before today, but they look kind of... ok I guess? They're sort of like slightly better bloodreavers but without a real role. They do slightly more damage than reavers (as if they have reaver blades with rend and reach and a special weapon), but they're still not doing much damage overall with a 4+/4+. They're slightly faster with the pre-game move, but they're not really tough enough to hold the points they get to and I don't think the army is hurting for alpha strikes thanks to the new movement shenanigans.
I haven't really had much experience but honestly on paper I'm not really sure I'd reach for them. If I wanted cheap bodies I'd go for reavers since neither unit is going to do much damage in combat anyway. If I wanted infantry to hold a point I'd go for bloodwarriors. If I wanted fast cheap units I'd go for flesh hounds as they're excellent screens. I could maybe see having one unit to go grab a flank objective or something to try to split up my opponents forces, but that's about all I can think of.
4 hours ago, ibel said:Very nize. I had a similar Idea for my Son (10 jes he play AoS jes Khorne
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What do u think about this list:
Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Bloodletters
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
Leaders
Skarbrand (380)*
Bloodmaster (110)*
- Prayer: Blood Sacrifice- Artefact: Halo of Blood
Slaughterpriest (110)*- Prayer: Unholy Flames
Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Embodiement of Wrath
- Artefact: Mark oft he Bloodreaver- Prayer: Killer Instinct
Bloodstoker (90)
Battleline
6 x Bloodcrushers (360) *
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Bloodletters (360) *
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Bloodletters (180) *
10 x Bloodreavers (80) *
- Reaver Blades
Units
3 x Magore's Fiends (120) *
1 x Riptooth
Endless Spells & Invocations
Hexgorger Skulls (50)
Battelregiment *
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
Drops: 3We just need the Bloodthrone for this. Or what would u choose for a army with the folloing Models (pls he loves Skarbrand so it would be very cool if Skarbrand is in the list)
Leaders
Skarbrand (380)
Slaughterpriest (110)Slaughterpriest (110)
Bloodsecrator (110)
Bloodstoker (90)
Karanak (140)
Mighty Lord of Khorne (130)Bloodmaster (110)
Battleline
10 x Bloodletters (180)10 x Bloodletters (180)
10 x Bloodletters (180)
10 x Blood Warriors (190)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Reaver Blades
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
Units
1 x Khorgoraths (110)
1 x Khorgoraths (110)
3 x Magore's Fiends (0)
1 x Riptooth (120)
3 x Bloodcrushers (180)
3 x Bloodcrushers (180)
I really like the look of the first list, but I don't think the bloodstoker would be very helpful since you don't have many mortal units. If you swapped him out for another unit of reavers I think it would be better. Also I would try to find a way to get the Killer Instinct prayer in there, it's an incredibly good prayer for helping our army get up the field faster.
It's harder to tell with the second list as I've never played a game that big before. I think it looks ok though and it seems to have all the important components. It would definitely be a very bloody game which is always fun.
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9 hours ago, ibel said:
But the think is there are rules for Kaghra's Ravagers in AoS. When i see them on the field i think on there rules and so. On a tournement sry guys as the jugde i wont let them play as a Chaoslord or a normal Sorcerer and so on... (sry)
That's ok, I won't ever be attending a tournament that you judge so it won't be an issue!
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I've been fidgeting with a list that I want to try out with proxies before I drop any money. It's built to help minimize costs for new purchases (I've got a potential line on a few of those old Slaanesh Sybarite boxes and a bunch of existing daemons), but I'm not really sure what to do with battalions for it. Does anyone have any thoughts?
PretendersKeeper of Secrets 400
- strength of godhood
- crown of dark secrets
- flaming weaponLord of Pain 135
- stubborn as a rhinoxThe Masque 140
Seekers 140Seekers 140
Blissbarbs 150
Blissbarbs 150
Daemonettes 250
- reinforcedMyrmidesh 290
- reinforcedSlickblade Seekers 200
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4 hours ago, Primes said:
Hey, could you or anyone sell me on Bloodcrushers? Love the models but they seem pretty underwhelming.
Well if you look at them without considering skullcrushers I think they're really solid. 180 points for three five wound models with a 3+ save is already good. They're fast for the faction and that combines well with the extra movement we have now. They kick out a respectable number of mortal wounds on the charge with impact hits and their blades, especially in bloodlords (pretty sure they'll have the bloodletter keyword so they should get mortals on 5+ right?). I think in units of 3 they're solid advanced units to take and hold objectives and should beat most chaff with relative ease. A 6 man unit should work as an excellent anvil while also dealing a respectable amount of damage.
I think their main issue is how they compare to skullcrushers. I'm pretty sure they're similar for overall damage if you're taking bloodlords, but for 20 points more skullcrushers get a 2+ save and a ward against spell mortals. Skullcrushers also get access to run and charge with the bloodsecrator. The thing is with skullcrushers being better I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get some nerfs if khorne starts doing well at tournaments so maybe bloodcrushers are a safer purchase? Also I think bloodcrushers look a lot cooler but that's just personal opinion.
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5 hours ago, The Red King said:
Just to be clear coalition units do not gain the "blades of khorne" keyword, only the Khorne keyword.
Yeah, same as the rest of the chaos tomes so far. I also don't remember seeing anything that specifically works with Khorne so coalition units are pretty much hosed. Chaos marauder horsemen might still be decent screens, but I can't think of much else.
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1 hour ago, The Red King said:
I'm barely on the internet these days. Anywhere to see the points changes so I can start list theorizing or just pause the youtube reviews?
I just checked out the AoS Coach review on youtube and it has a full breakdown on points at the end. He's also really specific and did what looks like a word for word copy of the allegiance abilities/traits/artefacts along with in-depth changes to the different warscrolls. You need to have the existing book or app to know the full story, but as long as you do it's the best breakdown I've seen yet. Still hoping Facehammer will do a proper review once the book is out so I don't have to cross-reference so much but this should be good enough for now.
After going through it again I'm feeling a little more hopeful for the book. The general allegiance rules have seen a pretty good glow up. Artefacts/traits/slaughterhosts aren't mind blowing but there are a couple cool little combos you can pull off. The new prayers are pretty fantastic and the addition of the priest keyword to so many models means you'll be able to take advantage of them regardless of what type of army you want to run (also a priest bloodthirster just sounds fantastic). Similarly the new tithe abilities are really good with Murderlust an obvious standout. Everything seems to be tuned towards making sure you get to combat quickly and at relatively full strength.
As usual there are a number of dud warscrolls but generally we're better off than we used to be. There were a lot of sidegrade changes (like skullreapers gaining a rend and +1 to hit against large units but losing re-roll hits so they can't fish for mortals anymore and swapping Murderous to the Last for the strictly inferior murder rolls) or improvements that just don't seem to be enough (like blood warriors getting a save and rend, but still wounding on 4's for some unknown reason). There are a number of good improvements though like bloodreavers (murder rolls should do more damage then they ever could otherwise), skullcrushers, bloodcrushers, and bloodletters (2" reach! finally!). Gorechosen heroes have also gotten a lot better combat wise, but I'm still not sure if it's enough to make me want to reach for them over priests or bloodthirsters.
Honestly I think the biggest weakness we have is the book specific battle tactics and grand strategies aren't super great. You should be able to do a few of the tactics depending on your matchup, but the grand strategies are pretty awful all around. We'll definitely have some issues scoring points, but maybe that's ok as we'll be forced to kill the opponent off faster to make sure they can't score either. Very thematic.
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4 hours ago, Troll.exe said:
Does anyone have any clarification on the hero phase sequence of blood tithe and prayers yet?
Will we be able to blood sacrifice then spend that tithe for 3x d6 movement in the same hero phase?
I think we might have to wait for a review that actually shows the new army book, the current ones are too vague or imprecise to really get a feel for the nitty gritty interactions. If I had to guess the hero phase tithe abilities will probably happen at the start of the phase and the prayers would be after, but I could be wrong.
Honestly I'm having problems getting a good feel for the book in general. Maybe it's just because I can't see everything in front of me, but it seems a touch flat so far. There are improvements here and there, but they're generally only enough to just barely cover the the buffs we're losing. Heroes have gotten better which is great, but they're generally only going to a level they should have been from the beginning. I'm not really excited for any of the units other than skullcrushers and bloodcrushers. So much has stayed more or less the same but that kinda sucks when what they were was so miserable. I probably just need to get it on the table but that'll have to wait until we can get a better look.
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Hard to say without seeing everything (man I hate that his head is in the way of almost every warscroll haha), but it's looking pretty solid so far. Pretenders seem like a big winner even without seeing their spell lore and that crown of dark secrets is an almost Be'Lakor level middle finger to god-tier units like Archaon. Looking forward to Saturday for a better quality look at the book from Facehammer or GMG.
I skipped the last book because I would have had to essentially re-buy the entire army as all my daemons were relegated to summoning fodder and nothing else, but this is definitely looking more promising. There definitely still seems to be a slant towards the newer mortal models but at least some of my collection will be playable again. Having to pick up a few boxes is a lot more palatable than re-buying a whole army.
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24 minutes ago, Flippy said:
The text allows for both interpretations; I think we should not choose the one that is clearly unintended as it would lead to absurd results.
Oh yeah, +15 damage and -15 rend is an obvious oversight. That's why I figure we'll get a day 1 FAQ on it. Something like 'If this general has issued any commands to a different...'. It's just funny to take the obvious mistake from GW to the maximum silliness.
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21 minutes ago, Feii said:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/16/the-three-hosts-of-slaanesh-wage-war-with-lascivious-excess-in-the-new-battletome/
Does the Pretender's artifact allow you to boost rend and damage +3/+3 for the general??Currently by raw I'm pretty sure it does, but it isn't limited to just +3/+3. They can issue a command every phase, 3 times each, and the buff lasts until the end of the turn. On the Honest Wargamer stream they showed that the other trait for pretenders is they generate 3 command points instead of 1 for the general being alive, so that's 5-6 command points in a turn with the heroic action. Considering they could issue a command in the hero, movement, shooting, charge, and combat phases I think they max out at +15 to each. Super unlikely to get that high, but +9 to each would be easy. Obviously I think we're going to get a day one FAQ limiting it to only giving +1. Classic GW rule writing.
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2 hours ago, itgnightraven said:
they can already fight in two ranks this season as they are just straight up gally vets
Didn't they change that over to a battalion in the latest GHB? So no chance for a one drop if you want to get good use out of your melee infantry. Plus who knows what we'll have in the next season, maybe it'll stick around maybe not. I'd rather have it on the warscroll like with chaos knights.
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2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I was wondering if mobs of Bloodletters might be viable again. Hoping they get 2 attacks base, but not holding my breath. I like those old 2nd edition ones and also the 3rd edition goat looking ones. More keen on getting daemons, but the mortal models are super cheap!
I hope they'll be viable, I love painting up daemons and they feature prominently in the 40k Chaos Daemons combat patrol box so I'd like an excuse to pick that up. If the rumors are right and they're going up to 2 wounds then I'd definitely expect them to get an extra attack at minimum, and hopefully some way to attack in multiple ranks like a 2" reach or some special rule.
Today's article looked interesting. I like the changes to the bloodstoker in particular. We're probably losing re-roll to wounds and I'm not in love with the likely return of daisy chaining, but anything to get rid of wholly within 8" haha. The other changes seem nice but it is a lot of focus on heroes that have historically been quite awful. Hopefully this is a sign that they've gone through and re-tooled all the hero profiles.
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Question for anyone that has bought the new Exalted Hero of Chaos model, how does it compare size wise to the standard chaos warriors? I've been thinking of picking up the Khagra's Ravagers box and using it for a chaos lord, two exalted heroes, and a chaos sorcerer, but I'm not sure if they'll be a suitable standins once they're on 40mm bases.
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23 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:
I'm looking at this as a Stormcast player. I'd kill for our MW on death ability to work more like this.
The stormcast wounds are exactly what I thought of when I saw the rules. The rules are extremely similar: the 3" range is definitely an improvement over stormcast, but if you have a thunderstrike unit you're looking at doing at at least double the number of wounds for any models that are actually in engagement range. So stormcast get the chance to tigger it less, but generally do more damage when it triggers. I've never actually seen the stormcast wounds make any significant difference in a game (admittedly I have very little experience so maybe it happens more than I think), so I'm not exactly excited to see this ported over to Khorne. Especially when it already had a bunch of similar mechanics that worked perfectly well (and in the case of wrathmongers and skullreapers did significantly more damage on average).
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39 minutes ago, AresX8 said:
@Marcvs This is a huge deal for Khorne, who had almost no way (only answer was Unfettered Fury command ability) of handling shooting/magic heavy matchups. This is an answer to that and a massive deal.
Also, there is a super strong hint that the army is being redesigned. Look at the last sentence written about the Blood Tithe reward:
"The Blood God has given his followers special permission to use this as many times as they want – if enough blood is shed to earn it."
Blood Tithe rewards never added extra attacks. Extra attack sources were always tied to an aura on a unit, up to 3: Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers, and Aspiring Deathbringer.
Based on the wording it sounds like the tithe system might be moving over to the recently introduced version from the 40k World Eaters. For them you generate tithe points in the same way, but you spend them to buy persistent army-wide buffs. Stuff like +1 to charge, exploding 6's to hit in combat, 6+ ward save, etc. That would mean a total re-work of the whole tithe table and it would definitely be a huge foundational shift to the army. No free movement or free rounds of combat in the hero phase would be an absolutely massive shake up. It could also mean that the summoning is going away, but I kind of doubt it because GW seems to love having summoning in chaos armies. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.
As far as the other rules go I'm not totally sold. A 5+ ward is pretty great, don't get me wrong, but daemons are super fragile as is so it's not like they're going to hit maggotkin levels of resilience. It won't really make them hard to kill at range, it'll just sort of make them normal instead of a total pushover. Now if this is combined with a general improvement to saves for the daemons or maybe a big bump in wounds for the bloodthirsters then we could be looking at something really interesting. The mortal wounds on death look... kinda awful? Like a hero will do a whole mortal wound on average when they die. A ~200 point unit of blood warriors will do maybe 3 when they get wiped out? Extra chip damage is nice but this just feels like a lot of dice rolling and measuring for next to no impact. I'm also worried that this means they'll be removing all the other fight on death style mechanics in the faction.
Finally, those tomb king bits look totally dope. They were my second army in fantasy waaay back in the day and I love to see them getting the attention. The flow and design of the weapons is fantastic and it's definitely getting me to consider the old world again.
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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
(Green washing)
If they sell their Sprues (which they will for sure) I want them to grant incentives for the consumers. I am not a fan of I-recycle-so-you-get-richer
Well we've made them richer by buying models often enough. How much better if it's at least for a good cause? I have a frankly embarrassing pile of old sprues sitting around in boxes from 20 or so odd years of this hobby. If they were doing this in my country I'd be more than happy to clip everything and make the trip to the not so local gw.
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25 minutes ago, StarFyreXXX said:
im sure they will be updated. hopefully the saurus knights box can make the character as opposed to wasting a seperate 'slot' on it
SF
Oof, no no no that's the last thing you want. Buying a whole box just so you can make a single character model? If AoS allowed understrength units it'd be fine but as is mixing a character model into a unit box is a terrible idea.
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New sculpts for the Khorne and Slaanesh minis look great, but man that rules preview has me nervous for Khorne. Instead of giving us a resculpt of Valkia and providing something that the faction is lacking (a small based hero that can actually fight, not something that you would think is hard to find in Khorne but here we are), they gave us yet another situational buff model with an extremely limited range. Not only that but it's a buff that's redundant with the globally available All Out Attack and can't stack with it. If our prayers haven't changed then it's also redundant with those. It's just... why. Why, when you have the unlimited possibilities of a brand new model, do you make yet another buffing foot hero (Khorne already has 13 foot hero models!!) and make its buff work off a 'wholly within 8" ' bubble (something every Khorne player already knows and hates with a passion) and then make that buff completely redundant with multiple, much easier to acquire, versions of it.
GW please, if you're listening, stop it. Just stop. I know you like foot hero models, but when you get to a faction that is already drowning in them please, please, please, just use some common sense. It doesn't have to be crazy, a resculpt works perfectly fine. Or a small unit. Or maybe cut a new sprue with those models from the 1st edition starterbox we haven't been able to buy separately for all of AoS. Anything really other than just the exact same thing you've been doing for the last 5 years. I would literally have been happier with no new model at all rather than getting this.
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On 2/21/2023 at 12:32 PM, Hannibal said:
Hi, a short Question regarding Horticulous Slimux:
He can plant an additional Nurgle Tree at the beginning of my hero phase.
Gaining Contagion Points also happens at the start of the hero phase.
Am I right, that the Maggotkin player (who ist the active player in his own hero phase) decides, which of these happens first? Ie I first plant the additional tree, then I gain the contagion point out of that tree?
if tht´s the case, I can get 7 contagion points with ease in the first turn:
Befouling Host, Horticulous Slimux => overall 3 trees => 3 contagion points
being in my territory and no foe in my territory => 4 contagion points.
Is that right?
As far as I know yes, that's the correct way to play it according to section 1.6.2 in the rules. I usually run befouling host and having a semi-guaranteed sloppity bilepiper turn 1 has been huge in the majority of my games. Being able to toss him pretty much anywhere he's needed to shut down pile ins or to get that little extra punch of damage is a really big deal.
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6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
GW has historically been pretty reliable when it comes to keeping models playable in their respective faction, but have been pretty bad when it comes to preserving options that break faction barriers. Over the course of the last few years, we lost a number of those options: Grand alliances after the shift to 3rd edition, mercenary companies from GHB 2019 I believe when GHB 2020 came out, Legion of Grief just after Soulblight Gravelords released and also Lethisian Defenders at some point.
Personally, I have become pretty weary of allies and mercenaries. They have a tendency to just disappear when point updates come out and they are not on the list. Plus, by running allies, you are making yourself doubly vulnerable to tome updates breaking existing synergy. I used to run a Knight Azyros in Cities, but that interaction broke when Stormcast got updated. I believe there was also a bunch of trouble with Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos coallition at the start of this edition.
Preserving cross-faction compatibility just does not seem to be much of a priority for GW. So if you want to get one of those ROR boxes to play them in a faction that can't usually run them, you should accept the possibility that the option might go away as soon as next GHB, and very likely with the next edition.
Exactly, I originally bought into Slaves to Darkness, and Archaon in particular, because I owned the 4 major god armies and figured they were a great purchase because they fit into all 4 armies at once. Because of the keyword system I thought I'd always be able to find at least one of my armies to use them in and there should always be some synergy somewhere. Then this edition they dropped the keyword system entirely and absolutely gutted all synergy between the god armies and S2D. As happy as I am with the current Slaves book and how good everything is, I'm really bummed out with the way GW has been systematically removing the fun cross faction stuff. I would have happily bought into Beasts of Chaos for the same reason as Slaves, but now there's no way.
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2 hours ago, Ogregut said:
I really like the chaos one, the waycry monsters are great sculpts.
Regarding clearing stock - I'm sure they have the technology now to grind up sprues to be reused.
Surely they would do that if they had an excess of stock rather than pay for new packaging, artwork and other resources?
Uh, no? If they grind up the models they make zero profit and maybe recoup a buck in materials per box. If re-packaging models makes it possible to sell them then of course GW would do it. Sure the profit margin would be a little smaller, but it's still going to be more profit than just grinding up the plastic.
Just in case anyone wasn't around in second edition, GW pulled something very similar there. They added mercenary rules to the game and then dropped them immediately at the next GHB and pretended like they never existed. The majority of the mercenary companies were for models that stuck around, but once they sold out of the dwarf cannons in particular they promptly deleted from the game. I would not be surprised at all to see the same thing here. It's possible they might herald some resculpts (for example there was a blood knight mercenary company before the new plastics dropped), but I'm guessing the dwarves will disappear from the game before the edition is out.
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2 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:
Is there particular stuff that the Gitz are really missing as an army, other than things that just generally expand or fit better visually with the (admittedly a bit out on a limb) wolf rider aesthetic? It seemed like the early 2019 GG release was substantial and had a lot of great looking stuff in it, and what they mainly needed was to make them actually fun to use in games
I've been checked out of AOS 3.0 almost entirely beyond chewing through painting a Lumineth army at a glacial pace, but that Gitz vanguard box briefly tugged at the Impulsive Pile of Shame Purchase bit of even my brain
I know it's kinda awful in AoS, but back in WFB days goblins used to man the artillery. Spear chukkas and rock lobbas might be a bit mundane for AoS but Doom Diver Catapults would fit right in. Could have tweaked it to launch squigs if they needed to make it more gloomspite-y.
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3 hours ago, The Red King said:
So with the new errata for blades of khorne I cant recall if coalition units gain the "blades of khorne" keyword or if there is now literally no reason to use the coalition rule unless the unit in question is utterly broken in it's own book since you give up all allegiance abilities on them. Is that right?
They just get the Khorne keyword, not Blades of Khorne, so yeah you're right. Currently next to no reason to bring anything in unless it's totally busted on it's own or it provides something we don't have access to in our book. That doesn't write absolutely everything off, Marauder cavalry for example could be decent with their speed and new ability, but generally speaking better to just run models from our book. It's also worth noting that a few things in the Tzeentch book support the Tzeentch keyword instead of just Disciples of Tzeentch, so it's not impossible they'll re-shuffle when the new book comes out.
Edit: Something funny I just noticed, all of the Khorne prayers have been updated so you can't take them on a chaos warshrine but they missed the Judgements and the Skull Altar. They still work with any Khorne priest.
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1 hour ago, Twisted Firaun said:
Speaking as a Tomb Kings fan and Total War player, it’s hard to play them when Khorne and Tzeentch are coming after you from both sides. And THEN the bloody bretonnians decide to attack you instead of the daemons…..
Yeah the Thunderdome us tough enough playing as one of the really strong factions. Any time I think of playing tomb kings I just kinda squirm inside and move on to something a little more manageable. The game is a blast though, and if we actually do see Cathay on the table I really hope we see the dragons too. They'd make absolutely stunning kits. Not to mention the celestial guard, artillery, sky junks... Man Cathay would be so freaking cool on the tabletop.
Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted · Edited by Grimrock
I played a game against slaves last night as well and I felt the same way. The number of command points is just kind of nutty. For example S2D took the first turn to avoid a nasty alpha strike and to clear out The Masque in the backline. I redeployed the Masque and did all out defense in the shooting and melee phases and it didn't even come close to making me feel tight on CP. Afte that the keeper one shot a 14 wound daemon prince that was under finest hour and all out defense. Then she proceeded to face tank a charging varanguard unit even though she lost her ward from a nurgle prince (this was thanks mainly to the -1 to hit). Thanks to the fact that she survived that varanguard charge the Crown just absolutely neutered a unit of 10 chosen, which were subsequently obliterated by 10 myrmidesh under the Lord of Pain buff and a double pile in from the keeper. There was some good luck on dice here and there, but honestly it didn't feel outside of the standard deviation.
The army feels just... so smooth now. Incredibly fast, hard hitting, resilient once you can get some depravity. Incredible shooting units, incredible buffs, excellent options from the book that cover pretty much anything you might need in a list, and all at a really reasonable point cost. Obviously too early to call OP, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a couple tweaks. The first thing I expect to see is the Lord of Pain's ability being changed to only affect melee weapons. It's just way too good with blissbarbs right now.