Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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7 hours ago, Ogregut said:
What do you think we'll see tonight?
Nurgle or dragons?
They said that Nurgle would be out in December just in time for the grandfather to spread his gifts around the world. It was probably just fancy wording but at the time i figured it meant they'd be out just before Christmas, which would mean release on the 18th and therefore a preview on the 5th. I'd be more than happy to be wrong but that's what I'm expecting until proven otherwise. Plus if we get dragons today and they come out on the 4th it'd line up nicely to have Nurgle previewed that weekend.
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49 minutes ago, angrycontra said:
If I were to make a guess from that warscroll, blightkings no longer have exploding 6 on hit and instead have 5 attacks by default (which I honestly prefer, since fishing for 6s is always a pain).
Should give more hits on average as well (about 17 vs the current of around 15). Also native rend 1. Pretty big improvement so far, but obviously we need to see the rest of the scroll and their points value. If they stay at 4 wounds and get a more consistent healing they could be pretty impressive.
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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:
Yeah, I am not seeing all the doom and gloom over the new battletomes I loved what we got from Stormcast and Orruk Warclans. I do not imagine Nurgle getting worse and overall I find streamlined rules overall much better. Furthermore, most of the issues stemming from Stormcast seem to come from redundancies within the army and so likely wont be an issue for Nurgle which has a lot more room for each unit to fill an invaluable niche. My only complaint with the upcoming tome is a lack of Pesitgors which I was banking on to an unbelievably high degree. 😢
Well you do have to remember that there are 18(!) different heroes for maggotkin (including Fecula but not including all of the Slaves to Darkness or Forgeworld heroes), a number of which were only taken in the current book for use in batttalions or for their command ability. With both of those gone there is absolutely a huge space for redundancy in the army. I'm all for streamlined rules as well, but I'm having trouble believing that GW will put in the work needed to make more than a scant handful of the heroes actually have a purpose.
Also remember that of the very few non-hero units, only Blightkings and Plague Drones were any good for the vast majority of 2nd edition. Beasts were totally useless before the recent re-work and Plaguebearers were pretty so so until their recent changes and improved support. Nurglings and Blightlords still have no real purpose in the army. Even with so few units GW still can't seem to make everything viable.
Maybe the new book will be better, but honestly I'm pretty jaded at this point. It pretty much leaves me in a holding pattern where the army I most want to work on right now is also a complete unknown and I'm stuck waiting for the new book (and subsequent FAQ) before I have any idea of how things will work.
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53 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:
I am one of them.
Everyone knows already that some items, speels and battalions will be removed.
Just by previous experiences, it will be those, that gives Maggotkin at least a little bit of reason to play them.
They will try to reinvent the wheel by absolutely ignoring what actually makes the Maggotkin or why people are appealed to them.
Something around removing 5+ ward and replace it with +1movement which goes completely against the lore
Everybody's darling, the Witherstave will be gone almost guaranteed because i like it so much
Actually based on the way they handled stormcast the witherstave sticking around is just about the only thing I'm reasonably confident in. After that though... Hard to say. As always I expect the good things to get nerfed and the bad things to get buffed. I could definitely see them reworking the cycle of corruption (which would be a huge shame, like you said a total loss of flavor for the army). The biggest concern I have is the apparent removal of command abilities in 3.0. Quite a few of our models live and die by their command abilities so without then they're going to need a total rework or fall into obscurity. GW has rarely shown that kind of initiative, especially with these mini releases.
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51 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:
I am a little confused about how Combat Patrols work and how it could translate into an AOS equivalent. From my understanding a Combat Patrol is a specific 'power level' designed around being a starter for a specific style of play similar to Path to Glory?
So what is the approximate amount of points presented in these boxes? Do they work well for matched play i.e. include an appropriate number of core/battleline troops? I am fairly curious as I am wondering if it will make it easier or more difficult to start a new army, furthermore I have been a little more 40k curious as of late.Depends on the box unfortunately. They were originally billed as a small ~500 point army that was ready to go out of the box, but that kind of fell apart as more boxes were released. For example when they made the Death Guard box they forgot about the new rule limiting the number of poxwalkers in your army, so it ended up being a totally illegal box that would require at least one more purchase to use fully. Points have also fallen by the wayside in deference to not giving too big of a price discount. For example the Adeptus Mechanicus box (one of the more expensive factions) has far fewer points than the Necron box set.
Basically what you have now is a small force that may or may note be legal with a decent discount. They're generally not built to be purchased in multiples (they often contain a character you don't want more than one of), the price is almost double a start collecting, and the discount percentage is worse than start collecting. Essentially they're a solid downgrade on all fronts. They're better than nothing, but not much.
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1 hour ago, novakai said:
So do people say it was done on purpose or it was an oversight like the Mashcrawler?
Who knows. Like @Enoby said it could be intentional because it fits StD design so well (arbitrary restrictions to keep everything but marauders from being any good). It also sort of makes sense since they're Darkoath which is a little different from your standard cultist. They're also being released alongside another warscroll which has the keyword, so it seems intentional.
On the other hand every other chaos warcry warband has the keyword so it's inconsistent. It also breaks synergy with the Darkoath Warqueen/Chieftain's command abilites which makes absolutely no sense. All in all I'd say 50/50 one way or the other. Classic GW.
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6 minutes ago, Charlo said:
Red Harvest Warscrolls are out:
Interestingly, the Darkoath don't have the Cultist key word... So fit into approximately ZERO strategies.
It just fits the StD design ethos so well... Have something that could possibly be decently good, but then throw in an arbitrary restriction to make sure nobody wants to use it. Because reasons. I mean if you can get all of them into combat then 21 attacks doing mortals on 6's to hit isn't bad for 100 points, although that's very dependent on their base sizes, but that's all they have. They go in, cause a couple mortal wounds, and then die to a stiff breeze. The spider people at least seem interesting as a strictly better version of the splintered fang in a cabalist army, but they're 110 points so I'm not totally sold.
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4 hours ago, Warpfiend said:
The info on the Pusgoyles came from the Warhammer Community article on Maggotkin in 3.0 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/19/dying-is-for-the-weak-not-the-maggotkin-of-nurgle-in-the-new-edition/
The player tester states that with 8W Pusgoyles now count as 2 models so are better for holding objectives. He also goes on to suggest using a Harbinger to give them a 5+ ward. As you can't stack wards I think the daemon keyword has gone.
I know some would say that the article was rubbish and should not be trusted but I don't think this can be dismissed as the info is too specific - why mention it at all otherwise.
That article was posted back in June and was focused on how to use the current battletome in the new edition, it has nothing to do with the new battletome.
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1 hour ago, Mutton said:
I don't know why people continue to be surprised when box sets keep going up in price. It's only going to get worse over time. It's a combination of a world economy in panic and GW's endless greed. Look at Underworlds--it's had price increases two to three times over the course of a single year.
Yeah I'm not surprised but it's definitely a nail in the coffin for me. I bought into the original set partially because it was such a great deal with models and terrain. With the prices continually creeping up and my need for terrain satisfied by the original box I have no interest in paying these kinds of prices. It's too bad because that terrain looks pretty fantastic and I love the darkoath warband, but there's just no way.
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11 hours ago, Phasteon said:
They are all pretty solid for their cost.
Each warband comes with a unique ability you absolutely can build around and with less than 100 pts and battleline in an idolators army they can work competitively no problem.
That being said, its absolutely 100% not necessary for warbands from a niche system to be THE competitive unit.
I‘d absolutely field 3 of them for my cheap battleline, but then again I‘d never play STD in the first place.
As a StD player who had the same thought about using cultists for battleline, unfortunately in the end it doesn't work. You take them to fill up your battleline, but then what? What else is there in the army that you want to take now that you've freed up all those points? The main issue is that the majority of our useful units are battleline. Chaos warriors, knights, and marauders are all the units you want to build you army around and they're all battleline. I'm not saying cultists in general are totally useless, a very select few have abilities that are worth taking and having cheap throwaway units to grab objectives and die are always worthwhile in this edition, but the vast majority of them are a total waste of ink.
My unpopular/popular opinion on the matter: Warcry and Underworlds are all well and good and I'm happy GW has diversified their lines and made a number of interesting small scale alternatives to the main games, but none of those models should exist in AoS. None of the cultists or warbands should have any version of AoS rules. Nearly all of them have been a total disaster and it's taken almost 2 years and 2-3 revisions to make cultists even barely playable. They're a total waste of resources for the AoS team and would have been better left alone so people could freely use them as proxies or alternative sculpts without having their own set rules.
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56 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I get why they don't want to do a roadmap, but I am currently in a bit of a state of paralysis with my Cities of Sigmar because I don't know what to expect. Basically, in AoS 2nd, I built a Steam Tank heavy CoS list. That list doesn't really work in AoS 3rd anymore, but I am kind of unsure what to do with it. I want to build to theme, but the most thematically appropriate units for me are currently bad (Helstorm Rockets, Handgunners, more Tanks) and units I could compromize on are just OK (Outriders, Greatswords).
At the same time, Dawnbringer Crusades seem like they are at least a possibility for a new release in the near future. And there is a good chance that they will actually come with stuff that would play really well into my theme, like new Steam contraptions and updated Freeguild sculpts. If I knew that Dawnbringers are actually coming as a Cities expansion, I would probably just wait for them to come out. If I knew they are not coming for at least a year more, I'd probably start working with what is available right now. Worst case, Dawnbringer Crusades actually don't turn out to be anything and I just end up not buying Cities models for a few years out of uncertainty.
I'm in the same place with all of my factions. I collect most of chaos and I know some are going to get updated sooner than later but I have no way of knowing which. Tzeentch and Slaanesh seem the least likely, but given how fast the last Slaanesh and LRL books came out it's hard to say, and Slaanesh isn't particularly exciting for me these days. Khorne is probably a safe bet for at least 4-6 months, but when they do get an update I'd expect them to change significantly given how the 3.0 rules devastated the viability of pretty much everything outside of bloodthirsters. Nurgle is the most exciting for me at the moment, but it's also the most likely to get an update soon so I'm stuck waiting to see what GW is going to nerf into the ground and what they're going to buff (and then subsequently nerf in the 1-2 month FAQ afterwards). I'm so stuck at this point that I've bought into Marvel Crisis Protocol instead (and I'm really rather enjoying it).
Before I bought into MCP I went through all of the factions in AoS to see if I could find anything else that might give me a fun project for a while. Like you mentioned earlier a small force of elite stormcast piqued my interest, but without the scrolls on the site I had no way to quickly check the new rules from the 3.0 book. At the time my interest wasn't strong enough to spend an hour or two collating data from a youtube video so I quickly dropped the idea. If the warscrolls had been available I would have read through them and it might have gotten me to the next step, which in turn may have gotten me to hit that buy button on a dominion box. No guarantees of course, but I do know when those scrolls weren't available my interest died immediately. Now I'm off enjoying a totally different game and giving my money to a different company.
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40 minutes ago, Stormblood said:
You mean Torglug? He wasnt a Stormcast when captured IIRC. Or are you speaking of someone else?
Oof, yeah you're right sorry. I misinterpreted what it said at the start of the paragraph, thought that was a stormcast position or something but it looks like I was wrong. No chaos stormcast yet (and hopefully it'll stay that way).
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Chaos Warriors are just Chaos Warriors. They are cool.
What I am talking about is spcifically corrupted Stormcast, which I would absolutely hate to see. We seriously do not need that in the canon of AoS. And I say that as someone trying to work out a 1000 point Stormcast list to start right at this moment.
Technically they already exist in the lore. Nurgle forces captured and tossed a stormcast in a filth pit for 77 days or something and when he came out he was a fully corrupted follower of Nurgle. The stormcast frantically chased him down, killed him, and gradually purged his soul of corruption afterwards, but the lore had its first? official chaos stormcast. With the Be'lakor thing I think there are large groups of stormcast that can't return to Azyr easily right? I could definitely see GW write them as becoming more and more corrupted the longer they stay in the mortal realms... but yeah I agree we really don't need a chaos stomcast faction. The less comparisons they have to marines the better.
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2 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:
Blades of Khorne has the best-designed allegiance ability in AOS. Fight me. No, really, fight me, it'll only illustrate the point.
Blades of khorne was the best designed book in all of AOS 2. The repeated and inexplicable buffs to the blooodthirsters and subsequent loss of battalions have essentially ruined it, but at it's core it represents the pinnacle of army book design. I grieve with the knowledge that we will likely never see another book to match it again.
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On 10/11/2021 at 8:49 AM, Kaleb Daark said:
without trawling back through pages, is the brass stampede worth taking. By that I mean the old juggers with more juggers and a side order of juggers rather than the batalion that is no more - how does it fare in third?
its only...
well..
Juggarnauts anonymous isn't holding any meetings at the moment and..
I haven't tried them yet but based on pure theory I don't think they're going to be too great. In 2nd you could go for 6 crusher units to maximize your mortal wounds, but in 3rd you'll suffer from serious coherency issues once you go over 5 models. Combined with all of their weapons being 1" (seriously, why are bloodglaives not 2"?) you're generally going to want to run 3 man units, and at that size you're never really going to do a ton of damage. They're excellent tanks when you give them a +1 to their save, but you can only do that on 2 units (3 if you have a wizard and you can cast mystic shield), so all the extra units will 'only' have a 3+.
On the other hand they do count as 2 models each for objectives and you could run just a bunch of 3 man units to snag objectives and be obnoxious to remove. Maybe 6 units backed up by Skarbrand and a wrath of khorne bloodthirster in reapers of vengeance could work? Or if you went with 5 units where one is 6 skullcrushers you could fit most of the list into a battle regiment. If you do give them a shot let us know how it goes, I'd love to have an excuse to pick up a few more boxes of them haha.
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3 hours ago, MarkK said:
As for details on the miniatures, necron warriors or nighthaunts are a breeze to paint and look great, whereas something like Nurgle mortals need a lot more attention before I would be happy with them.
Great point as I've painted both of these recently. I picked up some necrons last year and had a great time painting them. Simple models but striking when painted and lined up together. I continued the collection and have a decent sized force now despite never really playing 40k simply because they were so easy to work with. Death guard on the other hand were bought to play kill team. I've loved painting them as well and they're amazing models, but the poxwalkers in particular convinced me I never want to buy a full death guard army. So much detail and complexity in what are supposed to be simple cheap chaff. Hours to paint the equivalent of a goblin expanded out to 60 or so for a typical army... No thanks man. They're beautiful but I'm good with just one box.
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The worst unit for detail I've had the displeasure of painting is Myari's Purifiers from Underworlds. I've been staring at them for weeks trying to come up with an alternate scheme and I keep finding more little details and bits/bobs that frustrate me to no end. Doesn't help that I just don't like the lumineth aesthetic either.
There is definitely something to be said for model simplicity. It's one of the things I appreciated about warmachine/hordes when I played it for a few years. The larger, flatter spaces were a breath of fresh air coming from 40k and I felt they gave me a lot more room to improve my painting skills instead of just my attention to detail. I think the largest jump in the quality of my paint jobs happened during my time with those games.
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Since it seems pretty likely that we get a book sometime soon I've been mulling over the future of Nurgle. I've been really fighting the urge to go on a spending spree lately because there's so much uncertainty with a new book, but I thought maybe we can figure out at least a little of what's coming based on what we've seen from the new 3rd edition books. These are my thoughts so far:
1. Warscroll command abilities are likely to get removed and replaced with an enhancement list of once per game options. This will likely have pretty huge ramifications as the Great Unclean One, Glottkin, and Harbinger all have excellent abilities. I wouldn't be surprised to see them move to the list of once per game abilities, but losing them on the Glottkin and Harbinger in particular will massively affect the viability of those models. I assume their stats will get tuned up or cost decreased significantly, it's hard to see how they'd be viable without a full rework.
2. Artifact and command trait lists will be trimmed down significantly. I can't see this being a problem as there were only 2-3 viable from each list to begin with. Hopefully the witherstave makes it through the transition.
3. Sub factions will be trimmed down to a simple ability with no artifact or command trait. This could be the most problematic as we seem to be crutching pretty hard on Munificent Wanderers right now, with One Last Gift being particularly important. It's possible that could shift over to the main ability for the sub faction, but I'm still worried.
4. This one is less concrete, but based on the trend with stormcast we may see warscrolls being generally simplified and made a little more lethal. Rend 1 on blight kings seems like a near guarantee to me, and we could easily see the loss of Virulent Discharge in exchange for simpler/more consistent healing. Daemons could also lose their individual locus abilities in exchange for a universal one similar to other chaos books.
5. As always I'd expect a general shakeup in builds/effectiveness. For example the GUO with bell/blade is the default choice, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf to the bell and a massive buff to the combat power of the sword/flail option. Pusgoyle blightlords might see a big buff (maybe they'll be similar to the dragon riders?) while plague drones get a nerf. Maybe the maggoth lords will finally be viable with the addition of the monster keyword and a couple other changes.
Does this all sound reasonable? Is there anything glaring I'm missing from the Stormcast/Orc books that might have a significant effect on the faction?
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1 hour ago, nuttyknatty said:
Apologies to all, but I just can’t understand how something like this gets people so heated.
I can understand why it’s disappointing but really, the level of hyperbole is eyebrow raising. I think the word here is perspective.
We have to spend some money to access some work that someone has produced. The fact that for the last six years we’ve not had to pay for it shouldn’t be a source of negativity. On the contrary, we should be appreciative that we had it for free for so long.Fair enough if you’ve got a political argument against capitalism, but I’d wager that the majority of GW’s customers aren’t either communists or anarchists, so trying to argue that stuff should be free glaringly looks like entitlement.
But I may well be wrong.🤷🏼♂️
I think others have put it well on the app thread, but to summarize their thoughts it seems to fall into a question of value. Part of the value of the game has always been access to the free resources like warscrolls and the app. With those components being removed, the value of the game itself drops (and the amount it drops is unique to everyone). For most people it won't be enough to give up on the game, it's just another inconvenience that can be worked around. For some that were already unsure about the value of the game it's just the tipping point that makes them decide to move on. It's not overly surprising, there have been a lot of issues recently with GW policy (rapid battletome releases, multiple supplements, extremely erratic balance levels, and the inevitable turmoil that occurs with every edition change) that are bound to make most people question their stance on the game. I don't think it's going to be the thing that makes me quit, but I can certainly see why it's just too much for some. I'm certainly thinking I'll be taking a bit of a break for a while though, just no desire to pick up any new models right now.
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6 hours ago, CarkFish said:
Evening chaos chaps! .... Quick question if someone would be kind enough to advise me....
Start of combat phase
- Chaos lord uses spurred by the gods on varanguard
- Varanguard fight
- Varanguard use their own second fight
- Varanguard use spurred by the gods to fight a third timeDoes this work?
Obviously im assuming they survive the fight backs
Nope, you need to read the abilities. Both specify they only trigger after the unit has fought for the first time, and both say that it allows the unit to fight for a second time (not third). Since you can't trigger either after the unit has fought for the second time in a phase you'll only ever get to fight twice.
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1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:
Yeah tbf your not wrong with the last bit
Wont tzeentch marked Iron golems pretty much always be a better choice than warriors now? Between coherency and just generally having bad weapon profiles they don't do any damage so survivability is there only thing. Iron golems will keep the plus 1 to save under 10 units and are much cheaper.
Edit: Well I guess warriors have 2 wounds each but your definitely paying for it.
Well if we ignore offensive capability completely warriors are 10 points per wound and, assuming shields because why wouldn't you, a 5+ shrug vs mortals. Iron golems are 7.5 points per wound with no shrug but can get a 6+ from the warshrine. I think the two are a lot closer now but warriors do still have a place. They don't need the warshrine to babysit them, and they're going to be easier to fit in the mark of tzeentch bubble (should be a slightly smaller foot print for a comparable amount of wounds). I think the benefit of the golems is the ability to take them in smaller sizes than the warriors and being more flexible on the board.
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1 hour ago, The Red King said:
But the warshrine only benefits allied S2D units like the prince and maybe a chaos lord or something.
With his warscroll prayer yeah (although, not the prince since he isn't mortal), but you can still give him a prayer from the khorne book and of course the judgement. Since he can only chant one thing at a time anyway it shouldn't be much of an issue. Turn 1 is the skulls, then turns 2-3 are using the khorne book prayer or putting the skulls back up. Late game he tosses the prayer of undivided from his warscroll on himself and goes to wreck face somewhere with full rerolls.
2 hours ago, PivotalCar said:Absolutely. Just as long as that priest is the warshine and not the slaughterpriest lol.
Skulls are also the only judgment worth it these days. Icon is trash, and axe is way too expensive.
Honestly I'm thinking the axe might actually be worth it. It's moving every hero phase and tossing out 2-3 d3 mortal wounds per turn. If you manage to get it into the back line with support heroes it could shred them pretty quickly. It only pops if you roll a 6 on the roll to check after it finishes moving, so it's pretty likely to stick around for quite a while. It's tough to be sure though, it'll need some play time for sure. The biggest issue is skulls are so valuable that you typically want to take them first, so an axe might dictate that you need a second priest which is extremely hard to justify.
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1 hour ago, Ragest said:
We are already seeing the answer with 2 rend brutes and stormcast
This is the biggest thing, as far as I can tell there is a big uptick in rend available for the warscrolls that are leaking. The worst part about that is it looks like we're heading to a have/have not era where 3rd edition books are fully equipped to deal with all the meta boogymen while the ones with 2nd edition books languish and barely hang on with weird outdated combos. It's been happening in 40k for about a year now and I was really hoping it wouldn't come to AoS.
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28 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:
My take, as I said, is that they will rework Sub Allegiances (maybe also new core battallions and secondary missions dedicated).
And I hope in a power up.They did specifically mention core battalions in the announcement, so they should definitely be in there. I'm really curious what they're going to look like since we're not really missing anything like SoB were. It'll be the first real look into what they're planning on for the core battalion system, could be anything from a simple repackage of the existing ones that let you take different combinations (like a warlord battalion that doesn't require any sub commanders but needs 3 troops) to full blown warscroll battalion abilities.
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Wont tzeentch marked Iron golems pretty much always be a better choice than warriors now? Between coherency and just generally having bad weapon profiles they don't do any damage so survivability is there only thing. Iron golems will keep the plus 1 to save under 10 units and are much cheaper.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Yeah, the rule says to add 1 to the attacks of khorne units wholly within 16". Since he's always within range of himself he gets the extra attack. For him to not affect himself there would have to be an exception in the rule like the wrathmongers.