[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

18 minutes ago, Xasz said:

They'll never hit back and even if they do the damage output is not that threatening.

Big units of Reavers might seem nice on paper, especially with all the other hordes running around, but they lack the fundamentals of an effective blob unit (recursiveness or reasonable saves, reach, battleshock resistance...).

Personally, I deem them somewhat of a noob-trap (all the fluff about hordes of Reavers rushing across the battlefield is not helping...), if you expect anything more of them  than being chaff (at which they excel at), you'll be sorely disappointed.

To be fair, I agree completely with you. For those who like Reavers, that's all fine, but I can't see them as anything more as a body wall, and not a terribly effective one at that either. With the Goretide you can at least park them in annoying spots, but that's about it. Especially the lack of Battleshock Resistance is what annoys me. Basically they are the one unit who really is hurt the most by the Bloodsecrator's loss of Battleshock Immunity bubble. At 70 points per 10, I feel Bloodreavers could have gained the ability to either become Battleshock Immume at 20+ or be Battleshock Immume when in range of the Totem. Either would have made more sence as to what they do now.

So far the most competitive results I've seen still have been Tyrants of Blood Battallion and for Mortals one of the three Battalions that can include quite a lot of units. The hammer and anvil approach still seems to work the best there. While initially I wanted to add a Bloodthirster to such Mortal armies, I now see that usually it's better to invest more into either Skullreapers for the hammer or Skullcrushers for the anvil. It's neat. 

Adding Bloodreavers for me is only really done if a Battalion would require it.

 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

15 minutes ago, ledha said:

I participated at a 26-man tournament in Paris this sunday, where i finished 3rd with a Slaughterborn list. Is anyone interested by a quick rundown ?

Congrats to that and certainly, feel free to always share!

Cheers,

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Just now, Darksteve said:

If in GHB 2019 they lower skullcannons to 105 ppm they will be as good as they were pre FAQ. Here's holding out hope for viable artillery for my army

105 would be weird. But 100 should do. Still nothing amazing but a way easier fit.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

31 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

It feels kind of bad that running tanky guys into the enemy is one of our only tactics. I get that Khorne does one thing, Khorne things, but I think from a gameplay option it would be nice to have more movement/strategic options. 

Like 10x reapers with 5xWrathmonger behind them is pretty awesome, but it's so slow and expensive that it's hard to even get to fun part. But I do love that combo. Bronzed flesh on the Reapers and then the Wrathmongers can hit from behind because 2inch range.

It is. We don't really do Khorne things either, as our biggest plus actually comes from the not melee orientated Slaughterpriests, with the not endless spells Khorne Judgements. Again, there is nothing linking the lore to this army, just nothing. They didn't even bother to change the Wrathmonger lore to reflect their current design. Somehow they still drive opponents into a frenzy aswell, killing friend or foe... They don't do this, they used to...

I don't think 10 Bloodreavers are actually a good deal at 70 at all. I agree with you that Wrathmongers are pretty good with Skullreapers. We have some decent units in a vacume, but we litterly cannot do anything against ranged offense currently. Those Adepticon lists for example are capable of eating any Khorne army alive.

What we do have is Tyrants of Blood, which can be very scary if the opponent doesn't run any meaningfull ranged attack units. So that aspect of Khorne I'd say is still somewhat scary. Though as we know, Bloodthirsters go down quite quickly. Stuff like Bloodreavers or Wrathmongers funnily enough is lethal to Bloodthirsters for example, regardless if they actually strike first or not.

28 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

The whole Skullcannon thing continuesto bug me. They should have taken the time, after realizing that they wanted to nerf them, to realize they are too expensive. 

A simple fix would be to change Mongers to melee attacks but then also lower the Cannons points to like 120... instead they are completely dead. 

There are many more things that again prove how little the designer was interested in doing this Khorne book.

Valkia is described as a Daemon Princess, or half Mortal. But does not have both Keywords.
Juggernauts are mentioned as Daemons, but neither the Khorne Lord who rides it or the Skullcrushers have both Mortal and Daemon Keywords.
Khul cannot lead the Goretide and have bonus abilities, despite it being his army.
Mighty Lord of Khorne and Khul both have a Fleshhound, treated as a mount this time, and still do not have both Mortal and Daemon Keywords.

As before nothing really good has actually come forth of the the Khorne book updates lol. I guess the only thing that's sort of scary now is that we indeed can run 4 Bloodthirsters and if your opponent wasn't prepaired he's going to lose Key units. Maby.

25 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

GHB 19 is almost around the corner, point changes will be expected.

I can assure you the only things for Khorne I expect there is that Tyrants of Blood will cost 180 and Bloodreavers might go to 60 or a bigger discount at 40.
The last 3 years the Skullcannon has been utter useless since AoS' inception. 

The sad thing remains is that Khorne has no ways to move up quickly. I was under the assumption that this was purposefully done because the Skullcannon became a viable unit for a week. Though after 3 years of Khorne updates appearantly someone decided one week of Skullcannons being okay was enough. 

Meanwhile 9 Warplock Jezzails in Skaven are cool and 3-4 Bolt Throwers in Stormcast are cool. Nice.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

17 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Yeah I was using bloodwarriors to try and break the lines but it was still hard. 

One game I played freeguild and I think that's just a hard counter to Khorne. He went heavy shooting and because we are so slow he was able to set up on objectives and then never move and get all his bonuses. Plus shoot again when I charged. Stormcast has also been difficult but maybe Freeguild are just a hard counter. 

Slow armies suffer from this, we can't really interact due to that wonderful FAQ.

We basically can work against Magic, but need opponents to basically not shoot. Consider Slaughterborn with Goretide, hope to survive and not have opponents be able to teleport or quickly move said ranged units. 6 Skullcrushers could help too.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I got some games in this weekend and I felt pretty helpless against shooting armies. 

Some of hardest hitting units are so slow, our battalions offer no movement shenanigans and BTs are so squishy. 

Does anyone have any advice? At this point it almost seems better to have a 6xblood crusher unit than a WoK BT

Old advice: bring some ranged support with Wrathmongers and Skullcannons

New advice: we don't have any good interaction. The best thing we can do is likely 2x 10 Blood Warriors to scoot up with Goretide Comman Ability and hope your key stuff sort of survives and your opponent can't screen these Blood Warriors.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:20 AM, MOMUS said:

No. The reason is the designer simply didn't know the rules.

This is the same designer who (at one of the bigger tournaments last year) didn't know the effects of the bloodsecrator banner and incorrectly ruled against the brazen rune range - even though it was in the FAQ at the time.

Im glad it's been corrected, now we don't have to chat about the ugliest model in the army.

If thats actually the case I would say the designer in function shouldn't really create Warscrolls anymore. Let alone have a hand in creating Battletomes.
AoS is a very simple game with very straight up core rules. As @Xasz has mentioned it is allready quite clear that the creator didn't gave two cents about it, but then to alter it makes it all the more strange.

I don't think it's a good evolution of the game if only what some precieve to be cool models have actual decent Warscrolls. In addition if they where able to copy paste "Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly KHORNE units " twice I think the designer might need a new keyboard to allow him to copy pase it another time...

Long story short is that to me the creation of this book feels rubbish, because it's the third time they have done it and overall the army just got to be slower and worse in melee. The ranged support added another dimension to the army, that is gone now, for anything other as Slaughterpriests and Khorne Judgements.

2 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Some of you may be interested in my latest Faction Focus: Blades of Khorne, hot off the press.

I recently caught up with some of Australia's top Blades of Khorne players inc. Matt Campbell who won CanCon 2019 (220 player event) with Khorne and Pat Neven who played Khorne at the Australian Masters 2018... we talk through the new book, army building, advanced tactics, and more.

 

Cheers! Thanks for sharing! Will certainly give it a good watch.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

3 hours ago, Darksteve said:

I wonder why they walked back their claim after one of the rules designers claimed it was intentional. 

Because they wanted to sell at least some stock of the model and decided enough was enough I guess.
I'm not dissapointed at the change, I am dissapointed that this is the third Khorne book, where minor changes are made and some hat at GW manages to make a Warscroll mistake. 

It is what it is, guess we just thake a Bloodthirster into every list now, shooting away a small chaff screen isn't an option anymore. It does make you wonder though, why did we lose this many speed buffs then? 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

38 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

I thought this as well, but actually the Asp. Deathbringer bubble might not be so superior after all. If you only cover 5 Skullreapers, the extra dmg output from the Exalted Deathbringer (equipped with MotD for 7, 9 or 10 attacks), still comes out on top, and it doesn't require a command point either. If you cover 10, then sure, more attacks, but will you get them all in b2b contact? Compared to a single character.

Important anecdotal data: Last weekend my Exalted Deathbringer bravely ran up to a Vampire Lord on Dragon and chucked his spear into that skinny belly, finishing him off and getting me back into the game. The Dragon was newly bloodboiled and down to 4 wounds, but still! Mortal Wounds come in quite handy against a Mystic Shielded 3+ save that ignores rend. 

With his own 12" bubble it should be relatively easy to cover all 10, while I do agree that not all 10 might meet b2b contact with the opponent I would say a fair assumption remains that you will at least be able to find space for about 7 of them. At that time I'd say he's most certainly worth it. In addition to that the Asp Deathbringer has a 3" melee weapon aswell. While it lacks rend, you should be able to affect the unit and have him swinging at something aswell. For sure positioning is important and yes, as above, I do agree it will differ per unit.

f the hero isn't going to be dedicated to a unit you could indeed run the Exalted Deathrbinger with Spear and I would say it generally shouldn't dissapoint as long as it isn't the general  but then again, similar results in terms of MW would be gained when you place an Asp Deathbringer near the Skullreapers. Afterall, their chances to do MW are higher as those are for the Ex Deathbringer with Spear, as one is on hit and the other on wound.

Long story short however is that both are excellent choices at 80 points. It's the armylist context that will make the difference.

27 minutes ago, Easytyger said:

I don't think there is much to FAQ honestly. Unless they expressly do not intend Reapers to work with Tyrants I don't think this needs any FAQ.  Rules as written it works. It's not really broken either. It is so CP heavy to use you may get one turn with multiple BTs able to fight twice but after that you'll be out of CPs. Aside from Skarbrand and the Exalted BT unbuffed BTs aren't even that Killy for their points. Many close combat armies get very explosive combat phases such Gristlegore FEC/DoK/Hightide Idoneth.

Agree think they intended Wrathmongers to effect all attacks. Back to the shelf go the Skullcannons if it is errated.

Crimson crown is likely only CAs actually on Warscrolls so no Slaughterhost CAs which is still really good. 

While I agree with you, there are many discussions revolving around these subjects. Much like I believe the Bloodsecrator was never really that overpowered, it did see 5 changes in total before it became what it is now  Likewise being able to slingshot like the old Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster did wasn't that overpowered either, yet we do see it's completely removed aswell.

All I can really say about AoS (Khorne) is that certain errata's and faq's feel very subjective to how a particular part of the community feels about, regardless if it is actually problematic.  As a result I don't hope to see many changes in the errata/faq either, but it would be nice if GW covered it to make that point clear.

 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

3 hours ago, 123lac said:

Anyone use the E/Deathbringer with Axe and Skullgouger?

No not really, the model is very cool to use for all kinds of conversions though. In both cases I think there can be said something for either Exalted Deathbringer.

I don't think the 2+ Magic save is all that important because a good opponent will focus on more essential support heroes anyway. Which also brings me to their use, I think Exalted Deathrbingers are fine choices, but now there are (in my opinion) slighty more reasons to consider a Aspiring Deathbringer instead. For sure the Aspiring Deathbringer lacks in combat what the Exalteds can do, but if you are going to dedicate a hero to a unit, I'd consider one who adds more attacks, much like the Bloodsecrator does. It does depend on the unit he's with offcourse, but when I'm thinking dedicated support I'm thinking Skullreapers or Skullcrushers. 
If I had to pick a favourite Exalted Deathbringer it would be the one with the Impaling Spear. It's only a few extra casualties but a couple of lucky wound rolls can make the difference and we do not have that many heroes who dish out MW on the attack anyway. 

Other than that I'm also looking forward to the FAQ/Errata, there are some things unclear to me about certain abilities resolving. Such as Reapers of Vengeance's Command Ability and Tyrants of Blood. I think they should work on top of each other, but I do not know if this is GW's intend.

I do believe that the Wrathmongers actually are intended to make Skullcannons work well. Prime reason why I believe this is that GW has been very consistent with their wording throughout this book. So the exception likely means they have considered it. On top of that, removing the ranged support for Khorne would indeed add a handicap. For other than Bloodthirsters we have very few ways of passing 'chaff screens', even less so now because of much more restricted movement bonusses.

By Fyreslayer comparison our Endless Prayers/Spells w.e. are also nice but not totally game breaking. The funny part of this is that the Hexgorger Skulls are actually the only piece that really has some impact on the meta as a whole, and even then, not all armies rely on Magic to begin with. This is also why Skullcannons simply said have become an important piece to me.

I also think the Crimson Crown is intended to use on Command Abilities printed on the Warscroll. But the sad part is that we then can't combine it with Host Command Abilities and it basically only then does something for Bloodthirsters. 

In the end I'm also still missing the Daemon Keyword on Khorgos Khul's Fleshhound, Cav on Juggernauts and even Valkia this time...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Cheers lads, good to see the lists flow!

11 hours ago, Kaz said:

Now I’ve checked it out a bit, I prefer the blood Throne. Not just for Gorethunder Cohort. I feel it’s hitting power is greater than Bloodmaster and Skullmaster. I also feel it’s got more utility, thanks to the 12 inch range on its command abilities (basically its new rule lets us treat it as the general for purposes of measuring range). Add that to bigger footprint, and I felt that I could spread out my Daemons more. It’s fast too, and can keep up with my Bloodcrusher hammer. It’s also durable enough to tank sniping attempts (Skullmaster should be fine too, but Bloodmaster will get squashed by the sniping tech out there). 

Having larger bubble of locus of fury is also nice. In general, he can play double duty, buffing both close combat units and the skull Cannons following close behind. 

I also like the fact that it’s very independent of artifacts. He honestly does not need any artifacts. Or at least he’s great with almost any artifact you want. 

My overall verdict? For its points, I honestly like it a lot. Also, I’m looking to try a Skullseeker Host, which requires a Blood throne. 

I personally don't think the Command Ability effect on it is all to usefull. For the simple reason that I believe most lists will run 5-6 Heroes anyway and due to the bubbles most of them will focus on one to two particular units, thus making quite sure they can be close enough if you want to.
While the footprint is indeed the big advantage it has I still think that if you want to use  a Bloodcrusher hammer a Skullmaster does more. For the simple added impact hits and the full re-rolls to hit he has once he charges. When is there, he's also in range for all the Command Abilities the units want from him  

Typically speaking I think that for Gorthunder you kind of have to include him because you do. I'm personally not that big on Skullseeker host, but then again I feel this way about more Khorne Daemon Battalions. They require inclusions that arn't that amazing by themselves. Personally I feel there are just two units in our book which I don't think are worth the effort, those being the Herald on Blood Throne and units of 20+ Bloodreavers.

Neither Skullmaster or Throne is hard to remove, but having a rather easy to remove model be on such a large base isn't really my thing. Prime reason being that due to not being able to fly it isn't easy for it to pick it's own battles. Likewise when it does, it's impact is rather minimal.  By comparison it's much easier to scoot a Bloodthirster, Skullmaster or even Skulltaker in there. Again though if you have a report where it outpreforms the others, feel free to share. As is to me it looks like a big chunky model without the damage output or manouvreability to get there.

It theoretically supports slighty better as other heroes but the way our lists form is that we have plenty support heroes that can also preform that role.

4 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Thoughts on this mixed list? Taking everyone's comments on board I've included a skull cannon to trail behind the Wrathmongers who support the Skullreapers, along with the Deathbringer & stoker. The Bloodsecrator & Bloodthirster will support the Bloodletters so there are two self sufficient death stars for the opponent to deal with, not to mention 2 x  slaughterpriests and 15 x flesh hounds for support as needed.

I struggled with the best Slaughterhost and could easily have gone any of them really but I think Reapers is the way to go, mainly so the letters or thirster can attack twice.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (140)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Flesh Hounds (200)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
1 x Skull Cannons (140)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

It looks really cool to me. Not thaking a Battalion usually allows us to include Bloodletters and a Bloodthirster.

At the same time, one of the conclusions I've also come to is that at this point, thaking 2x 30 Bloodletters might actually be better. Prime reason being that there still are enough support heroes to preform a similar role the Bloodthirster has but you become much more resistant to ranged armies. Which will otherwise point out the Bloodthirster with ease as your unlikely to start the game, due to drops.

Other than that I really like the list. Just consider what it can do with double Bloodletter bombs. At this moment Murderhost feels a little on the expensive side, but adding 2" to charge and run rolls is scary and it's easy to miss how immensely crazy it becomes when two Bloodletter bombs fight again. In the end a simple Bloodmaster can wear the Crown too afterall...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

So basically skull cannons are the best thing ever.

Well, thirsters already shoot so we can have thirster battalion+cannons+mongers "gunline". Thirster battalion will take care about anything melee-related by itself. Letters for filler.

Well they are good ranged support. Can't say they are the best thing ever, but they are good, with Wrathmongers. If you somehow manage to get them in range of Locus of Fury, then they become REALLY GOOD  

But I don't know why some are still down on the new book? Wrathmongers are brilliant support units with a bite, I can't say there is anything wrong with that. On the FB some guys don't believe Skullreapers are good, but the simple fact is that they are.

Khorne is a great army when you factor in the ranged support or go mass Bloodthirsters. Anything in between is good as long as it has some ranged support. Be it from Judgements of Khorne or Slaughterpriests or Skullcannons.

Basically the only thing that is harder to use (but still very good) is Bloodletters. They are worth the 300 for 30, but there are few ways to increase their speed. Thus maing that double combat work out for them can be hard. However if you skip on a Battalion altogether you will suddenly find the room for them and then they are amazing with a dedicated Bloodsecrator.

If people want to see lists or something, I'm open to anything to show some perspectives. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

7 hours ago, Xasz said:

FEC and SCE double activation is a lot easier to pull off.

You got it backwards with the buffs, we have to go for self-sufficient units because Khorne buffs got weaker and/or buffing range is pretty unforgiving now. 

Huh I can't really agree with that at all, but I would love to know how you came to that conclusion really.

The way I see it, the double activation is easily there for Daemons, just go for the right host. Likewise I do not agree that buffing got weaker or the range being weaker. If anything we have acces to more buffs thanks to the hosts, the only thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the bubbles. Which isn't hard to do as you can pre-meassure all you want. I guess some need to get it into their system, but as someone who played Warmachine aswell it's an easy step to checking 16" from most of your characters.

Skipping on the buffs is a bad plan in general, as there is a massive reward to playing 2 Slaughterpriests and I wouldn't ever leave without thaking a Bloodsecrator unless I'm playing 3-4 Bloodthirsters who buff themselves. 

8 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

While the previous book felt like it was about stacking buffs onto something to make it ultimate blender this one feels like it's about taking punchy things that are good on their own and just punch with them more often through the various double fight and pseudo double fight abilities.

Like why even buff reapers,  thirsters or crushers when they already do everything from allegiance+battalion alone? The only ones who scale well off buffs are the battleline dudes: warriors and letters.

If only we weren't so damn slow. Feels like either thirsters, goretide warriors or cannons+mongers are mandatory. Maybe use chaos knights?

It's still there though. We indeed got slower and we gained good ranged support. In short this is the only difference.

Don't be mad at including Slaughterpriests, Judgements of Khorne or Skullcannons, if you don't want to, you can include 3-4 Bloodthirsters instead.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

@medivouk looks like a fun list to me, do wish you could get some more bodies in there, but it is what it is for this particular Battalion. If your club isn't hyper competitive I think your generally ready to go. I don't think you really need/want that third Skullcannon. A lot of this list also hinges on that Bloodletter bomb. Everytime I start a Daemon heavy list I turn to Tyrants of Blood or skip the Battalion so I can include two units of Bloodletters. So feel free to let us know how it went down. 

 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

34 minutes ago, Kaz said:

As  far as daemons are concerned, flesh Hounds are kinda meh for me. Losing locus was a huge pain, and their damage is a bit low. 4+ to wound, and Bloodstoker can’t buff them anymore. However, like you said, I feel they make good objective grabbers. They’re decently fast, and the 30 inch unbind range means they can contribute unbind from A LONGGG DISTANCE. 

Bloodcrushers are a nice hammer. I haven’t tested them too much yet.

I’m gonna Test the Blood Throne out a bit , I’m curious to see whether the changes, it’s got a new special rule, make it good. 

I largely agree with you, much of the above is indeed a similar vision  

On the Fleshhounds however I do agree that losing focus is a bit of a downside, at the same time however I think they are still very good and Battleline, which wasn't the case before either. The Bloodstoker and Wrath of Khorne Command Ability indeed are losses to this army, but it's because of this that ranged support feels so important. I do not really feel Slaughterpriests are stuck to the altar. To me it just means that early game there is no risk to them and lategame there might be, but it's worth the effort. They last a lot longer now, also when they randomly roll a 1.

Let us know what your experience with the Blood Throne is, I'm interested in that. To me it seems the Skullmaster is just better, even though he has a lower wound count. To me the impact of him seems more usefull allround. I don't think the Blood Throne is worth the cost, I wish they would have given it a Blood Blessing. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

On 4/4/2019 at 2:31 PM, Warbossironteef said:

Guys... how many of us have played the new book in a Tournament? How many people have actually tried out all the new battalions and combos in a "competitive" setting? I would try not to say things like this because we just don't know. 

For example, no one is talking about Bloodforged. I feel like it could be very powerful. Wrathmongers are cheap and have 2 inch range, making it easier to get 10 guys into combat. 10 guys attacking twice? yes please. I also think a buffed up unit of 10-15 Bloodwarriors in Goretide is very competitive. Khorne lacks movement, but with a bloodstoker and Goretide, woooaahh momma. Also, how many people have played with a Goretide Chaos Lord? With Demionsal Blade he hits super hard, is cheaper than a BT, faster than a BT, and his main weapons don't degrade with damage. 

I'm not saying I'm right, because I dont have all the below models to test, but my point is, keep the faith brothers. Keep trying things and don't make big sweeping judgements that others might take the wrong way. I think something like the below could have a lot of potential. 

*Goretide*

Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)
- Flail & Lance
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Skullgrinder (80)
Bloodstoker (80)

15 x Blood Warriors (300)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Wrathmongers (280)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
10 x Skullreapers (360)

Bloodforged (120)
TOTAL: 1950/2000

I largely agree with you that the book is still fresh for most of us. At the same time however, a lot of the Battalions lead to something similar as it used to do. Examples being that if you have had succes with Council of Blood, chances are you will have even more succes with Tyrants of Blood. If anything this is because Tyrants of Blood brings the same army concept but is simply said MUCH BETTER. Having said that Tyrants of Blood still focusses on Bloodthirsters and their massive weakness to ranged attacks hasn't been removed whatsoever. 
The same applies to the always good, Gore Pilgrims. With Slaughterpriests gaining tools they never had, running a similar army again has become much better.
To me the only Battalions that really left are those who are now 'completely within buffs' relying on 1 or 2 Heroes. The bubble vs aura difference is too massive to really make much of it. It's because of this I sadly don't like Murderhost anymore. Killing the sole Bloodletter Hero basically resolves that whole Battalion being an issue. Even minor ranged support can do that. So it's a massive uphill battle versus pretty much every Order army that aims for a competitive list aswell.

What I fully agree with is that many arn't talking about several other Battalions that also are very interesting. Bloodforged included. There is however a true catch to this aswell, at least in my opinion. Because it's certainly great to have Wrathmongers but at the same time I feel they are so great because they are support units+. Meaning they can both support and melee combat rather well. Focussing on the for melee only however makes them inferior to Skullreapers to me. They still only have a 5+ save, so there will be many chaff units who can chew through them. IF you want to focus on them however, I wouldn't ever skip on Skarr here, because that whole 'they die easy' has an upside if they just swing (again).

Having said that all, I like your list, but I don't like the complete absence of ranged support here. Be it in the form of Skullcannons or Khorne Judgements. We arn't nearly as fast as we used to be, so we need units who force our opponents to come to us. 
 

On 4/4/2019 at 3:08 PM, Draakur said:

So I’m curious - of the Bloodthunder Stampede, Brass Stampede and Blood Hunt, what looks like it might be the most useful/viable battalion to build around right now would we say?

I think out of those Blood Hunt is probably the best choice. The thing with both Stampedes to me is that the auto vs a 2+ role is such a marginal boost it isn't really worth the effort. While Skullcrushers are still certainly good, I also see them as more of an anvil unit as anything else. While I really liked Bloodcrushers for a little while with Wrath and Rapture, they changed  and now I really like Skullcannons over them as a shock unit. The big difference between the two is simple, Skullcannons can do it from further away and can be easily boosted by Wrathmongers.

But from those three I'd say Blood Hunt is the most solid choice. The big advantage here: Karanak is not a leader. 

On 4/4/2019 at 5:58 PM, fwlr said:

Surely if you take skullreapers you will just want wrathmongers instead because of how good they can buff up the thirsters?

As others have mentioned it's extremely hard for Wrathmongers to actually keep up with Bloodthirsters.

In addition the biggest advantage of Skullreapers to me really is that they don't need that much dedicated support, maby a single 80 point support here and you're good to go. Another big advantage they bring is having a decent armour save that can be buffed up.

Pretty much the only support I do really like for Bloodthirsters is;  more Bloodthirsters and Fleshhounds for screening. 

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I had a 2,000 point game tonight. I decided to run Bloodmad Warband. I went against a Gore Pilgrims list, so another Khorne player. It was on the map Escalation. He wont 5 victory points to my 3. I'll write my observations down below, and since both lists were Khorne, it's basically double the testing and double the learning. 

- I don't know what to think of Slaughterpriests. They're in a weird place. Tonight my opponent straight up had one camping on his altar, and had one follow his group. On the charge his group got out of range, and the other one was so far back it did nothing. Without re-rolls they're trash, I don't think the one that ran away from the altar did anything all game. It just failed every prayer and judgement summon. 

- My Slaughterpriests were within my Altar, and had re-rolls and got so many buffs off. However he charged me first and pinned me into my deployment zone due to how the terrain etc was so I couldn't kill my way out fast enough to tag any objectives so I lost. My Slaughterpriests out-performed his by like 4x, but also it was because everything was wholly within my territory but I lost the game sooooo....if the objectives AREN'T in your territory and the enemy has NO reason to come to you.....Slaughterpriests suck? I don't know. It's extremely frustrating being tied to the Altar which can't move. If you want re-rolls you more or less have 24'' inch buff bubble and once people run out of that no support, or just hope for good prayers. I say 24'' because wholly within 8'' circle around altar and another 16'' extending from the priest. 

- Judgements did nothing. For either of us. Neither of us got the axe off the entire game out of probably 4 tries between us. I got the Bleeding Icon out and it did I don't know a total of 4ish mortal wounds across the time it was out and flying around. They're super short range (16'' total threat range), hard to get off, and are they worth it? I may do 1 or 2 more games but I'm thinking no, they're pretty ******. Once again, only if your opponent comes TO YOU are they worthwhile for the reliable re-rolls and such. Otherwise they're probably not coming out and if they do it's still only a 16'' threat range. 

- Bloodreavers are still garbage. What a ****** waste of space. I hate these. I hate they're mandatory for Bloodmad. I just hate them. They're trash. They should be 10 points or free. Holy ****** I can't stand these things. 20 of mine killed 10 of his out of 40. His 30 fought back with 3 attacks each and killed 15 of my 20. Then they came in and killed maybe 3 Blood Warriors before they got wiped. All 60 Bloodreavers between us were gone by top of turn 2. Just what is the ****** point. 

- Mighty Skullcrushers are great. I didn't use them, but he used them on me and got the charge off. They did 9 mortal wounds (A unit of 6) which is 3 Brutes, 3 Wrathmongers or Skullreapers, 4 and a half Blood Warriors, 4 and a half 'Ardboyz, 9 Bloodreavers, Goblins, Skeletons, Graveguard, etc... It's just rock solid. Then all of their attacks. Then all their hoof attacks. Then they took THREE ROUNDS to fully die. They just sat there. They're really hitting hard on a charge as like a 1 time hammer and then they just TAAAANK. They're like a hammer and anvil in 1. They're pretty cool. Big like from me. 

- Blood Warriors are... fine. They're actually pretty killy if you go whole hog and give them everything. Give them all the attack buffs, give them Killing Frenzy, give them Bronzed Flesh, Whip them and they really honestly can do big work. Unbuffed they're...fine. They don't kill especially much, they die kind of easy, but they always get at least an attack in. I wish I had run Gorefists I think. I just don't know how many of those re-rolling 1's to hit really translated to real life wounds. The mortal wounds are just there. I think for an Anvil (how I am using them) the Gorefist is the way to go honestly. It's hard to tell but my gut is saying after 2 games with Axes, Gorefists are probably the way to go. 

- My Mighty Lord of Khorne whiffed so hard. He had 7 attacks with his main axe and only 1 whole attack got all the way through. That was tragic. I don't think he sucks. I'm just sad he ate the dirt so hard. 

- My Skullreapers destroyed. After all my Bloodreavers, and all 30 of my Blood Warriors are gone my Skullreapers went on to kill: 1 Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut, 1 Soulgrinder, 14 Blood Warriors, 10 Bloodletters, 1 Slaughterpriest. I believe that's 930 points. They straight up did about 55 damage (wounds) because I remembered my 6's of mortal wounds, plus I had them in a unit of 10 Killing Frenzy, Bronze Flesh, Whipped. They were re-rolling hits on the Bloodletters (10) and Blood Warriors (15 total), not the Lord or Soulgrinder, but they 1 shot those either way. They SHREDDED. It's possible they really may still be an absolute hammer. They alone deleted half his army after my warriors and reavers did jack ******. 

- Bloodmad Battalion. I don't know. I got 2 charges off and the extra attacks were fine, but like I said HE charged ME first and pinned me in and I got basically little to no benefit from the battalion the majority of the battle. Out of 4 whole battle rounds I benefited 2 or 3 whole times. I genuinely don't know if it was worth the 160 points. I could have taken Wrathmongers (I didn't) and possibly gained the same amount? Matter of fact, BECAUSE I was charged and they'd have just been there, all my guys (and..his?) would have gotten +1 attack. I'm iffy on it. I just don't know what other battalion is worth a damn. I've tried Gore Pilgrims (its fine), Skulltake (I still like it, just trying stuff out), Slaughterborn (didn't love it), Bloodmad (Idk how to feel) now, and I want to try Bloodforged. 

- I don't have a TL;DR I was just writing what I thought about what I saw. Soulgrinder didn't do anything, it goes far, has some shooting, but my Skullreapers absolutely nuked it before it got to do anything. I summoned a Bloodthirster turn 4 who didn't do anything. Maybe I could have spent my bloodtithe wiser instead of banking 8. 

- Considering running something to farm bloodtithe be it command traits, artifacts or prayers. It just seems like it comes in SO SLOW now. 

- Considering buying Daemons and running some sort of Mixed majority Daemon list. 

- Considering a trifecta of Wrath of Khorne BT, Bloodmaster, Skulltaker, and 30 bloodletters for a hammer. Combo would be Bloodletters +1 to hit (20+), re-roll all hits (WKBT CA), re-roll wound rolls of 1 (Skulltaker CA), Immediately attack 2nd (Bloodmaster with Halo + CA). Support would be Slaughterpriests (Killing Frenzy, Bronzed Flesh) and Bloodsecrator + Wrathmongers (+2 attacks yee.) 

- The above but with Reapers and running Khartoth the Bloodhunger on Bloodmaster + CA of Reapers for immediately activate Bloodletters then fight again, but only 50/50 if it's your opponents turn, whereas the other is guaranteed (unless they also have a thing with fight first). 

- Would run Flesh Hounds 2x5 Fleshhounds and probably 1x6 Bloodcrushers for the other hammer and objective grabbers. 

- Don't have Daemons yet so will need 2 start collecting boxes, wrath and rapture and a bloodthirster (Wrath of Khorne) 

Great write up man! Just some reflections and thoughts from me as feedback, hope you like it!

- Slaughterpriests are really just there for support and yeah I will say there is a tactical use to the Altar of Skulls that can easily be missed. First of all I see absolutely no reason to ever put one on top of it. There is no additional gain for that. On top of that, I think it's very important to place if very close to the center of the table as this is where Khorne armies will have their most units focused anyway (due to speed etc). 
I also fully agree with you that Slaughterpriests without re-rolls arn't good, but what it's ever more important is to keep track of the bubbles. It's how Khorne works now and the biggest difference in how we used to work. It doesn't apply to Slaughterpriests alone, it applies to everything, so continue to meassure and continue to move around with the Slaughterpriest.

- Key for all Khorne armies to focus upon with this edition is to have units who force your opponent to come to you, or be stuck. As explained in the previous post, Khorne now very much revolves around, Hammes, Anvils and Support. Most of that support should translate to 'ranged support'. Be it in Khorne Judgment form (cheap but not extrmely reliable) or Skullcannon form (costs stack up quickly).
While some might dislike it, the Skullcannon is a serious tool to be used now. I got my 3rd one for a reason, and it isn't because I'm such a fan of the model, it's because we need to draw out opponents. We lost speed.

- Agree completely on Bloodreavers. Have discussed this with others too. They arn't worth the cost, 70 for 10 is doable because it's 70 points. There isn't a single reason to ever run more. What they lack (in my opinion) is a simple rule that would make them immume to Battleshock once they number 20+.

- As long as Juggernauts can charge they have one hammer turn. Assuming opponents know what they do, they remain great Anvils  .

- Agree completely on Blood Warriors. To me Gorefists are the way to go because despite their double axe option their quality remains their number for cost and anvil properties. MW on an anvil is what we like, and they don't even have to charge for it. 10 for 200 with Gorefists and Goreglaive and Champ is a perfect deal.

- I personally don't think the Mighty Lord of Khorne is all too interesting these days, but you can offcourse include him. To me the big question always remained, what purpose does he serve now? We're paying enough here, why arn't we using a Slaughterpriest instead etc. Especially with the hosts and their great Command Abilities there is just less use for heroes who don't support too much. Funny enough I'd even say that a lot of the 80 point heroes support better as the Mighty Lord of Khorne or Khorne Lord on Juggernaut does...

- Yeah I love Skullreapers. Where with Blood Warriors I love the number 10 on them, I love that exact same number on Skullreapers. They are easy to boost, easy to make amazing and being armoured Bloodletters is just really good with every host. Only Reapers of Vengeance has no real reason to thake them and that's it  

- We have quite some Battalions who are good. Only thing I would say here is that none of them are 'broken' but they are just good additions. As we have no option to 1 drop anyway (or make a great 2 drop) I'm also going to try out many and then some lists without.

- Sad to see the Soulgrinder not doing anything. Thing is still (same with Skullcannons) that I would play him up rather aggressively. I think the biggest mistake Khorne players make is keep some units back. While we really don't need to, unless it's for objective reasons. 

+ Consider Skullcannon(s).

+ Certainly get some Daemons, even 10 Bloodletters, 5 Fleshhounds and a Bloodthirster are a great start.

+ Tyrants of Blood certainly can be amazing, if your opponent runs minimal shooting, your almost bound to win that game aswell. 

+ Double fighting with Bloodletters is incredible, the thing with Daemon Battalions is that I have created a lot of lists who aim to include them and you usually find that there is no room for them AND a Battalion...

+ Big fan of Fleshhounds, not that huge on Bloodcrushers (see Skullcannon) and indeed certainly get some additional Daemons! In reality the summonning isn't always the best choice anymore (due to not being able to spend BT for summonning like we used to).

All in all try to include a Anvil, Hammer and ranged Support for Khorne and you should be good. As mentioned I don't think Khorne Judgements are always needed. The Hexgorger Skulls are always an easy inclusion however this too depends on your meta and basically how much Magic you expect. It usually is there, it's easy to cast meaning you can usually miss the 40 points.

Cheers,

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

22 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Cheers@Killax

Its def a casual to semi-competitive list with a lot of unknowns on how it might perform. Ill be sure to put up some notes/findings on here once Ive had the chance to run it.

I can definitely see a 3rd thirster and a Tyrants list in the future but before I buy any more I want to understand the new way to play.

What Im struggling with at the moment is coming up with viable mortal/daemon mixed lists like I have in the past as there just doesnt seem to be as much interplay between the two as there was. Hence the above almost all daemon list and the all mortal chaos knight list I posted a few pages back. The wrathmonger/skull cannon combo looks decent but I only have 1 cannon which feels hard to justify the wrathmonger engineers/babysitters when there are so many other things to buff.

Are you looking at mixed lists or going down the mono path?

Cheers! Well there are many routes to go this time, much more as before in my opinion. Usually the routes I´d say are the most effective are either focused on Bloodthirsters (hammer), Bloodletters (hammer), Slaughterpriests + Khorne Judgements (support), Blood Warriors (anvil), Skullreapers (hammer), Skullcrusher (anvil) and things with Wrathmongers (support), including the Wrathmonger and Skullcannon combo. 
Most of the time an army will include two of the above mentioned strong units or more, depending how deep you want to go.

Personally I'd say there is much more interplay as before, as certain hosts certainly focus on buffing Mortals or Daemons but the Heroes who gain the Command Abilities don't need to be Mortal or Daemon ******. So the best advice I have for focussing on a host is to focus on one of the above mentioned units and create a synergy army for them to make it all work out. 

I am still looking at mixed lists very much, the only downside I see in Daemon heavy armies is that their Battalions arn't that great by Mortal Battalion comparison. The massive big fat exception there is Tyrants of Blood which is amazing.

As a rule of tumb I'd say try to follow these steps and you will be good:
HOST
- Focus on what units you like. To me there are basically 2 fantastic routes to go. Double time with Daemons or Fast Blood Warriors

LEADERS
- Include 2+ Slaughterpriests, you can always consider Khorne Judgements but I wouldn't say they are mandatory, unless your army is heavier Anvil focused
- Include  Bloodsecrator and support hero of your choice
- Consider Skarr or Valkia if you suddenly find room for it
OR
- Include 3+ Bloodthirsters and go wild with Tyrants of Blood

BATTLELINE
- Include 2x 10 Blood Warriors with Gorefists if you want to go a Mortal route
- Include 1x 30 Bloodletters and likely a unit or 2x 5 Fleshhounds if you want to go a Daemon route
- Bloodreavers can be a mandatory Battalion requirement, I'd focus as less as possible point on them
- Consider Marauders if you want a cheap Battleline filler

OTHER
- So much options here that you can really see the above list to know what to focus upon. Generally speaking I'd say Khorne Judgements are better with Anvil focused armies. Bound to get stuck into things and bound to see more profits from things like the Wrathaxe
- Consider a Soulgrinder if you want to have fun with Wrathmongers

Hope this helps, again many ways to go, much more as the old, Gore Pilgrims OR Murderhost. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

12 hours ago, Battlefury said:

What I basically own is massively reliant on non demonic units. For several games I had to lend units.
I have already noticed, that my mortal units are lack lusters, so I would have to buy demons I guess. Buggs me kind of...tbh.

The 3 Thirsters went straight up shred to pieced by deepstriking Ballistas on2 edges of the map and Evocators coming in.
Sequitors came from the front, but I didn't go for those. The Ballistas would be my target for some cheap units like Reavers, at least that was the plan in one of the games. I incrased the "chaffiness" by using Blood Warriors to lock the Ballistas in place, but that spread shot is a party pooper. Rend 2, wtf?!? After they came in, my Thirster where kind of in the middle of the map, as I had begun the game. They couldn't come up with the 10" move and then charge the Evocators. Distance was like 20" at that moment. So he then shot my thirsters, charged them with Evocators and Sequitors. Although I didn't bubble my units up, he just had enough power to wipe like 50% of my units including 2 Thirsters. Those Sequitor Hammers with Rend 1 and 2 Damage are just totally cheese. And then they reroll their hits, because fuc* you, that's why...we can load our weapons.

The lack of real damage made it kind of impossible to straight up take somewhat out, even when buffed properly. I made a lot of A, but he just saves it... .
Stormcast games are a competition called "how many 3s can you roll?". Thats absolutely broing.

It certainly seems like that. Then again, maby try Goretide with Slaughterborn. Scoot up the Warriors and see how long you can last before crashing in there. It certainly seems like it's more equiped to handle ranged armies as the 3-4 Bloodthirsters are. As they are still very much a glass cannon and thus very vunerable to a ranged heavy army. I think even Khorne with a brickload of Skullcannons could give it a bad day for example. 

At the same time blobs of Skullreapers still do amazing work. The list you're facing seems very one dimensional as is. It just sometimes happens. 

10 hours ago, Sleboda said:

It does seem that way, doesn't it?

@Killax First off, thank you (and others who are active in the discussion) for all the insights (and for pretty much sticking to the sorts of info I am seeking). A question on Tyrants of Blood. Doesn't 140 points seem a bit excessive to allow one Bloodthirster to fight early once per game seem a bit much? I mean, I get that since it's a battalion you get an extra magic item and manage your drops a bit, but that's true of all battalions. What makes one extra fight that valuable?

Cheers man! As others have mentioned, it's well worth the 140 points because you can continue to activate with your 3-4 Bloodthirsters. We could act like it's 3-8 but since most play 2K and not 4K I'd say doing it with 3 Bloodthirsters is the most common  

What I also really like with the trio of Bloodthirsters is that you can pick one of each and it nicely adds up to 900. A lot of points but well worth the killer missle it is. As above though, watch heavy ranged lists!

1 minute ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Thoughts on this (almost) all Daemon List?

All of the daemons fit into the blood host battalion which allows reroll of charges when wholly within 16" of any Bloodthirster. I figure that if you save 2 CP on rerolling charges it has paid for itself and any more then that is a bonus. Granted the Bloodletters and flesh hounds can already reroll charges but im looking at it for those essential charges for the thirsters and blood crushers.

Its 2 drops because of the priest but it seemed a shame not to include one to at least take advantage of the skull altar's rerolls.

Would probably split up one if not both of the flesh hound units as they would still fit into the battalion. 

note: This represents virtually every daemon I own, save for a Bloodmaster & Karanak, so looking for general strategy comments as opposed to list changes but all comments welcome.  

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (300)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Flesh Hounds (200)
10 x Flesh Hounds (200)
3 x Bloodcrushers (140)

Units
1 x Skull Cannons (140)

Battalions
Blood Host (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Well I'd say it looks interesting as a 2-drop. But other than that, I don't know if it's worth the 180 point investment. Starting is great but there isn't a ton of stuff to follow this up with (such as Wrathmonger and Skullcannon combinations or Khorne Judgements). 

Basically I don't know how well Khorne preforms with just 1 Slaughterpriest and 0 Bloodsecrators. The Bloodthirsters are the scary part and it feels like such a small step away from just playing Tyrants of Blood. This will certainly up your drop count but chaining Bloodthirsters is just scarier I believe. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Also! I’m gonna try out a battleshock bomb just for giggles

probably reapers of Vengeance, with bleeding icon and aspiring Deathbringer wearing skull helm, bring Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Aspect of death, then heavy focus on Daemons, with maybe some mortal battleline for a fast army that uses battleshock to wipe out enemies? Maybe bring TWO INSENSATE RAGESS? Just buff them up, deal as much AOE damage as possible, spread out the battleshock debuffs and watch them run like nuts; that’d be pretty funny 

granted, can be ignored with inspiring presence, buuuut if the whole army is suffering from it then it’s going to eat A LOT of CPs

I'd say a Tyrants of Blood with one of each flying thirster would suit this kind of match. Which would basically be decided in the early turns too hahaha. 

Blend it with a buffed unit of 6 Skullcrushers for the tarpit and I think you can get something silly  

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

10 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Any chance that the crimson crown works with the slaughterhost command ability? The wording says on the warscroll

Edit: I'd say post it to the FAQ team.

Nothing really states that the abilities are added to the Warscroll. The Keywords are gained...

Cheers!

6 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

It's a very nasty list, largely due to the ranged focus.

Having said that you could aim for a Tyrants of Blood build and do nasty things aswell. What do you want to field and what do you have? A big difference for Bloodthirsters now is that Tyrants of Blood can cascade into a all in, 'kill that target superdead'...

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

• Experiences you've repeated and seen to work vs. a variety of armies using all the AoS 2.0 rules
• Man-of-the-match sorts of recommendations - the real workhorses

So to continue  :
- So far Ive seen great results with Khorne Judgements, Bloodthirsters with Tyrants of Blood and generally speaking people love Wrathmongers. It also isn't that hard to see how this forms, Skull Altar is absolutely amazing, because it makes Slaughterpriests great and Hexgorger Skulls and Wrathaxe are arguably our main meta 'threats'. Bloodthirsters with Tyrants of Blood usually is there for the hardcore Bloodthirster fan, but it should work very well. Lastly Wrathmongers can turn pretty much anything in a scarier weapon as it used to. At least for now, as long as they work with Skullcannons.
- Lastly the true workhorses in my opinion are (not that different from before) found in three ways:

• Hammers: Skarbrand, Bloodthirsters, Bloodletters and Skullreapers
• Anvils: Blood Warriors and Skullcrushers, what is very important to note here is how well these work with the Wrathaxe to harass the unit they are 'tarpitting'
• Support (ranged): Slaughterpriests, Bloodsecrators, Aspiring Deathbringer, Wrathmongers and Skullcannons

The other units we have serve different purposes and are generally speaking good, but for now, as long as Skullcannons can be buffed by Wrathmongers (or Soulgrinders for that matter) I'd say the above are our real workhorses. For sure other named characters and Exalted Deathbringers can add to the offense for a specific battle. Likewise Bloodreavers still serve a purpose as chaff and objective holders. It's just that due to costs involved running Marauders seems better again. 

In terms of going full or heavy Daemon
You can certainly attempt/do it, but not running the Skull Altar or the Slaughterpriests does mean your handing over our strongest assets. The Tower is free, the Slaughterpriests are super cheap and as above, at least to me, essential support. 

While technically Bloodbind has become worse it's still functional, while we can't stack prayers we also don't have to worry about mortal wounds. The key reason to include them however is that most stuff works on a 4+ with a re-roll and can't be dispelled. This matters a ton. On top of that the Skull Altar serves 4 key roles:
- Make Slaughterpriests great
- Meddle with Wizards
- Free Terrain
- Act as a beacon for Summonning

47 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Thanks for the input! Man thats a real bummer about your opinion on the Skullcrushers, they were the unit I wasnt willing to change since theyre my favourate unit and the unit of 9 has done so well in my practice games! Ill try dropping them to 6 to practice for competitive games which I rarely play (I prefer semi-competitive where I use sub optimal stuff sometimes) and probably replace them with the 10 Warriors for a Bloodletter or Thirster screen/objective camping, or 10 more Hounds to fit in the Murderhost and some more speed in the list.

Gotta thank you again though, your input has been invaluable!

Cheers man! I really think Skullcrushers are a fantastic unit, however I just don't believe investing more as 360 points into them is worth the effort. Because to me those 180 additional points are better spend in a hammer unit.
Skullcrushers who get something stuck (which is what they usually will do) thanks to 2+ saves are great as is, especially with the Wrathaxe that then can scoot through oppossing units AND make them an ever tricker tarpit to tackle to due to the debuff.

Thing is however that Mortal Wound output units still excists, usually when a player plays these they will be screened. To me it's unlikely Skullcrushers will suddenly be able to break through that screen and then be save for the aftermath. It's because of this that I think 6 are sufficient. It isn't too common they will find another unit that really comes out of them in terms of costs. With 540 units I just feel uncomfortable with their seize, obvious key unit role and due to their bases I also find it very hard to functionally see the 7th to 9th Skullcrusher preform a meaningfull role. If you want to return wounds, we can heal in other ways...

3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Has anyone tried blocks of 15 BWs yet? 20 seems a bit unwieldy, but I'm considering trying  a 15 man block as a proper anvil, with Slaughterborn batallion, Bronzed flesh and the Bloodstoker buff they should be able to hold the enemy front for atleast a round while the rest of the army catches up. I know they'd be better off in Goretide, but I'm not giving up on Skullfiend tribe just yet

No I havn't I can see why you would consider it however. At the same time I also think that as mentioned above 360 points of 6 Skullcrushers with Bronzed Flesh archieve something scarier, especially with the Bloodstoker and their size.

If you want a Blood Warriors focus I would indeed look into Goretide. Both are great anvils. The big advantage of Skullcrushers is that 2+ armour save. With Goretide the Blood Warriors have that amazing run, with other hosts Skullcrushers will always be faster.

Cheers,

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

17 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

The help I need:

• Basic pitfalls to avoid
• Simple key concepts
• Experiences you've repeated and seen to work vs. a variety of armies using all the AoS 2.0 rules
• Man-of-the-match sorts of recommendations - the real workhorses

What I want to avoid:

• "These guys are worthless" sorts of input
• Exact army lists (I want to figure out most of it on my own)
• Anecdotes of "that one time my dude beat the odds" (not interested in outliers)

 

If you want to share your thoughts and tips within this framework, I'd really appreciate the help.

Offcourse the army is brand new, so giving exact responces at this time is very much with trial and error. However I do think there are some easy general concepts you can thake into account. Things that will help you get this new Blades of Khorne and really if you start this Khorne with fresh eyes it's easy to avoid the 'this is worthless', use this exact army list and 'that one time at x-con etc.'.

Basic pitfalls to avoid:
- Khorne isn't solely a melee focused army anymore at a competitive level
- Using 9 Skullcrushers means you're investing 540 points into something that isn't guaranteed to work
- Using 3 Bloodthirsters with Tyrants of Blood can be fantastic, but I'd strongly suggest getting the basic grip of this new Blades of Khorne first

Simple key concepts:
- Choose a host based on your favourite unit/unit focus, with this I basically mean, do you like Daemons or Mortals and which of those specific units do you like the most, you can mix like never before, so the focus must come from yourself
- Use 2+ Slaughterpriests, basically always consider Hexgorger Skulls and Wrathaxe, unless you are absolutely certain you wont see magic in your local meta
- Use a Bloodsecrator, consider a Bloodstoker and certainly don't shy away from the Aspiring-, Exalted Deathbringer and Skarr or Valkia, even Khul can be really good
- Units that are generally really good are the above mentioned heroes and 30 Bloodletters, 10 Blood Warriors, 5 Wrathmongers, 5+ Skullreapers and Skullcrushers, Blood Warriors and Skullcrushers are more tarpits however, Wrathmongers are our true support unit and Bloodletters and Skullreapers, next to Bloodthirsters act as hammers
- The simple AoS basic abc remains to screen, focus on key units and keep objectives

More to come later  

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

8 hours ago, Laier said:

A bit of sacrificial lambs for one priest to slaughter near the altar. Two mini-speedbumps to wrap soulgrinders. And kind of second-wave / shooting buff for soulgrinders in form of Bloodforged battalion with Skarr. Daemonprince to jump from behind with his 16" move and wreck some heroes with 4+ sword of Judgement (like Khorn knew... lol) or even heal big monsters with bloodlords ability.

Judgements for damage and tunneling-screening foes for Khorne-train.

Gamestyle will be asmuch agressive as it could be - I hope that sacrifice and Skarr will generate enought tithe fir Blood Rain or some late game summon.

What do you think?

Looks fun to me, buffing Soulgrinders is really funny with the Wrathmongers too. So you should be cool with this 40K ish Khorne list.

I am uncertain of the Daemon Prince and Bleeding Icon. I don't feel they add all that much, but other than that you seem ready to go. By dropping these units and upping that one unit of Blood Warriors to 10 I think you will get more bang for your buck.

The best aspect of this list is really being able to screen your Soulgrinders aswell, so I do think it's very worth considering focussing fully on that in combination with the Slaughterpriest trio you have going on allready. 

2 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

What do you guys think? I personally feel quite happy with this list and dont feel there is a need for massive changes. Either way, let me know!

I think the list look interesting. However I am not a fan of the Skullcrushers, less so because Murderhost even bumps up the speed of your other units.

Skullcrushers with Bronze Flesh make for a great tarpit. However there isn't a unit I can think of where all 9 will be put to use effectively. Using 6 allready creates enough of an Tarpit. While I get the whole aim for D3 mortal wounds, the unit still remains immense and personally too unwieldy for practice. In addition when they don't charge, the additional 3 on top of those 6 are guaranteed to do nothing. 

When you would drop 3, you'd suddenly find yourself with 200 points left, that will allow you to invest into something more efficient. From 10 Blood Warriors to Wrathmongers with 10 Marauders or even 10 Fleshhounds.

9 hours ago, Darksteve said:

@Killax

Sorry I may have phrased my question incorrectly. Do you run them in big untits or has msu worked fine for you. Do you find they need a buff baby sitter(so a bloodsecrator and/or wrathmonger with them as well as cannons?)

A more general question. If I have a unit of wrathmongers, in order to benefit does the unit need to be wholly within 8" of 1 wrathmonger or is the unit fine as long as all parts are wholly within one of the members of the unit. (So lets say 10 are within 1 wrathmonger model and 5 are in another)

I use one big blob of 30, rest of the army is more MSU focused. They do need a 'baby sitter' but more for Reapers of Vengeance command ability than really anything else (assuming GW inteded to give those Command Abilities to heroes and not just every unit  ) 

The unit needs to be wholly within of the other unit. Meaning that Wrathmongers can buff a 30 man unit of Bloodletters but it needs dedication. No more daisy chaining for the most part was the intention of this edition. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

23 hours ago, Darksteve said:

@Killax

How do you use bloodletters in your first wave? I've been taking msu reavers as my initial speedbumps in my cannon focused list at 1000 points, but I was curious why you thought letters made a better screen. Usually I have the spare cp to make them bs immune and at 70 point/10 they speed bump pretty well on 32mm bases.

Just move them up and force your opponent to move with 1-2 Skullcannons and 1-2 Wrathmonger units. Combined with Slaughterpriests that's pretty much all there is to it. One of the stongest aspects to Bloodletters now is Reapers of Vengeance's host who allows them to fight again. In addition to that, the key to victory with Khorne is to not solely focus on melee combat but instead use ranged support to force an opponent out and hit them over and over again.

If thats to slow for you the alternative can still be found in the Bloodlords with or without Tyrants of Blood. The prime reason why I am not big on Bloodreavers is that if we're using CP there it means key units don't get the buff that allows you to break the opponent.

The set up of 'new' Khorne is simple and very efficient, grab some Slaughterpriets, Judgements of Khorne and Skullcannons to make your opponent move. Then apply heavy blows to whatever shows up first. 

20 hours ago, jazman84 said:

And I hate it... What have they done to my Khorne?

What they have done is added tactical depth. We arn't somely good in Melee combat. We arguably have the best Priests and Spells. 

While true that Khorne never was big on Slaughterpriests, Endless Spells and ranged support in Warhammer Fantasy, in Age of Sigmar we even had Khul control a Deathstar. What I like about this book more as the previous one is the true variation and depth in choice.

A new book will always force you to reconsider the army as a whole. This has been true for all AoS2 updates.

 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

54 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

@SmileB4uDieXD They scared lol. Seriously i got into heated debate with a GW rep during a game about the new unbind rules. He was trying to say i had to give up a prayer to use unbind the way a wizard has to spend a spell cast. It took a 3rd person to agree with me based on wording there was no such rule when it comes to Khorne's unbinding. The whole thing really stemmed from what seemed to be his perception that the new rules for Khorne are just OP which isn't really the case.

The hate carries on and on when I think about it. Where before the Bloodsecrator was the center of attention some are going wild over Wrathmongers and Skullcannons.

What I will say about this Blades of Khorne is that it's the strangest version of Fantasy Khorne I've seen so far. What I mean by this is that out of all things possible we got a Scenery Piece who buffs prayers and Endless Spells. On top of that Slaughterpriests indeed do EVERYTHING for this army now  Where before the Bloodsecrator did, for as long as it could stack offcourse.

This Khorne really isn't overpowered. It is a hard awnser to armies who heavily rely on Magic however and now we do have Ranged offense.

On the flipside is that is that we do not go as fast as we used to, arn't immume to Battleshock and we need this Ranged/Prayer offense to actually work because we cannot rely solely on melee combat anymore. There are other armies who's melee combat is simply said better.