Turragor
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Posts posted by Turragor
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2 minutes ago, Maturin said:
Noice!
PS :Phoenix Reborn: In the fires of battle, the Phoenix is born anew.The first time this model is slain, before removing it from the battlefield, roll a dice. On a 1-3, this model is slain. On a 4-6, this model is not slain, all wounds allocated to it are healed, and any wounds that currently remain to be allocated to it are negated.
Wake of Fire: Streams of flames follow in the wake of this creature, engulfing the enemy in a fiery inferno.After this model has made a normal move, pick 1 enemy unit that has any models that this model passed across and roll a dice. On a 2+, that unit suffers a number of mortal wounds equal to the Wake of Fire value shown on this model’s damage table.
Oh now I see, if only you could take hydroxskin, phoenixes and stormwing drakes.
Maybe it's worth building entirely around stormwing and anvils.
Stormwingcast. Best battalion for 2 Mount traits?
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40 minutes ago, Maturin said:
Yes, let's talk about it later on, because I just made this great list for you to review ;D :
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- City: Phoenicium
LEADERS
Sorceress (90)
- Artefact : Phoenix Pinion
- Spell : Lore of the Phoenix - Golden Mist (Phoenicium Wizard)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Command Trait : Seeker of Vengeance
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
Lord-Castellant (120)
- City Role : General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
UNITS
10 x Bleakswords (90)
10 x Bleakswords (90)
10 x Bleakswords (90)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrobombers (80)
1 x Gyrobombers (80)
BEHEMOTHS
Flamespyre Phoenix (200)
Frostheart Phoenix (220)
Flamespyre Phoenix (200)
BATTALIONS
Phoenix Flight (130)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 107I wanna say that looks really cool and I have to note I have no idea how Phoenixes work now. I need to learn me some CoS.
Final word RE: stormwinged, I now realise that Anvils of the Heldenhammer's "pile in move then attack" means it triggers then too
The pile in triggers cavernous jaws too
Sooo anvils CA and a Heraldor mean you could get stormwinged off 4 times in one round.
Is it worth giving up staunch? I might test this very idea on Saturday
Edit
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
- Allies
Thunderhead Brotherhood (160)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 70 / 400
Wounds: 103
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Also, as the guys noted above, if an opponent is against this and its a friendly match, I just play the trait as "normal move" (I alter the mount trait rules).
If at a tournament, I call over a TO and explain as I wrote above (I'll now have thatpost saved
) and let them decide. I'm happy however they rule it.
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21 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
First of it is distinguishing between "normal move" and "a move", the stormwinged trait is any move. This was the case ofr Hydro-something-cloak from malign sorceries, which was FAQ'd to only be for "normal move", so the effect only triggers in the movement phase.
The storm winged trait has not been FAQ'd and as such a charge and pile in counts as "a move" and nothing stops you rule wise from lifting up the model in a pile in, move it 1" forward and backwards and end the same place, as the have to just end the move as close, or closer to the nearest model, so standing still is basically fine. Very gimmicky but absolutely within the rules.
Maybe it should be FAQ'd, but they did that to similar things in the malign soeceries FAQ, but not the stormcast FAQ, so either it is intended or they simply forgot/do not care.
Since I've advocated for this list (hard) and it includes Stormwinged (which is also popular elsewhere) I feel a responsibility to get an iron-clad case for this out there. It's stronger than merely "They FAQd a similar ability with the same wording but haven't FAQd Stormwinged".
I've written enough to qualify as rules lawyering, buuuut I think p4 of the rules is kind of simple. It's one sentence that I feel confirms that a move is something that happens in 3 phases (4 if you count hero phase moves).
Here's my full analysis:
Page 4 of the key rules booklet https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf
QuoteMOVEMENT
You can change the position of a model on the battlefield by making a move with the model. Models can be moved in the movement phase, the charge phase and the combat phase, and some abilities may allow a model to make a move in other phases too.
So rules as written, Stormwinged makes the cut.
Further, they've clarified move and normal move in multiple FAQs (not just the errata to correct hydroxskin - also included below). See "Movement Phase" here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/8f9bd00c.pdf
They differentiate between the clear phrases "when a unit moves" and "when a unit makes a normal move".
QuoteQ: Some abilities refer to a model or unit making a ‘normal move’. Does this include normal moves where the model or unit runs or retreats?
A: Yes.
&
QuoteQ: Some abilities allow a model to make a move out of sequence (in the hero phase, for example), or to make a specific type of move (a ‘6" retreat move’, for example). Can I run when I make these moves?
A: You can only run if the ability refers to making a ‘normal move’ (which includes any move made ‘as if it were the movement phase’) and the ability doesn’t specify the distance of the move. Note that the restrictions that apply to normal moves (not moving within 3" of the enemy, and having to retreat if they start within 3" of the enemy) also apply to normal moves made in any other phase. Also note that the increase to the unit’s Move characteristic for running only applies to that move.
So, for example, if the ability said ‘This unit can make a normal move’ the unit could run and could not move within 3" of the enemy unless it retreats, and if it said ‘This unit can move D6".’ then it could not run but could move within 3" of the enemy.
You can seehere: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_errata_en.pdf that they clarified the most similar rule (hydroxskin) to "normal move" (move made in the movement phase). This artefact was identical to stormwinged (except 3+ instead of 2+).
QuotePage 81 – Artefacts of Power, Relics of Chamon, Hydroxskin Cloak. Change the rules text to: ‘The bearer can fly. After the bearer has made a normal move, you can pick 1 unit that has any models that the bearer has passed across and roll a dice. On a 3+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.’
They've clarified that the use of "move" in charge and pile in is (basically) so that they could word coherency clearly:
QuoteQ: What happens when a unit that has been split into two groups because of casualties piles in?
A: A unit must finish any type of move as a single group, including pile-in moves. If this is impossible for any reason, no models from the unit can move.
Found in "combat phase": https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/8f9bd00c.pdf
And I think there's another example but I have to go make dinner for my wife and kids now
I might come back to this post if it's unclear.
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I also realise now that any hallowheart army really has a hard time against the sc stormcast due to the scions of the storm mechanic.
We can keep stuff safe and can snuff out any casters reliably
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19 minutes ago, Maturin said:
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- City: Hallowheart
LEADERS
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Artefact : Thermalrider Cloak
Sorceress (90)
- General
Battlemage (90)
Battlemage (90)
UNITS
10 x Bleakswords (90)
10 x Bleakswords (90)
10 x Bleakswords (90)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
BATTALIONS
Whitefire Retinue (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Umbral Spellportal (70)Haha I think this is a great list. Love that cloak and the gyrocopters
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21 hours ago, Malakithe said:
What stormhost, if any, would suit this kind of list? General idea is to teleport the kitties into back field stuff and birdies are quick speed bumps or tie up ranged units.
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 106
An idea I've played with is taking a large cavalry unit and Heraldor(s) as Celestial warbringers.
Mainly so you can bait opponents into misdeploying and then redeploy your big cavunit for a r1 run and charge.
It's just an idea and I've no idea how strong it is.
Astral templars provides a similar r1 shock b on bonus with the free move. The main difference is a redeploy is much stronger than a move but the templars CA has more use.
The traditional choice (anvils) might be better.
Otherwise with Castellant and LCoSD general I'm taking no host and staunch defender 90% of the time.
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8 hours ago, Maturin said:
I think the actual BT isn't perfect, but at least, we can have fun with our old 8th edition miniatures :).
Can I ask you here what combo do you have in mind for a Starcast COS thread, or do you rather I open another thread in the COS subforum ?I have a relatively low level of understanding for cos tbh and more expert opinion could ve gained from cos boards.
You could still play starcast with them I guess as the sc traits, spells and artefacts (the allegiance as a whole) aren't really where starcast is made.
I did like the idea of an emerald lifeswarm, soulscream bridge (any amplified sorcery endless spells really) and lots of the strong ranged choices, like sisters.
I think the comet and a caster and a drake (2 if possible) are good choices. I see the prime as fragile and most cos choices as also fragile so I wonder if its too glass cannon to go that way. I've no idea though.
I know hallowheart is popular but I think points intense if you take whitefire retinue?
Living city is excellent and tempests eye are good
I really have a thing for hammerhal though. Armour of mallus is good on the LCoSD (albeit worse than the living city equivalent). But I mainly like the command ability because you can attack and bite with the drake(s) a 2nd time. It doesn't say attack with the weapons it is armed with. Just attack. So you'd definitely have the option to really mess with unit coherency against even the most cautious, drake-aware opponents.
Playing starcast as we're accustomed to, Hallowheart is probably the strongest followed up by living city then hammerhal.
Tweaks to the unit composition or main play style could lead that order to change.
It's actually a fun side project. Maybe I'll get some cities units before the end of the year. I love the idea of a LCoSD with a spell with the tome artefact from hallowheart lol
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I also can't help but think, long term, GW will realise that one aspect and weapon choice is like 4 times the damage of anything else and bring it all back down to where the falchions are an "elite" better choice again.
That could take time though and I still plan on building my next 3 without.
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5 hours ago, Maturin said:
HEy @Turragor I'm starting about mixing base Starcast that is LCoSD+ castellant + Prime with my Cos Armies. There might be funny combos to make for maximum MW output!
I think there's a way to make a better list than what pure sce can, using some of the strong sc tools. I'm just trying to use sc only as cities wasn't my next army choice and I doubt I'll invest in it until its a later battletome.
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3 minutes ago, Maturin said:
We do agree that he can t make a second round of shooting with Anvil's CA, right ?
Correct, it's a ranged ability rather than a ranged weapon attack.
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7 minutes ago, Maturin said:
If I was to choose between sce armors, I'take the one giving -2 to hit for missile attacks. Without Ignax scale, a drake could die to 20 Sotw shooting twice, a Hurricanum's shooting etc. My 2 cents.
That was my other choice. I think it might be a good call.
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[Redacted thoughts about Prime's Scepter]
For those curious, the list that I'm taking to my next tournament (Saturday 25th) needs tweaked. Rules pack is disallowing realm artefacts.
Leaning towards Armour of Destiny, unless I use this opportunity to take a Stormhost (but then I lose Staunch).
Thoughts?
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3 minutes ago, Lucur said:
Just pondering, would Gav with the Prime make a decent combo? I mean, it's darn expensive and locks you into Hammers, but letting the prime sit turn 1, then guarantee the charge with Gav, while Gav gets to charge something nasty nearby so it can't pile into Mr. Prime?
This might fit with a Kitty list instead of a ballista bomb, or a large chunk of Sequitors to maybe get them back with Hammers. Just pondering...
I've played the Prime a lot and there are a bunch of fun melee focused Prime tricks due to the cool nature of his scroll. The most fun are CP heavy though.
Like he takes a Stormhost keyword in a Stormhost list, so he can make use of Anvils, Vindicators CAs. He triggers those CAs himself so doesn't need to be within range of another hero.
If you go Hammers you can add in a LCoD and use the CA to give him another attack.
All this is sort of moot though because he is too succulent, plump and juicy to resist more than a sneeze from the opponent. So I tend to use him as artillery or an assassin guaranteed (nearly) to die after taking out one model or unit worth 340 pts or more (if he doesn't fluff his attacks). In that role I favour the All out attack CA (reroll hits of 1) and then using his Orrery of fates to guarantee one of the wounds (if I didn't use the fates to charge 12").
Make the Prime great again GW! Give him a 4+ ward save. He would still be worse than Gotrek.
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37 minutes ago, Icegoat said:
Teclis and tyrion have been ubiquitous twins through out AOS suddenly the new tome is coming out and tyrion isn't even mentioned by name. Hbo swung the axe and tyrion is gonejyst like marvel killed malekith.
I heard it different, I heard GW are running with the popularity of GoT combined with another IP inspired by Tyrion and Teclis:
My source says GW is making Tyrion the Devito one (ofc) and Teclis will be about double the size a la Arnie. Because Hysh is the realm of light, the sunglasses make perfect sense. Plus Tyrion is blind so double logic right there.
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Correct and on top of what @schwabbele says, it means that if something does 16 wounds to a drake (after saves etc) then it doesn't matter how many healing 6s are also made. Drake's dead yo.
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12 minutes ago, Arcian said:
I don't want to bring my big boy list against a meme list you know?
This is exactly how I feel with the lists I would take to a tournament too. You learn little stomping someone playing "just what they have" or something friendly.
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2 hours ago, Whitefang said:
If there was any apparent physical flaw (from his viewpoint at least), for example, hairlessness and eyelessness, Teclis certainly would not accept them.
It is more likely to be some hidden flaw he did not discover at first
Holy ****** as a balding guy with glasses this hits home. F you Teclis! You're not the boss of me
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2 minutes ago, Arcian said:
Actually everyone is super chill at the shop!
Aww now I feel bad. I was imagining the worst kind of player instead of being a happy mushroom.
In my experience playing with a bunch of armies and lists (reasonably competitively or with "consenting amateur adults" lol) there is no "cheese" ppl get angered by. It's all a learning experience.
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1 hour ago, Arcian said:
The players all seem semi-competitive
The bracket that likes to take netlists but doesn't like to think about it. Sore losers
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You can take great blade with hammers or vice versa afaik but all you gain is confusion when rolling really
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1 hour ago, Maturin said:
Comet is indeed strong, when it goes off and you're not unbound. It does complement well the theme of the list which is : I'm going to slowly MW away, starting with your precious heroes!
Protectors, although I really like them in Skyborne slayers, are very slow, and they don't really fit in the theme. They could be useful as you said, when you're bunkered up turn 1 and are preparing yourselfto withstand a charge.Yeh I mean I want to try it out but it does take away from the purity of long range mw that I like
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I am pondering quite a big change based on my experiences with the comet and 1 caster (you get max 2 casts per game - and to do so you sacrifice 3 rounds of spells) and the idea that shooting is returning to the meta:
SpoilerAllegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Protectors (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96What I gain: more wounds, more bodies, an extra melee punch and a unit that can help against aggressive melee monster lists (4 stonehorns, 2 GKoTGs) that I don't fancy meeting. It also provides cover against shooting where I can't setup within terrain (discount drakes here) in addition to staunch.
What I lose out on is one extra v long range average of 1.5 mws to bunker targets. HOWEVER, the comet is stronk. It's a 10" bubble. It's (with proper setup) never going to be unbound. It messes with opponents casting (albeit, just -1). It's an extra psychological worry.
I am not sure if it's better but its interesting.
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Now you're down to m my kind of wound and model count ^^
You're near to the kind of list I was running before focusing on the chip mw strat. It's in my sig with a rub down on THWG - the dr stardrake love list.
I considered concussors and I think you make good points about their benefits. I'll revisit the list in the future I think with the extra pts from the stardrake reduction
) and let them decide. I'm happy however they rule it.
I might come back to this post if it's unclear.
Starcast - The Thread
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Eventually the TOs will get wise and decide its normal moves only by themselves but for now we are in the right!