broche
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Posts posted by broche
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41 minutes ago, OrcaLullaby said:
In the beginning, I thought the same thing but then I realised that ardboyz has 3 attacks and the savage orruks 2. So even in this case, it would be 18 attacks from the ardboyz vs 20 of the savage orruks. If we consider that the ardboyz has +3 to wound and the savage orruks stikkas +4 then the ardboyz has more choppiness. At the moment unfortunately I don't see too much room for the naked boyz
You're correct, but there's some edge case that you would want Savage orruk and it's model count / renforcement point (it was already mentionned earlier I think). If you take 10 vs 10, there's no real point for savage orruk over ardboys stat wise. But 10 ardboys cost a renforcement point and those can be precious. The other reason is to activate synergy. For exemple, in big waaagh Wurgog is almost autopick, and one could want a wardock as well, so you that mean you get bonesplitter spell. the +1 charge / +1 to hit spell is certainly potent on a block of savage spearman.
I admit personnaly i'll be more tempted to take Gutrippaz over them most of the time. But it's not like you army woudl become horrible either if you include some savage orruk.
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I think at this point further discussion on the subject is pointless. Current concensus seem to be that it work on 3 units. Could change with the FAQ.
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17 hours ago, Vastianos said:
Question here. I would love to add a rogue idol for my list building options, but find the forgeworld model too goofy for my tastes. Many artists offer proxies that look much better or could easily be converted.
My question is, would a proxy of a forgeworld model be tournament legal?
What about using Stonehorn as a base? it's already a "Stony" model. You could replice rider with something totemish.
I never really liked the rogue idol model anyway
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Anything with a 16 mortal wound potential outburst is good.. Exceptionnal spell with do what 5-6 mortal and can be dispelled
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7 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:
But the foot Boss is so slow, and one preferbly want to do the d3 on an enemy instead of your own, so it almost requires a teleport.
What about using the Tome and Touched by Waaagh on the MK a long with Fast Un and Cogs, paired with a Rogue Idol perhaps to lean into the d3+d3 + perhaps Bash 'em lads?
It's not a bad idea either on MK, but you would sacrifice the amulet of destiny. I'm not sure that such a good plan. I wouldn't mind too much taking the d3 mortal in T1 on some ardboys or a character (you could heal him with warchanter just after). Also ardboys have potential to come back with Rally so less of a big deal.
Megaboss isn't that slow with MD (and board are smaller now). T1 you would use MD on him and some ardboys let say, and try to take position in the middle to put pressure on objective (or send kamikaze gruntas for some pining while you advance foot troop). In round 2 there should be combat and then your opponent would face a high number of mortal wound threat. Since Big Waaagh become better the longer the game, it's a good idea to go for a more conservative turn 1. with 160 wound at 4+ you ensure you still have bodies left for late game i think.
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what about taking a Megaboss with foot of gork in Krushaless big waaagh ? You could add a Weirnob with Hand of gork. Between foot of gork, wurgog mask and some shooting from Kruleboyz it seem like a versatile army. Did that really quick:
SpoilerAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Wurrgog Prophet (150)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Orruk Megaboss (140)*
- General
- Command Trait: Touched by the Waaagh!
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Foot of Gork
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)**
- Reinforced x 1
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord
Artefact
Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
Drops: 6
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Hum that is actually a pretty good idea i didn't think that Megaboss with arcane tome could take the trait actually. You get potent wizard that can fight I like it.
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What do you guys think of the 16'' bubble +1 to wound spell? Could be taken with the trait that give +X to cast since Megaboss trait are not that great anymore.
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4 hours ago, Boggler said:
If I am lucky I will have a 3rd CP to spend on something else like Waaaaagh,
i don't think Waaagh is costing a CP
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@cyrus probably not bad but I don't think boar boys have the best synergy in big waaag (they already get a +1/+1 when charging). You would get more value from Gore-Gruntas (especially with 2 warchanter)
Already mentionned it but for me the plus value of big waaagh is open shooting option from Kruleboyz. Otherwise Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz just seem better. Looking at your list the big added value i would see over a pure ironjawz is mostly Wurgog prophet with the mask (give you ranged mortal wound output that Ironjawz doesnt really have access).
(also i think army can't be 1 drop either 2 drop with 2 BR or 5 drop with extra artefact/CP)
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18 minutes ago, Shirtripper said:
You are correct--the Marshcrawla has no Clan keywords, so it can only be taken in Big Waaagh.
I suspect it was not intented and that they will add Kruleboyz keyword in the FAQ
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Quick rule questions: I was rereading some section yesterday, and i looked at the Marsh Sloggoth and found him interesting in bonesplitterz (+1 to hit is not clan tagged). But I already spotted weird army building rules. It state (translation, book in french) that if you want to be bonesplitterz, every Orruk warclan unit in the armies need the Bonesplitterz keyword (same wording for Ironjaw and Kruleboyz).
Since Sloggoth is an Orruk Warclan unit but doesnt have any of those keyword, that mean that according to this wording he cannot be taken except in big waaagh.
Am I missing something?
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1 hour ago, Dahawi said:
Hi everyone,
I couldn't see a thread for the big Waaagh allegiance so thought I'd start one!
Anyone got any advice on where to start with a 1000pt list? Me and my mates are starting a path to glory campaign and I can't settle on a list at this size!
Unfortunatly i'm not sure there is really a point of a 1000pts big waaagh. You want to generate waaagh point, so you have to include a Warchanter. You also want to include a at least 1 bs wizard (ideally wurgog cause mask is insance right now). And i would include a Swampcalla + 6 bolt boys in big waaagh (the point of mixing is to get some shooting otherwise just play ironjawz). My starting point would be something like this:
SpoilerWarchanter 115 wardock 80 Swampcalla 105 5 ardboys 85 5 ardboys 85 5 ardboys 85 6 boltboyz 240 3 gore gruntas 150 945 Problem is that you can't really fit the wurgog. Also the fact that you have less heros/unit mean you'll build waaagh point slower and it is'nt great.
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3 hours ago, Shirtripper said:
So for the Boarboys with Stikkas, the warscroll ability says "Add 1 to hit and wound rolls for attacks made with a Stikka or Tusks and Hooves if this unit made a charge this turn."
pretty sure It should be both
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8 hours ago, Kasper said:
As I wrote, it might be a case of local metas being different, but literally nobody are playing mass Pinks or whatever here in either clubs that I play in. At most some Tzeentch lists have 10 Pinks because they usually want to fill it with support for Archaon or mass casters or whatever, but a single unit is easy enough to deal with and dont "require" Brutes at all. If someone is playing 40 Pinks in Australia I dont really care since it isnt affecting me in EU, yet.
Yes the damage of Brutes is superior to Pigs but the gulf between them dont seem big enough mathhammer wise to give up the increased mobility. People are drooling over the "rend 2 is king" thing but mathhammer wise it doesnt seem THAT much stronger?
So there are obviously a lot of factors that can be at play here. This is just 5 Brutes (3 with Gore-Hackas, 1 Gore-choppa and 1 Boss Klaw) vs 3 Pigs. Both have warchanter buff. I didnt factor in the +1 to hit for the Brutes because the arguement is the objective play (i.e fighting 1 wound models) rather than overall damage potential - You can always give the Pigs +1 from AoA anyways and it will be about the same increase.
Lets assume you are fighting something with a 4+ base save that got +2 to save from Mystic Shield and AoD or whatever (ignoring rend 2 then), this would mean the Pigs are doing 9,33 damage to the unit because the targeted unit will be on a 3+ save meanwhile the Brutes will do 11,83 damage because they ignore the +2 save so they are hitting against the 4+ base save. Its a bit scuffed because the Boss Klaw is only rend 1, so should be hitting on a 3+ target too but I pooled everything into one profile, lets give the Brutes this edge and its probably minor anyways.
So Brutes are ahead here but we are missing the very likely 2 MWs from 3x 3+ impact hits from the Pigs, so a more realistic picture would be that they are doing 2+9,33 = 11,33 damage.
So the mathhammer picture leans in favor of Brutes the better save the target has and obviously leans towards the Pigs as you fight targets with worse saves like Zombies or most other horde units in general.
- They are identical points (pretty much)
- Brutes DO more damage, but mathhammer proves the damage is not as big as people make it out to be
- Pigs have significantly superior mobility
Am I missing something here?
with 4+ and +2 to save gruntas actually do more damage than rend 2 brutes (like 7,4). Rend 2 agains +2 save is kind of the worst scenario for brutes. With 4+ and +1 save they break even. However it's worth mentionning that Gruntas benefit much more from the Warchanter than Brutes (who already have 2 damages attack). On pure damage Gruntas are just better. There's however much more to consider.
1. Brutes are generic battleline so much more versatile
2. the +1 to hit from Brutes agains 4 wound and up. Yes you can have AoA but it's cost command point and it's limited to 1 per combat phase
3. The damage per area: getting 6 pig doing all their attack can be quite tricky due to base size. 10 brutes with 2'', every model will attack almost everytime.
4. Brutes ability: Still unclear to me at this point, but this can certainly be potent. Depending on meta, this can win you games or be useless.
5. In Choppa: Spending Warchanter on 3 units (brutes/ardboys) vs 1 units (Gruntas) doesn't have the same value)
So for me they have their role, and will definitly see play. What i currently like with Ironjawz is that their seem to be multiple interesting list option (as opposed to Bonesplitterz where you're stuck with Pig and Icebone)
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On 9/25/2021 at 10:43 AM, Boar said:
IMO you can use: Rally, Inspiring Presence, Unleash Hell (and book ones: Mighty Destroyers and Ironsunz one). Rest simply don't work with multiple targets at once as game sequencing (moving, charging, fighting one at time) result in situation where you can ever issue such CA to one unit.
Just worth mentioning, i noticed rally need to be issue by the Ardboyz champion to work on 4+ (MK can still use it on 3 but you'll stay at 6+)
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2 hours ago, cyrus said:
What do you think about the new Big waagh ? Is it still worth taking ? is it really possible to mix up ironjawz/bonesplitterz/kruleboyz ?
One warchanter and one wurgog/wardokk seems mandatory together with orruk units that can engage enemy's units as fast as possible to gain waagh points and buffs.
It's still a bit unclear. You get point slower than before, but keep some of the trait of individual faction. I think Kruelboyz would benefit the more from it because you keep their best power (poison) and you could argue that the waaagh ability compensate for lost of clans. Using Gordrack with the crossboy guys for tripple overwatch is also an option.
Ironjawz, it will depend. Their seem to be some disagreement if Maw Krusha can do tripple +1 to hit. If he can then it mostly invalidate the army wide +1 to hit big waaagh get. And I also find Ironjawz to have very good subfaction.
Bonesplitterz also seem like a pass. I think you want to keep the tireless tracker and exploding 6 ability, and play icebone. of course splashing a wurgog is the obvious choice.
The big advantage of big waaaagh is really the flexibility. For exemple, taking a Maw Krusha, War Chanter and Wurgog along some brutes, ardboys, gore gruntas and shooting from kruelboyz can make a truly solid and versatile army.
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2 minutes ago, Boar said:
With initial roll taken into account perhaps? 2/3 chance for on average 2 MW ie. additional 1,33 so 17,33
Man good catch. I didn't realize that the first roll was protected from self-destruct (i've good the french book and surprisingly find it harder to read ability correctly lol) ! So 17.33 is indeed correct.
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2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:
I am completely lost! List building is really different and I don't know what direction to take. Gore Gruntas took a massive hit and I'm not sure they are the shock cavalry I used to like. Between Choppa and Ironsunz, I don't what to pick. I will have to buy new models, my 2000 points list is 1775 points now and it was an MSU to get +2 attacks with the waaagh.
Overall, it seems that playing two Krushas is the way to go. I need to proxy some way another Krusha.
Not sure why you consider Gruntas to have take a massive hit they seem perfectly fine to me (only change is their bravery drop down by 1 but their mortal output is better and they now count as 2 models for objectives)
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@Magnus The Blue quick question i'm not sure i follow the extra iteration for mask. Prochet die after exactly 12 rolls, i get to 16 damages with the 4++ (12 * 4/6 *2)
On 9/23/2021 at 3:06 AM, Kasper said:In general I wouldnt math anything against a 4+ save, these days its most likely a 3+ if not even lower and if the save is worse then it typically wont matter. The question these days is "how do I kill this 3+ (or 2+) monster? can I deal enough damage?".
it's still a good approximation when calculating damage per point for a specific unit. 4+ will be a very common save. Also even if you use 3+ as a baseline most unit will keep the same ranking (you'll swap some rend 2 unit with no rend unit for exemple). But from a general perspective 4+ is a good middle ground. You just have to keep in mind that high rend unit get better as save goes down.
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I think what i find the most sad is seemingly the lack of variety in list building. Right now it's all Wurgog with ward (until it get FAQed) + Icebone and pig.
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2 hours ago, Smash said:
Is Maniak Wierdnob worth taking just to get a mount trait in bonesplitterz?
i didn't realize you could give him a mount trait! I like is signature spell. I think I would chose fast as is mount trait (since is spell is low range it allow you to move before once per game). Or it give him a 24'' move to steal an objective from uncarefull opponent
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Ok got it. I still think it's a good ability. Icebone is probably superior cause is more versatile and is better the higher the save (and our main weakness) but Darkfoot can swing matchup (cities or fyreslayer come in mind). Also significant number of army have access to 6++ so it's flat 16.67% damage increase agains thoses, and big monster with Amulet of destiny are gonna be everywhere as well.
I guess to bonegrinz to worth it you could maybe play 100% arrowboy, bet high for triumph for a big early volley i dunno
i've a game tomorrow (trying the icebone) that will give me a better feel of the army
also unless i've bad sight it seem wurgog can shrug off mask damage with is own ward? that make glowing tatoo on him not bad at all (i suspect this will get FAQ)
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16 minutes ago, bonzai said:
The Drakkfoot's ability only applies to attacks. All of their mortal wound output comes from things outside of the attack phase so they get ward saves against it as normal.
I've the book in french, but drakkfoot ability is not just against MW it's any wound and mortal wound made by attack. Doesn't apply to spell or wurgog ability but that mostly it.
AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted · Edited by broche
I'm not an expert of the LRL warscroll, but you point something that have been the biggest issue in Warhammer since I play: point cost precision.
At the end my guess is that they mostly score on guts feeling with major warscroll information (wound, save, attack an ability) and doesn't really have a rational approach to point assignation. That's why when there is a point update it take a couple hours usually and the players community have already found all the over/undercosted unit, and you see a meta like Heel spam or Skyfire spam for a couple of month while some model doesn't see play at all.