Derptau
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Posts posted by Derptau
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25 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
Couple BoC lists did well.
24 bullgor list (had Shaggoth, Khorne DP, Grashrak, Sphirank) went 4-1 at LVO
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2 Shaggoth, 4 x Dragon Ogre units and it went 5-0 in some tournament (just saw a 20 second clip on twitter, not sure where but it was on the Honest Wargamer twitch.
There were leaks about the BoC WD and it's 12 pages. I'm guessing a few for PtG, Narrative, fluff and maybe a couple paragraphs but the key one was Herdstone change. EatBrayLove has been hammering WarCom on twitter for a start of 12" range on the terrain 1st turn. Who knows,. maybe GW will listen.
Woagh! 5-0 Drogor list? nice
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6 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
What was your list?
2X Shaggoth (1 with horn of the tempest and 1 with father of the storm)
3X6 Drogors with Crushers
1X Ghorgon
1X centigor
One-eyed Grunnock
Previous to this list I was using Grunnock's points for more ghorgon and filling in whatever. Hilariously, the only one to stop me at the last GT from going 5-0 was a teclis list, which the ghorgon spam iteration just doesn't care about.
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Well. Considering my list as of late has been all dragon ogres and I've done very well with them, this is going to be scary for my local meta. Outside of our summoning staying the same, this feels like a really really good update for beasts. We've been meta-breakers, but this may be a bit too much for some armies to deal with.
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4 minutes ago, Vaporlocke said:
Our low leadership makes the heal unreliable at best, though it's still better than the super situational one on the Shaggoth warscroll.
The new rules for the allegiance gives him a heal 1 wound on 2+ per turn, coupled with spells and any other fun you want to introduce. I don't know if I would want to waste cp on our healing when we can finally get reliable damage.
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10 hours ago, tupavko said:
So... I actually had a game after a year or so since I stopped using them and moved to playing Skaven and Throggots. I played a friend withs Slaanesh... My list was:
WARLORD: 385
Shaggoth 185 (Amulet of Destiny; Lightning-fast Monstruosity; Sundering Blades )
Shaman 100 (Titanic Fury)
Shaman 100 (Tendrils of Anthropy)REGIMENT: 720
Shaman 100 (Knowign Eye; Vicious Stranglethorns)
10 ungors 70
10 ungors 70
10 gors 75
Bestigor 135
Bestigor 135
Bestigor 135Alpha beast Pack: 440
chimera 220
chimera 220
Alpha beast Pack: 340
Ghorgon 170
Ghorgon 170He used:
Godseekers
-Herald on Big chariot (amulet of destiny and flaming sword spell)
-Herald on small chariot
-Syll Esske
Chariot
Chariot
Hellstrider w/ ScourgesSlickblade Seeker
Blissbarb Seekerx2
Dread PageantI will not annoy you with the full BR, but this was the first time in a long while that I actually felt I had some thing I could do, rather than count the dead and manage the surviving bodies in order to take objectives...
Considerations:
Slaanesh is really really week, maybe not weeker than BoC but I had the feeling we are in the same tier kind of.
Shaggoths are actully good now. With heroic actions (healing mostly), spells (healing mostly
)and monstuos actions they kind last long and for 185pts they are kind of cheap.
Monsters can do a lot of stuff (units are smaller, they are hard to pin now and can get something with their monstruos actions) and Chimeras for 220 are not bad at all, maybe using 2 is too much commitment but I like agressive armies so I'll keep trying them.
Bestigors are... situational at best. In my game they did as well as 10 ungors, but I feel that against a more infantry oriented army they could be useful, but 135pts for a chaff unit in ana army where you get those for 70/75 is kind of wasted.
Hope these are useful...
Remember our new rules let shaggoth heal as well. I don't think we're in as bad a spot as people say we are to be honest. Slaanesh is definitely worse than we are in the moment.
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15 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
After seeing the translated rules, I have no hope for our book now. It is clear GW has no idea what our issues are.
BL could move 9" this was already fast enough and let me charge turn 1. Exploding hits is not helpful for him. The only reason to take him over a Doombull was the re-rolls vs Heroes, his aura almost never works as you can just kill him before you attack with other units. Exploding hits makes me not want to take him now, especially for 5pts more.....
Jabber - Translation is a mess, need to see it, it could be
We get +1atk but take MWs
Enemy gets +1atks but they take MW's
They get -1 atks but we take MW's
Until I know i'll hold off.
Dragon Ogres didn't need to deal 1 MW and heal 1, thats not what is wrong with them, this doesn't want me to take them anymore than why i would take them now. They still are extremely bad at everything.
Bullgors MW charge is fine, they would have had it from day 1, still not really helping them fix what we want them to do, dealing 1-3 more damage is not the fix.
Gors (not the keyword) can re-roll charges out of Ambush too bad they are one of the worst melee units in the book. If summoning counted as an Ambush that would make Gors a good option to summon over Ungors, but nope. This again doesn't address the issues with Gors, they are still not worth taking. They can I guess have a change to tie up a unit now? But its still a 9" charge even with re-rolls you can't relay on it.Can I ask, where are these rules drops?
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4 minutes ago, The Red King said:
I don't think it's as dire as we're feeling (which is an odd sentiment for me). We can't expect to have sole ownership of all things bestial after all even if we do feel a bit forgotten in the narrative.
But . . . . Goats?
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26 minutes ago, Myrdin said:
Just saw Cragnos .
I cant define by words how much I hate that entire thing. This should have been a Beastmen thing. This dude, even his backstory is what Dragon Ogors are... who in their right mind gave the OK sign for this guy to be in Destruction ? And with a body of a centaur at that!So now we are completely scrapping any centigor lore. No more Ghorros. Coz its a destruction thing now apparently. Hell watch them release "Sons of Cragnos" a Destruction only Centigor sculpts.
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kholek_Suneater
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9 hours ago, Maddpainting said:
Until i see something real and substances I really just don't care.
This is the best way to look at it really.
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On 2/17/2021 at 1:17 PM, Carnith said:
They are comparing them because they are comparable. As @Chaos Shepard has already stated, they are similar unit size, but bulls outdamage them, and enlightened on foot outdamage them for cheaper. Slaangor gain hardly any benefit within BoC.
Like, even from a lore perspective of them being gor, they are still lousy when compared to enlightened, another 3 wound, 5+ save unit. Slaangor not having brayherd just stops them from having more synergies in the army.16 hours ago, Fyrenn said:Has anyone had any experience allying in the mega gargant with BoC? I'm generally not thinking too competitively minded, but I know it takes away a big chunk of points and all allies - but since there is so little synergy already, maybe that isnt' as big of a deal? I think it does really limit a lot of the other options because it eats up so much, but it just feels beastly / cool.
I think some people mentioned it a bunch of pages back, but I don't see anyone ever comment on it!
I was thinking of options on how he might be converted to a true, mountainous shaggoth. maybe find a dragon to put his torso on and just ignore that name he normally has 🙂
Also, as an aside - was there ever a reason why the fimir (RIP) were destruction as opposed to BoC? Didn't they used to (and still do) worship chaos, but sort of fell out of favor from the chaos gods' end?
I think it would be an interesting thing to try a mega gargant. I don't necessarily know how good it would be, but the ability to kick objectives into layered hordes sounds fun.
As for Fimir, I'm just sad. I had built up an entire 2k list to play tournaments with right as the Coviding happened last year. Now they're legends so I've got lots of them sitting around. Going to proxy them as either warherd or trolls I guess . . . -
Yup. Just confused in general about what they were thinking.
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I've been wracking my brain on how I could possibly use them, and the only thing that comes to mind is the same way I'd use enlightened on foot: Surrounded by some gor or bestigor on a spot I want someone to charge me at. Otherwise I just can't find any use for them at 140pts
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No way. 3rd through now you can still hide in close combat in 40k and it's dumb, but it's also much more important in a game with standard troops being able to reach across the board from every army out there.
Shooting into combat is great in AoS as far as I'm concerned. One of the things that doesn't happen because of that is the previously mention ork hopscotch.
More so, it stops protracted combats from happening, meaning it behoves you to use the movement phase to better effect in order to hit units and not be stuck in combat with them.9 hours ago, Apok said:Hi!
Let us hope so, the shooting rules are as dumb as you can get! When I played 40k from 3rd to 5th edition You Could actually hide in close combat, and in 4th edition it was a major ork tactic, smash a whole unit and consolidate into another one. But right now in AoS Shooting has no boundaries! Fire from Close combat, info close combat etc. There are so many good TT games out there right now. When I play vs a KO I feel like there is nothing I can do. To be fair though we have no LoS blocking terrain and no area terrain so maybe that is why I get beat up so much. Maybe skyfires are the answer to my problems? Because I have only 30 Ungor rider I prefer to use them as 3x10 instead of 1x30 man strong unit.
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Who the hell does a 15 enchrantress list? That's just dumb. I kinda love this list. I think we're goin to see a weird swing against shooting armies soon though. Either in the guise of a new book or the new edition.
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With the beastlord, the shaman and even a chaos spawn the Gors can situationally get there. The BoC book is full of situational buffs. The problem is the 1 attack. If they're starting at 2 and getting more for having 20 models I think they can justify their points.
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7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
@Maddpainting The issue with making them hit harder, but not as hard as bestigors will end up with them being directly compared to bestigors instead of ungors like they are currently. In order to not cause problems for one of the three units (ungors, gors, bestigors) each one needs a distinct role and specialty. If you rewrote the bestigor scroll as well you could make it work, by tuning up bestigor damage and increasing their points to match, but the space between ungors and bestigors is actually very small. Base size plays a huge part of this too, since 25mm is under an inch spear ungors can attack in 3 "ranks". With your suggestion a 20 man unit could get 60 attacks, but if ~10 get into combat you would get 30 attacks ~7-12 wounds. while a 30 man unit of ungors could also get 30 attacks ~4-9 wounds, a 10 man unit of bestigors would get ~5-9 wounds, or 7-12 if they charged.
Its just not reasonable to fit 3 units in that space at the moment, and its healthier for the book to find a distinct role for each one so we don't end up in a situation where the decision is mostly arbitrary.I agree with the first part on the disparity that needs to happen with the gors vs bestigors. I don't think the bestigor need to actually get any better though. I think if Gors just had 2 attacks base and wounded on 3s instead of 4s that would be perfect. It would show more strength, it would also make them have a little more edge than the ungor and the capability to get a bit crazy with buffs. Keeping them hitting on 4s with no rending makes them stay cheap and keeps them out of the bestigor roles, but then they have just a bit more teeth. For me the reason I don't field them en masse is the low amounts of attacks and 4+ to wound. Unless I'm getting a cavalcade of spells off they're just not going to do much at all.
Giving them a little bit more dependability (for beasts at least) would go a long way.-
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11 hours ago, Apok said:
Thank You!
I've recently painted up some Enlightened and Skyfires, I currently have 6 on discs, 3 on foot and 3 Skyfires. Do You think that theses peculiar units can do work against these armies? Or is it better just to leave them on the shelf? Oh, and I have the TShaman for a little enforcing, but lack regular Tzaangors...
Best regards,
I honestly still don’t know how to feel about using the tzaangor. I was running 2 skyfire and 1 enlightened on disk for a while, to random returns. They’re a hard unit to use correctly and their effectiveness drops very quickly.
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2 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:
Or more serious ranged armies? Kharadron and certain cities armies seem frightening.
I don't think Kharadron are that terrifying to be honest. Catch them and they fall so hard it's laughable. The easiest way I've found to deal with them is to know that your heroes are going down no matter what, so don't line up your forces to depend on them. Secondly, hit the boats with everything you have at once. Once you've smacked it down in profiles it stops being a real threat. Bonus is if your opponent still has people garrisoned in it, you can surround the boat fairly easily and kill all the little dorfs in it.
As for cities, you need to have them break up to engage you on your own terms, if you make them spread out to get good firing lanes they'll have to. Charge the ones that have overwatch with your throw away units so they waste their shooting and then smack them hard with well, anything. Most cities shooty units are pretty garbage in combat so bestigor will most certainly eat them without trouble.
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52 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:
So with the new lumineth and other armies powerful shooting ability (I don't think they have a very high tier shooting ability personally, but others in my area think they do *shrug*) it got me thinking about this question.
How do we deal with a predominantly shooting based army?
I feel that being in their face is still the general idea, but with shooters we'll actually have to charge sometimes. We're pretty fast, so pulling off charges through gaps should be possible unless they have a perfect wall around their shooters. Our screens delay their movement from shooting (powerful damaging magic could be a problem though) so overall it seems like the strategy is mostly the same as usual. Do my fellow beast lords concur? Are there any nuances our elder kin can share? (and finally) How does a non screen based beast army try to deal with the murder rain?
For Morghur!
Barring most things like KO and Kurnoth, there’s not really much out there that will easily shrug 40 ungor raiders playing the same game. We can easily outshoot many armies by volume alone if we plan for it.
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Yeah. I think it should be at the most 200pts. Though even then I'll take skyfires before a Chimera in a BoC list any day.
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29 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
I agree with you about BoC monsters coming down. I randomly rolled up some Chimera rolls the other night and boy,.. 240 points of swingy. Last time I summoned one it killed 19 ghouls. That was lucky. Cause the time before that I forgot the shooting attack, my rolls were bad and it died in combat. I see no reason to take one. In Gavespawn you could stack attacks but....
Yeah, the Chimera isn't even worth summoning at the moment, though that is the best way to get it. 240pts doesn't matter when it wont make it to combat before being drastically bracketed.
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32 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
Yeah a few players thinks the Cygor should be 7pts over 8, i kinda do agree too. So i amended it. I was just trying to not change it to many steps to fast.
I don’t think they’re really even worth 7. They’re just too swingy and squishy.
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32 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
Yeah a few players thinks the Cygor should be 7pts over 8, i kinda do agree too. So i amended it. I was just trying to not change it to many steps to fast.
I don’t think they’re really even worth 7. They’re just too swingy and squishy.
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I don't think using summoning points is a viable tactic for spawn. Considering the amount hasn't changed you're always going to be spending more points in summoning than just paying for the spawn up front. Even 10 ungor at 60pts is a better expenditure.
)and monstuos actions they kind last long and for 185pts they are kind of cheap.
AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Cygor have actually been pretty ok in my last games. Especially with Teclis becoming less dominant in our meta. Meaning he can still snipe wizards and if he doesn't it's because my opponent has an unreasonable fear of him.