Aelfric
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Posts posted by Aelfric
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3 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:
Wanderers mentioned in the Hammerhal Herald.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/hammerhal-herald/#hammerhal-1
Well, with Beastmen beginning to appear out of the woodwork, those city-dwellers will need decent forest-folk to keep them safe.
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On 9/5/2018 at 6:14 AM, kenshin620 said:
IDK aren't a normal ally for Dispossessed so you won't have to worry about the point cap.
you're right- my mistake. Brain obviously wasn't in gear.
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On 9/3/2018 at 6:09 PM, Myzyrael said:
I had the chance to play two games over the weekend with my dispossessed. The main composition blocks of my army are - due to model availability- a big block of warriors, quarrellers and Thunderers. While they delete a lot in their range I totally struggled to capture any objective. The pickaxe was only semi helpful.
So I’m looking around in our allies section for some mobile units that can grab an objective and stumbled over the Vanguard Palladors. Decent move, 4+ save with 5 wounds, okish dmg Output with interesting ranged harrassing Potential and 3 for 200, so 2x3 or 1x6 as allies looks like a nice package.
Has anyone some experience with fast allied units in the dispossessed or other ideas how to capture objectives that are outside our footslogging range?
How about IDK - 6 defensive eels(as one unit or 2x 3) and a soulscryer 380 points. Or swap the eels for Thralls, though they are less durable.
If you don't need to appear on a board edge, then 6 offensive eels are 320 points.
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7 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
Rumor: AoS 3 is due summer 2021 (more or less 2 years). It is said that they don't know yet what to oppose to Cavern Stormcast.
Sooner or later it's going to be themselves.
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1 hour ago, adreal said:
@Aelfric, i have gome more shooting heavy because 1 it suits my style of play and 2 our rules favour shooting over combat.
2 units of 5 wild riders would be good, but sisters do give an additional unbind and have a great spell (even though we lack an anvil to cast it upon)
Completely understand building to your preferred style and agree that Wanderers are better at missile than melee. If you're going missile heavy, then SotW are the way to go now they are cheaper. Hope it goes well for the next battle - would be interested to hear how you get on.
If you did replace SotT with Wild Riders, would that be to add more SotW and do away with GG altogether? You would have 360 pts, which is 20 Sisters.
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9 hours ago, Origin said:
@adreal do you find that you just get boxed out of your first turn alpha by a good enemy deployment?
I'm struggling with the battalion now more than ever, now we're limited to one unit per turn the one drop battalion is more appealing but it is even riskier without the option to redeploy should a decent opponent limit your first turn options.
Well, you don't have to drop the battalion in one go. If you can tell how many drops your opponent has, you only have to keep back enough to win first turn choice. So you can drop some units on objectives or strategic places and keep the rest back to drop later. Depending on the situation, it might even be better to give them first turn - although probably not if they can summon immediately.
I presume you have gone for a heavy shooting list to combat Seraphon in particular. Have you considered 10 WWR and the Nomad Prince with the Forget-me-knot. The Forget-me-knot would negate the Slann's ability to pass wounds to other units. You would have to clear a path with your missile troops first. You also have 2 command points for re-rolling charges.
Sorry, meant this second bit for @adreal
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2 hours ago, adreal said:
Before the tournament I would have swapped the waystrider in my list for a third waywatcher. But now, for 80 points I can throw him on a flank and use him to tie stuff up.
Over the weekend he struggled to damage a white king, killed (but held up) 4 black knights and took out a stormfiend, and survived 2d3 mortal wounds holding up the last stormfiend from killing a unit of sisters.
I like the command trait I took (eagle eyes) but there were times stalker could have helped, but honestly, I was very happy with how my list went. I doubled down on shooting, 4 games out of 5 I went for a wander and apart from some silly mistakes I held my own.
Honestly, I would just like a spell lore and some more relics to choose from
I am assuming you used the same list as for your practice game. if so, what did you use the 60pts left over for - was it an extra command point or some endless spells? Also what artefacts did you go for in the end?
I would love a Wanderers spell lore too - maybe one day.
With the 86 ( or thereabouts) realm relics, I think we have loads to choose from - but I still take Forget-me-knot and Viridescent Shawl. The good realm relics all seem geared for big wound melee beatsticks and we don't have any. It would be nice to have a few missile weapon relics in the mix, but it seems that GW are shying away from anything that enhances missile fire at the moment. At least they gave us missile appropriate traits - I'm favouring Masterful Hunter at the moment.
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6 hours ago, Stalth said:
've been toying around with the following list but I'm not entirely sure about including the Phoenix Guard or the Namarti Thralls, an replacement option is the frostheart phoenix another is 2x5 reavers. I'm open for other ideas too, what do you suggest?
Are you using allies because those are the only models available or is it a thematic choice?
I've used 10 Thralls plus a Soulscryer as part of a Mixed Order army as a reinforcement squad to come in mid-game and that works well. You would have to drop the Phoenix Guard to do it, though. With the 40 pts saved and the 20 from the Shackles, you could make both the Wayfinder and Waystrider into Waywatchers which are much better, as @adreal said.
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22 hours ago, adreal said:
Yes, he gets 9 points from the slaan and then d3 from the banner, which he rolled 3 for each turn (though his teleports were 1s and 2s so balance)
Would it not be better then to target the Slann first. Squeeze a third Waywatcher in and gang up. With their range and small footprint you should be able to drop them all within range straight away.
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5 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:
The command point idea is a pretty good one, though I'm still hyped from endless spells and want to experiment a little more with them. The other problem i come across with the re-roll charges is having a hero close enough to the teleported unit in order to use the command point for the re-rolls. This is a one drop list and all of the units are included in the battalion. I have not had much luck getting the points worth out of the sisters of the thorn and i think that replacing them with wild riders and maybe throwing in another unit or two of eternal guard or rangers could be a viable plan. As far as traits go, I use Stalker of the Hidden Paths on Nomad, Viridescent Shawl on Spellweaver, Starcaster Longbow on Waywatcher.
I asked about the Battalion because you have 5 infantry units listed and the Battalion requires 4, no more no less, from the list of options - unless I'm reading it wrong. It's slightly frustrating as I would prefer 2 units of 10 EG, but I'm glad we have a Battalion at all.
The charge re-rolls were on the first turn when I could drop the units and heroes together, otherwise I agree it's too difficult to arrange in later turns from a teleporting point of view.
I have moved away from using Stalker with the change to Realm Wanderers and am trying out Masterful Hunter and using the teleport to move Waywatchers around without them losing their +1 to hit.
If you are going to have Endless spells, then the SotT may still be useful as you can cast 2 in the same turn.
I still like the Forget-me-knot. We lack any large beastie to go toe-to-toe with the larger Heroes, of which there seem to be more and more, so this is one way of being able to stand up to them. I put it on the Nomad Prince and keep him with the WWR. That's the reason I want the command points for the first turn charges. I'll happily trade them for most of the Big heroes in turn one - 220 points isn't so bad.
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23 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:
Here is the list I've been experimenting with for 2.0 Any ideas on how to squeeze some use out of those missing 30 points? Maybe another good endless spell or roster change? Recommendations would be appreciated!
I have a similar list to yours. I've played it once and won, though against a Nurgle army that wasn't particularly optimised. The differences being I have one unit of 20 GG and one of 20 SotW, plus a 20 strong unit of EG instead of 10. the remaining 40pts went on a Pendulum ( it never hurt anything but did act as a bit of a road detour sign). Although I didn't one-drop, it's nice to know I have the option ( say against KO for example ).
Alternatively, you could take the flying swords for some offensive spell damage, or drop the shackles and have an extra command point. I used both command points in the first turn re-rolling Charges ( successfully thank goodness ), but it would have been nice to have a third up my sleeve to counter battleshock in my opponent's turn.
Just out of curiosity, which unit isn't in the battalion? I'm assuming SotW as they're listed last. Also, what trait and items are you using?
If I wasn't painting Deepkin at the moment, I'd probably be painting another 20 SotW, though how I'd squeeze them in to the battalion I'm not too sure. I can - it's what to take out besides the GG and Pendulum without losing a Waywatcher.
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27 minutes ago, sean2436 said:
Sorry for double post. I meant to ask for suggestions for next 500/1000 point. Tested SotW recently and really like what they can do as well as a 1x30 GG unit in combo with Realm Wanderers was pretty nasty. Also seems like I should have gotten something other than the Wayfinder, he does seem lackluster in most games where I don't roll a decent 3D6.
Waywatchers are much better and still worth their points despite the 20 pt increase. I take 3 in the battalion and it's fairly easy to kitbash a couple for variety. With the change only allowing one unit to use realm wanderers each turn, they are perfect for this as they don't lose their +1 to hit in the shooting phase and can fit in most places being a single model and are hard for your opponent to screen them out when they first arrive on the board. Make one your General (SotW become battleline) with Masterful Hunter and you'll be hitting on 2s, even heroes with the -1 "look out sir", and generating extra hits on a 4+ each time - well on a 5+ against LOS which is standard anyway.
Let's just say I like them.
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8 hours ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:
I'm starting to build up a Deepkin army, so a Waywatcher will be welcome.
Me too and my 20 Eternal Guard are welcome to join in as objective holders - same price as 10 Namarti Thralls.
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17 hours ago, awcamawn said:
True, Grand Alliance: Order does mention that Alarielle and the Sylvaneth see the Wanderers as "divorced from nature," which does sound like a pretty big diss among nature loving types. However, the Sylvaneth section of that same book details how the Sylvaneth in general "remain distrustful of any not of their kind" and that the Wanderers "are seen as estranged cousins" (page 85 of GA: Order). If you thought the Sylvaneth 'rejection' of the Wanderers was harsh, you should hear what they think of humans and dwarves! There being a certain level of distrust (IE "rift") between the aelves of the wood and the forest spirits is something that goes way way back to the world-that-was from what I understand.
The new fluff from the Core Book confirms that whatever the nature of the "rift" between Alarielle and the Wanderers, they were nevertheless close allies at the beginning of the War of Life ('Swathe Nations At War' p94), and that it was only after "abandoning Ghyran to the infestations of Nurgle and hence leaving the people of the Everqueen to their plight" that they "[had] broken a long-standing alliance that will take lifetimes to rebuild" ('The Wanderers' p143).
Alarielle lived and fought alongside the Wanderers until many of those aelves abandoned her, whereas Teclis tried to destroy the Idoneth outright after creating them and they fled. I would argue that their relationships with their respective gods are quite different.
This is not to say that similarities don't exist, or that Wanderers and Idoneth don't have many fluff-based reasons to ally together. Moreover, unlikely allies make for a fantastic narrative hook and gives you a jumping off point for the story of your army. For example, if you decide to take Drycha as an ally (in any army, because she hates EVERYONE), you suddenly have to explain from a narrative perspective why she would fight alongside non-sylvaneth 'scum.' And thus a story almost immediately writes itself in the explaining thereof (maybe Drycha is using the non-sylvaneth as pawns in her genocidal game, maybe she was ordered to fight alongside them by Alarielle herself but is ready to turn on them at any moment, etc).
Again, not to say I think Idoneth make particularly unlikely allies for Wanderers (I don't), but you do have some explaining to do when you ally in soul thieves into your army (but the explanation itself is an opportunity for good storytelling). I imagine it goes something like this in it's most basic form - 'Hey Idoneth, don't steal our children, come fight with us and we'll totally get you some souls broh... but seriously, stay away from our children...' ?
The problem I have with Allariele is that, as the Everqueen, she merged with Isha, Aelven Goddess of Nature, during the End Times which ensured she would survive as the Incarnate of Life in the new reality. But she rejected her Aelven heritage and her people without explanation. The old Wood Elves worshipped Isha in the Old World and she cared for them, but in her new form she has abandoned the descendants of her followers.
(Allariele doesn't even have the Aelf keyword)
One of the silver linings to having little official lore is that we are less constrained when creating our own. The lore I created for my Wanderers gives great importance to the restoring and strengthening of the Ley-lines (to tie in with what little lore we have). Unfortunately, this can only be achieved on land and those Ley-lines under the sea were always annoyingly out of reach. However, since the arrival of the Deepkin out of obscurity, the possibility of caring for these Ley-lines can now be realised. By working with the Idoneth, perhaps they can help us in our appointed task and perhaps, with our knowledge of the flora and fauna of the land which they lack, we may be able to help them find a better solution to their Soul-sickness. To that end my tribe are at the beginning of developing a relationship with a small Idoneth enclave for our mutual Aelven benefit and to the benefit of the Realms as a whole.
Of course the numbers of wandering tribes are many and not all will agree with this view.
I agree with you completely that creating a backstory and lore is so important and really helps bring your forces to life ( no pun intended ).
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30 minutes ago, awcamawn said:
Here's a rule question that came up in my first AoS 2.0 game - the Waystone Pathfinders Defensive Volley ability lets you choose a unit within 12" of the Nomad Prince and all units in the battalion can make a shooting attack against that unit as if it were the shooting phase. Do y'all think this overrides the core rules? If one of your units is within 3 inches of an enemy unit can it shoot 'out of combat' to target a different unit that has been selected for a Defensive Volley?
Warscrolls take precedence over core rules, as stated on page 238 of the core book. As far as I'm aware battalions are warscrolls, so I would say that in this instance you can shoot out of combat against a unit more than 3" away.
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3 minutes ago, awcamawn said:
Source? My impression is that many Wanderers decided to abandon her and Ghyran to it's fate, not the other way around. I feel that the Wanderers reconciling with Alarielle is far more likely than the Idoneth reconciling with Teclis, in fact we know that many Wanderers live within Alarielle's Living City with her blessing.
The (short) description of the Wanderers in the Grand Alliance:Order book, talks of a rift between the Sylvaneth and Wanderers and that Allariele regards the Wanderers as divorced from Nature. This is not because of what was regarded by Her as the betrayal when the Wanderers deserted Ghyran, but a separate issue. That feels to me like a rejection.
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4 minutes ago, Aezeal said:
Am I the only one who doesn't feel like allying with the deepkin at all due to not matching that well on both aesthetic and lore level?
To me, Wanderers and Idoneth have much in common, one wanders the land, the other the sea - both are deeply connected to the natural world. Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle and The Idoneth were rejected by Teclis, both for reasons beyond their ability to control. Both live on the margins of ordered society, not really understood by others within Order - even other Aelven societies. There are more similarities between these two factions than you might think.
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2 minutes ago, Yoshiya said:
Just a heads up, the idoneth points in the ghb are wrong and you should instead use the ones in the battletome (in the idoneth faq). That makes the cheapest 6 eel/soulscryer ally block 380pts if you use the defensive eels and you can't fit 6 morsarr eels and a scryer in as that's 420pts.
The thralls group would be the same cost as the defensive eels group.
(For reference;
Soulscryer - 100pts
Ishalean guard - 140pts per 3
Morsarr guard - 160pts per 3
Thralls - 140pts per 10)
Thanks for that, good to know. Still a good use of 380 points, though. Just leaves 120 pts to play with - probably add 10 EG and swap the Waystrider for a third Waywatcher. 3 Waywatchers are far more productive than 30 GG for the same price and more survivable, esp as they can all be -2 to enemy missiles.
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Now we can take Idoneth as allies, a Soulscryer plus either 20 Thralls or 6 Eels would make a good ally contingent - 360 pts either way. If I add this to the 1500 battalion list, that would leave 140 points to bulk up the EG to 30 or WWR to 20 ( or several other variables ). This would be a three drop army and none of it starts on the table - unless you're playing "Total Commitment". The Idoneth can come down at the end of any of your movement phases for a later game 6" charge re-rollable. (It's a pity we can't ally in Khinerai)
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19 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:
At 1500 pts we always used the limits for 2000, a part from allies which are easy to calculate (1000->200, 1500->300, 2000->400), which is 6 leaders, 3+ BL, 300 allies, 4 behemoth. Are you guys used to follow other limits?
The last tournament at the shop was a while ago and I don't have the time to play that often. They use Vanguard rules for 1500 point tournaments, but I had forgotten and for some reason had it in my head that over 1000 points you use the the battlehost limits. I will try the list out at some point, and look forward to hearing how you get on with using the battalion at 1500 pts. I was sure somebody was going to bring Morathi and was looking forward to the opportunity to put the Forget-me-knot on her and kill her in one turn.
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22 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:
Yeah, Masterful sniper can be good too especially if you leave the opponent the first turn so he gets closer to you, definitely generating attacks on 4+ is not bad at all even for a single hero. Plus you can try and put him on a flank within 6" of an edge and move up using realm wanderers as it counts as not moved for the ability to get+1 to hit. You will move 6" anyway.
In my experience none of our units resist a charge and our opponent swinging first at us especially with big center pieces or hitty units so you will have to choose your fights very well even if in many situations it is just not possible. Looking forward to hearing from you, let us know how it went. I might actually try this myself.
Good luck m8.
Unfortunately, it's back to the drawing board. Found out today that we have to use Vanguard rules which has a max of 4 leaders. Will probably trot out my Dragonhost Battalion under mixed Order instead, with added Wanderers. Will have to try it another time.
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3 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:
Do you not need one more BL?? Why not moving the general to one of the Wywatchers to have the SotW as BL? Plus you will get the 10" range trait and can keep it safer.
I see the excitement of playing the Batallion at 1500 pts but I cannot really see the dmg output in this list, or is it just me? What is your plan?
With the new changes to the trait we will need to have more and more units to "take the hit" from the opponent and 10 man units I think are a little bit too fragile. I like the forget me knot choice I will definitely a go myself at some point.
Good call, Waywatcher is now General - with Masterful Hunter - +1 to hit, I think, to help snipe heroes. The EG's role is to hold objectives. The SotW and WWR are hopefully going to gang-up on the greatest threat supported by a Waywatcher and Nomad Prince and eliminate it or them turn one. The cav can be held back for later or thrown in at the beginning once I know what I'm facing and in which scenario. The Spellweaver can stay out of melee, probably with an EG unit, is -2 to missile fire and can now unbind from 30" away. Also I can take first or second turn. 1st turn so they can't put up defences or 2nd turn to gamble for the double turn. I'm pretty sure I'll be the only one-drop list.
Unfortunately, we don't have great damage output to begin with, so If I can take out one flank at the beginning, I'll have less coming back at me and hopefully can hold onto objectives long enough to score points. We can't survive a stand-up fight, so I'm going for the ambush.
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There's a small 1500 point tournament next week at my local shop and I've been dithering between Wanderers and mixed order. However, I have put together a Wanderers list and would welcome some feedback.
Nomad Prince - General - Myst Walker - Forget-me-Knot
Spellweaver - Viridescent Shawl
Waywatcher
Waywatcher
Waystrider
10 Eternal Guard
10 Eternal Guard
10 Wildwood Rangers
10 Sisters of the Watch
5 Sisters of the Thorn
5 Wild Riders
Waystone Pathfinders Battalion
This comes to exactly 1500 points. The aim is really to hope for a good alpha strike to deplete the enemy enough to weather the rest of the battle - the "Who Dares Wins" approach. 2 command points in the first turn to re-roll charges and the Forget-me-knot to take out big heroes ( like Morathi ). What do you think?
(Found a use for the Waystrider at last
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I think that the battalion is the way to go now it's cheaper and you get a command point and extra item. The Realm Wanderer ability has been fun, but it is of very little tactical use now, so will probably be dropping the "Stalker" trait and try out either Masterful hunter on a Waywatcher or Singer of Spells on a Spellweaver. The points drops are nice, although most have been cancelled out by the increases. 3 Waywatchers and a Spellweaver are now an extra 80 points. Waystrider is 80 points and still not worth taking over a Nomad Prince.
I've got 10 SotW on the go at the mo to add to the 10 I already have painted, but when they're done I'm going to concentrate on painting Idoneth for a while.
Don't mean to sound so despondent - I am going to keep playing them.
AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion
in Order
Posted
If only we had a Forget-me-knot that lasted longer than one combat phase.