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phizzco

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    AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    I just seems strange that you would be able to activate an ability that requires a unit not be dead, after it should already be removed. I understand that no respite and relentless fury trigger when something dies but rather than be treated as a standard attack, it would view it as a special ability. Obviously this isn't as written, but seems like an oversight by the writers....

    I'll definitely take advantage of this when I can regardless.

    AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    On 1/2/2020 at 12:05 PM, Troll.exe said:


    Q: The Relentless Fury, Murderous Paragon and No Respite abilities allow a model that has been slain to pile in and attack before it is removed from play. What happens if more than one of these abilities apply at the same time?
    A: The model would be allowed to pile in and attack once for each ability that applied to it before being removed from play.

     

    From here we we can see that once relentless fury has been resolved that the model is still on the field. Since it’s an attack in the combat phase and the first attack then as long there’s something within 3” then you have to immediately apply leave none alive. 

     

    Is this accurate? Is leave none alive an ability to allows a unit to attack before being removed? I play khorne myself and love this if its, in fact true, but this seems wrong.

    AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Sneeto said:

    I’m doing very well with my Khorne army so far, happy with results. I find success not on killing opponents but winning on objectives/being a good general/knowing the game well.

    What did you run most recently? Against what army did you play? What was their composition? What was the battleplan?

    Thanks!

    AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Gibs said:

    BoK are not the only ones having trouble with our new Slaanesh overlords haha....

    Its early days and I am sure the meta will evolve. However, if there was a culprit it feels like depravity is slightly over tuned.

    Depravity

    "Each time a friendly SLAANESH HERO inflicts a wound or mortal wound by an attack or spell (and is not negated) on an enemy model, but that model is not slain by that wound you receive 1 depravity point. Also, every time a wound or mortal wound is inflicted on a friendly SLAANESH HERO but that model are not slain by that wound (and is not negated) you receive 1 depravity point. Depending on which host you belong to, you can generate more through other means."

    If you are playing Slannesh why would you not run as many multi-wound heroes as possible in a competitive list? They not only gain depravity from dealing damage they also get it for basically every wound they lose minus the last one as wound are allocated one at a time.

    Example:

    Keeper of Secrets (14 wounds), to summon a Keeper of Secrets (30 depravity)

    Assumption: you don't have access to abilities that can instantly remove the model without them taking wounds (obviously this is the best case scenario nuff said)

    Best case scenario

    Snipe the Keeper from range inflicting 14 wounds before it can get into combat. Depravity = 13 = 43%  value

    Note: this also assume the Slaanesh player does not get a chance to heal any wounds

    Tie the Keeper up with single wound models. Depravity = wounds lost = 0-13 = 0-43% depravity value (easier said than done as they output a huge number of wounds per turn)

    Conservative scenario

    Keeper is going to get into combat against a multiple wound unit and attack first......its very hard to stop this happening with your average army. Even when wounded the Keeper is still going to output some damage before eventually going down:

    Deals 5 wounds (4 depravity) + wounds taken (13 depravity) = 17 = 57% value

    In this scenario you are over halfway to summoning a second Keeper and you have only lost one unit and probably inflicted some damage. Then what about the other 3-5 Slaanesh heroes in the board?

    Not uncommon scenario 

    Keeper charges into a monster, strikes first and murders then before any return attacks (with all the rules and buffs there are not many monsters that want to be fighting a Keeper in combat)

    13 wounds (12 depravity) = 40% value

    Opponent charges in on there turn and between shooting magix and combat the Keeper does not quite go down

    10 wounds taken ( 10 depravity) = 33% value

    In your turn you heal some wounds (up to 7), strike first and only deal 5 damage due to bracketing

    6 wounds (3 depravity, as they were only 2 wound models) = 10% value

    Opponent strikes back and kills the Keeper (6 depravity) = 20% value

    Total value from depravity 12+10+3+6 = 31  = 103% value

    Then factor in any passive depravity generation on top of this........

    Obviously, every scenario is different but I am coming to grips with is that its not hard for a Slaanesh player to run as many multi-wound hero models as possible and even under less the ideal scenarios still generate enough depravity to summon multiple hero units that then also can generate depravity. I have now had games where 30 depravity points have been generated by the start of my opponents second turn which means a third Keeper is now on the table before I can respond.............if the game had continued he probably could have summoned at least 1-2 more.

    The counter argument is, why allow the Slaanesh player to generate so much depravity? Well the simple truth is that outside of specific armies and tailoring lists its very very hard to accomplish - you not only have to control the battle against a really agile and fast army you have to finish fights quickly (basically get everything your way and make zero mistakes). Its also not practical to take hordes of single wound models, just in case you are playing against Slannesh..... and even then Slaanesh heroes are still generating great value for losing wounds while outputting extreme levels of damage. Yes, the Slaanesh army might have a low wound count...but that is a false argument as the rate at which they generate depravity actually inflates the wounds available over the course of a battle by an absurd amount.....our group is basically at the point where "if" the Slaanesh player gets a charge with a Keeper on a multi wound unit its game over. By the time you finish the rounds of combat either you just lost the whole unit or so much depravity has been generated that the Keeper basically pays for itself.......its game warping and not everything can or wants to play a full gun-line or has 150+ single wound models. 

    SO back to the above, even though Blood Warriors and Wraithmongers deal damage after death, its not the first hero you have to worry about its the next 2 keepers that get summoned from depravity that break your back. Both those units are multi-wound so they are generating depravity on death also. 

     

     

    I'd imagine this stuff will be re-tuned. If not i'll.... just not play with people that play slaanesh lul. I dont have any friends right now that play them so I don't have much exposure.

    AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Grimrock said:

    I think mortals are definitely a core part of the army because we lack speed and make up for it with overall resilience and synergy, which the mortals have in abundance. I'd say the first thing you need are some bodies to help protect the fragile daemons until they're ready to fight, so some bloodwarriors or a dark feast would be a good idea. If you don't have them already grabbing a bloodsecrator and slaughterpriests are essentially mandatory for the army. After that it's up to you, a slaughterborn battalion is rock solid and a great front line, gore pilgrims has all the required parts in a neat package, bloodforged works amazingly as a second line. 

    I feel like blood crushers are the "resilient daemon' you need to get out ahead and tarpit enemies for your fragile BLs to get in... either that or a slew of doggos.

     

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