PlasticCraic

Yeah I think we're talking more in the context of a Bloodtoofs here. The Gorefist is also of great interest - but the Bloodtoofs is a one-drop which is pretty big. On average you'll get 1x Hero Phase move (which Cogs would also boost, since it's not phase-specific?), plus the Batallion move on your Battleline. Thinking about the Arboyz for example - and assuming you don't get a 4+ / 6+ IJ move on them (because you give it to your Krusha / Pigstar). On average you have a 3.5" Batallion move + 6" move (with Cogs) is 9.5" forward. They are +6" on the charge but the harder part is getting them into 12" to be able to attempt it. The 9.5" gets you just past the centre of the board in most missions. So if your opponent sets up just a few inches back, you are either relying on getting a big Batallion move, or using your (likely) only Hero Phase move on them. Brutes you can basically forget about now that the Realmgate has been nerfed? Unless you use your 1 Hero Phase move on them, which could be worthy of consideration? You could of course run MSU and then give yourself a few chances of getting a good Batallion move on 1 of the units. Basically in my head I keep coming back to multiples of the GGs, but there are a few moving parts here so I am keen to pick the brain of @Malakree because he's seen this in action. I love the idea of being able to burst through a small gap at +6" to the charge with the Drummer, just wondering how you engineer that in practice without giving up your IJ move - or maybe you do use it on them?

I like that @Malakree, doing damage outside of the combat phase can be huge, and this is a perfect example. Do you reckon you could do a diagramm (or if not maybe just talk through) how you are forcing the holes where you want them? In my simple mind, the opponent is always removing his Destructive Bulk casualties so as to leave an obstacle in front of your not-Maw Krusha. How many units are you actually getting into charge range Turn 1?

Love it! And that's a really good point on the Prophet, I hadn't thought of that. Question on the Brutes, what's your delivery mechanism? Are you giving them the 4+ (6+) Hero Phase move if you get it?

I wouldn't disagree mate, it's getting a bit disjointed. It's almost like they need a hard reset, maybe even move to a new edition...oh wait.

Also this one is from the GH 2018 Errata, seems to be saying the FAQ you quoted is only for armies with Allegiance stuff? So Leadbelchers would be ok based on that? Page 62 – Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction Add the following section: ‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities. Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army, you must use them.

@Davros I disagree, it's potentially a big change. You can now lock people in place by putting 2+ models in base to base - so it's almost back to how it was in 1.0, where you could lock people in position. Difference being you now need 2 models instead of 1 to do so. Before this FAQ (but after 2.0 dropped) a lot of people were playing that you couldn't be locked in place at all, because you could end the same distance (0.0") away from any of the models you were in contact with - as they were all joint closest.

@Malakree glad to hear it works so well! About time we had something a bit bent! Can I ask what your opponents were? Was there any "unkillable" stuff you went up against (2+ RR1s), and if so how did that go? I guess because you went first, most stuff wouldn't have the buffs off, which helps a lot! Would you still bounce off a Staunch SC army?

We've just recorded a YouTube video on this subject, and I was coming at it from a Destruction / BCR viewpoint throughout. You might find it interesting: https://youtu.be/lPIoc1rJneU There's quite a few that are awesome on Mr Frosty!

I like it, however there is no Battleline ? Something like this maybe? You could make them pretty mobile with the Destruction move + Cogs + Run & Charge. Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 133

Yeah they can be a good can opener, and they can kill the things Brutes can't. But they are probably a bit overcosted unfortunately - my great hope for Bonesplitterz was that they would come down in points this year. One way you could maybe make them work for you is to take a unit of 4 plus a Warboss (340 points of Allies) - benefitting from the Waagh! and Banner along with the rest of your army, and each extra attack on them is very valuable. In that context the main problem I would have with them is how easy they are to shoot off (no save vs Judicators for example). They are just a little too expensive to be viable in my opinion, since you kind of need to spam them. In a mixed Destro army I think there could be a useful Teef Rukk build, as something very modular that gets you the extra artefact and CP. Could benefit from the Destro Hero Phase Charge (since they could then pile in with their Batallion bonus), and would be a great recipient of the Gordrakk Waaagh.

For sure, he is not blaming anyone but himself. He's been the definition of grace about the whole thing from what I can see. Anyway...let's see some Beasthammer lists? Do you think the build could cope with the 2+ RR1s stuff (like a Stradrake for example)? How would you deal with Rend -1 Damage 1 spam (e.g. DOK)?

It was because he used the Azyr app to build his list, which is not fit for purpose. FW points were not in there so he had to hand write the Hag on the bottom of his list, and put the old points down by mistake. I do not know the guy personally but I do believe it would be an easy mistake to make, since nobody podiumed anywhere in the world with the Hag under the old points (that I am aware of?), and all they did was make her warscroll worse, so it was a points hike out of the blue really and relatively easy to miss. Also it would have been really, really easy to tweak his list to come in under points (he had Endless Spells he could juggle for example), so I don't think he would risk a disqualification in those circumstances to come in 10 points over. If Azyr worked properly it would not have happened.

Hi @Korvak welcome to the tribe! I actually think 1000 point is a better level for BCR than 2000 points for a few reasons. Your opponent can't usually fit in multiple big blocks of models, so you can often devastate their single key unit with your Stonehorn (if you had one). Also your opponents don't often have room for enough buffing heroes to exploit their superior tech, or for Batallions to win the Artefacts arms race. Basically we drag them down to our level and let the warscrolls do the talking. 1) You are correct on Everwinter's Master, that is the go-to because it helps to slightly mitigate our terrible Allegiance Abilities. 2) I don't understand this question, 2 packs of 6? 12 Mournfang is 960 points without a Leader and therefore is not legal at 1000 points? 3) Interesting one. I'd make him Ethereal personally. if you can get a wizard in there especially. Very few armies will have enough MW firepower to one shot you with Mortals alone, and you do have healing, so I'd say most games it's the death by a thousand cuts that would be the main risk you'd need to mitigate?

Hi @PensivePanther, thanks for the comments! We did play last night and it was great fun. It was 3-way Triumph and Treachery, up against Stormcast and Khorne. Nobody took any Batallions (hard to fit into 1000 points these days) and the Stormcast player took the chamber that gives Hero Phase activations for a CP. Khorne was a Daemons list with a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and a block of 30 Bloodletters. I had a couple of very enjoyable moments in the game. First up was when my Tyrant (Great Gutgouger, Ghyrstrike) took down the Bloodthirster in a single swing. The Stormcast player was checking what the Thirster would look like on his damage profiles as the Khorne player lifted him off the table… “I wasn’t expecting that to happen!” I was ? The other cool one was the Pendulum, quite late in the game I sent it slashing through the Stormcast ranks and through 6 different units. 19 Mortal Wounds the first time I ever cast it! FWIW it won me the game too, although it was only a casual game. I think you are right about not enough Ogors on the table. The Gargant could probably drop out of the list for 1000 points I think, which frees up a few points. In T&T specifically the Grots aren’t great (feeds your enemies too many kill points) but I do like hitting over the top of them in normal games. Glad to hear you are loving the Firebelly! He doesn’t see a lot of table time generally, so I’m glad he’s working for you.

Doom and Darkness just recorded a Gutbusters video that some people might be interested in, and I was a guest on the show - we did try to cover all aspects of the faction (keeping it newcomer-friendly), so some of it might be quite basic for members of this forum, but if you are like me you will always be glad to see the Fat Lads getting some coverage! We wrapped up with a couple of lists and here is the link to the lists in full: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H45ugncWxPEOjya7GXB6eVN_5-JQxbZvRj4AtCn1Hrk/edit

The main stipulation is that I want at least 1 Endless Spell in there, because I'm really enjoying using them at the moment! This was my first draft, it is wide open to suggestions though:

Got a 1000 point game tonight (Triumph and Treachery), what are people's 1000 point lists?

That's awesome!

We only ever had to be within 1". But the old rule was that to pile in, you had to end up closer to the nearest enemy model. Which is impossible if you were already 0" away (can't be closer than in contact) - so you could be "locked" in base to base, unable to pile in. Which could leave the guys at the back, out of 1" range, blocked out and unable to get closer. Whereas today, you only have to end up equally as close, or closer. Meaning you can start off in base to base contact, but still slide around (or even move out and back in) as long as you end up still in base to base. It just gives you a little bit more freedom to move in combat, and makes it a little bit less common that your models at the back will be locked out of 1" range.

True, unless the Fungoid is your General ?

Hi Panther, 1) Ironfists took a knock with 2.0, no doubt. You used to be able to stack positive modifiers (cover save and Mystic Shield) to more than offset most rend. Now Mystic Shield doesn't carry the same benefit it is much less viable. It might be worth considering on blocks of 3 which are much easier to get into cover. And remember that the Burning Skull (Endless Spell) can replicate the effects of the dual wielding if you like living (slightly) dangerously! But generally yes I think you will see a shift towards Dual Wielding, especially on big blocks. 2) Unfortunately not, because it is "any Bellowers". So no stacking, which is annoying when it comes to Mind Razor for example. 3) RAW you could absolutely fill out your unit with them. However in friendly games, most people would see that as a bit gamey. And in most tournament packs it will be banned. So you tend to find that in practice it has no place in the game, whatever kind of game you are playing. Welcome to the Tribe!

Not sure about that...they come from slightly different parts of the game. Artefacts come from choosing your home Realm. Access to the spell lore (and Realmscape features) come from what Realm you are playing in. So it would be quite conceivable to rule for a tournament that everyone gets to choose a "home" Realm where they are from (and therefore accesses Artefacts). But you do not play in a Realm (so no Spells). In fact I think that will quite a common approach.

Looks cool, but is 2x 20 Morr Boys the most efficient way to do things? I'd consider 1x30 and 1x10 maybe, to free up 60 points? Give yourself an immovable object and a screen. Also I'd say the Geminids are almost strictly better than the Jaws? They have to move across (not end within), but you get a massive 18" deploy range to help with that. And it means they can't be flung straight back at you once they're so far away. So you're almost getting the second one, with its amazing debuff, for free? Always love to see some Troggoths in there! It would be great to hear how they go. And finally - don't you want Brutal Beast Spirits in there? It's usually the second one I put in after Hand of Gork.

What could be really nice is that a lot of people will probably make Hysh their go to because Banishment is so eye-catching, not realising how much Vengeful Illumination helps a Kunnin Rukk (especially since it is not phase specific). So you will probably be able to agree on Hysh a percentage of the time without even going to the 50:50 roll off.

@Malakree I hope you're right (anything that gets through the ridiculous Stormcast armour saves is welcome in my eyes), but RAW I would have to say 3. and 4. do not apply. Moving the spell around / controlling it isn't casting it, and as far as I can see there is nothing in there making any stipulations about controlling it - only that the spell was cast by an enemy wizard, which in 1. and 2. it was, in 3. and 4. it wasn't. It's an unusual interaction and worth sending off to the FAQ team, but as it stands unfortunately I don't see that the rules for moving an Endless Spell after setup counteract the fact that an enemy wizard (yours) cast that spell. At least you could hurt them by moving their own Endless Spell back over them in this scenario (it wasn't cast by an enemy wizard).