PlasticCraic

You could also just go for more CPs and a guaranteed Triumph Allegiance: BonesplitterzMortal Realm: ShyishLeadersSavage Big Boss (120)- General- Stonecleava- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint - Artefact: The Ragged Cloak Maniak Weirdnob (120)- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or MorkManiak Weirdnob (120)- Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast SpiritsWardokk (100)- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Bone Krusha (or Kunnin Beast Spirits)Battleline30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420)30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420)10 x Savage Orruks (120)10 x Savage Orruks (120)BattalionsBonegrinz Warclan (110)Kunnin' Rukk (200)Total: 1850 / 2000Extra Command Points: 5Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 183

Yeah that's a really good point, the Hand on the Wardokk is more than just redundancy. If you get the +1s to cast, you can risk casting it with them, and liberate the Maniak to cast his Warscroll spell. Kunnin'

@mcbrain I'm with Sam on this one, Brutal Beast Spirits and Hand of Gork are the must-haves. Rerolling 1s is a nice to have. I think you need those two spells on the guys with the rerolls to cast (perched out of unbind range). Stacking CPs will do plenty of damage without the rerolls anwyay. I do like the Shotgun Shammy though (Bone Krusha and Wurggog Mask combo). I've used him a fair bit and I think if you use the last 200 points for Wardokks, that's the loadout. I like the redundancy on Hand of Gork too. The other contender would be Kunnin Beast Spirits, for when you buff up the first unit and throw it to the dogs.

What I like about the army is: - The initial fusilade with the stacked SBB CAs is utterly devastating to most armies. The fact it stacks is truly wonderful - You are 1 drop - This is key because it lets you go first against unkillable stuff before they get the buffs off - And on the Hero missions, it lets you get on the objectives first and use the CPs to either nuke their Heroes, or Run 6" multiple times and jam up the board - You get 5 rolls at a free unit, 3 of them on good units - Across a 5-game event, you will probably have 1 game where you get nothing back, 1 where you get multiple units back, and a few where you get 1 unit back - The army is more than capable of competing in most matchups without the free summoning, but in the games where you do get it, it will be devastating I've got a couple more games lined up this weekend with a couple of competitive players practicing their CanCon lists, I'll let you know how it goes! Can people let me know your thoughts on the third artefact please? Wurggog Mask or something else?

@5kaven5lave I've actually been looking at very, very similar lists. In fact I used one last night, where it was absolutely devastating against a 2-drop Sylvaneth list. My main suggestion would be to switch the wizards for 2x Maniak Weirdnobs. The rerolls on the casts are priceless, especially since you can roll on the backline out of unbind range. I failed my first Hand of Gork, then rerolled it to a success (on a double, no less!) and that reroll literally won me the game. You are sacrificing 1 cast but in terms of executing what you are trying to do, I think the rerolls are essential. My list was the same as yours (with the wizard switch). Spells are obvious. I took the anti-shooting artefact on the Savage Big Boss (thanks to @svnvaldez for that one) and the 36" +1 to unbind artefact too. I'm open to suggestions on the third artefact, but took the Wurggog Mask. 4+ Mortal Wound save Command Trait. For the last 200 points, I used 4x Big Stabbas for some punch (and because I love them). I'm not sure they're optimum though. You might be better off taking a 3rd wizard and banking a CP or 2?

Yeah I would agree with that. My own 2 cents is that they are good, fun but pretty tricksy - maybe not the best jumping on point for a newcomer to the game. If you like green things, the Orruks are a bit more straightforward.

Yeah I think you are on the right track but I would go further. I don't think 380 is unreasonable for a Maw Krusha, not relative to the other big things out there. Yes he has a good Command Ability, but for a combat army we are chronically underpowered in the modern age without it. I think the Brutes could come down to 160 and the Ironfist to 100. I really think we are at least 300 points off the pace currently. Hopefully part of that would come from the front runners having their points nudged updwards too. But I really don't feel like I'm a single unit of Brutes (180 points) away from being able to mix it on an even footing with armies that have modern tech. That being the case I think a 200 point reduction in a typical force is reasonable. Better rules is a far superior solution (we chronically need a new book). But if we're doing it with points alone, they need to be pretty steep decreases in my opinion. It might sound like a lot, but other armies that are already in better shape than us regularly put units worth more than that back on the table for nothing.

I think you have hit the nail on the head @heywoah_twitch, the problem is that the book is so bad, there is precious little incentive to take pure BCR. If you point them appropriately to reflect their abysmal Allegiance Abilities, the key units become too good in a Mixed army. It's quite a pickle. I believe that playing with the Batallions and Battleline If (as you have suggested) is the best way of achieving that given the contraints. And although the Batallions themselves are generally of limited use, a second Realm artefact on a second Frostlord would be dynamite. Keeping the Tuskard down is a smart political move, in terms of heading off the easy complaint at the pass. 380 points is horrific compared to units like a Frostheart Phoenix or Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, but people don't want to hear it. Let him take one for the team. Just make Yhetees and Frost Sabres Battleline If BCR Allegiance imo, stop messing around with Generals altogether. Yhetees are still a pretty strong (albeit extemely fragile) unit. This army could be so, so cool with a new book. In our lifetime, I think your suggestions are the next best thing. PS. I'm cautiously optimistic that Gutbusters could get a new book in 2019, which would help a little with Allies potentially too.

My favourite thing is the extra D3 damage on Monsters. It's absolutely devastating. I one-shotted Archaon with a unit 4 the other day Also, I put up a poll on Twitter for which army I should take to a one-day event in January...the winner was a ridiculous army with 12 Big Stabbas and a Teef Rukk. Done. What do you guys think, should I run it as is, or squeeze in a Warboss? Allegiance: Bonesplitterz Leaders Savage Big Boss (120) - General - Stonecleava - Trait: Squirmy Warpaint Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or Mork Wardokk (100) - Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask - Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Bone Krusha Battleline 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420) 10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280) 5 x Savage Boarboyz (100) Units 6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300) 6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300) Battalions Teef Rukk (100) Endless Spells Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 176

@broche I understand what you mean now, I thought you meant you would try to keep the pinning unit (30 Savages) away from Nagash. Keeping the buffing wizards out of unbind range makes sense.

I really like this army! Is it possible to pin Death and still be 30" away from Nagash? I would have thought you'd be right up close to him if you're pinning him back? That being said - he can't really hide from a Kunnin Rukk. Against a Nagash army I would expect you to be able to shoot him off Turn 1? It's a really good list.

@broche I don't disagree, but where would you squeeze the extra 20 points from? Only thing I can really see is Warboss -> Savage Big Boss? Unless you lose big block of Morr Boys and go 30-10-10 instead of 30-30 (frees up 60 points, so 40 spare after the Big Stabbas come in)?

@mcbrain Fair enough...I mean you are very close to fitting in another 4, but there is nowhere obvious in your list to squeeze out 20 points. I've never taken them as allies myself, so I'm theoryhammering like you, but they don't seem like the worst option in the world. Maybe a little pricey compared to the elite combat options other armies have (cost more than Enlightened, virtually the same as Evocators). But that's Destruction Life. Pay more, get less!

Well if we're wishlisting...Maybe just change their Pitch Battle profile in the next GH to give us 4 models for the current cost of 3?

I've thought about this a fair bit, and IMO the current warscroll is almost impossible to point fairly. A single, incredibly swingy attach can only be so cheap. I mean, as James said above, I wouldn't take one at 100, no way. Compare the output (and durability) to a Ballista and it's a bit of a joke. I would consider them at 80 but really they'd have to be 60 points before I'd take multiples. It won't happen, because there's no way GW can be bothered to type out a sentence on our behalf, but I think a better solution would be to issue an Erratum in the January FAQ that changes the number of attacks on their weapon profile upwards.

I like it, they synergise nicely with the Warboss and give you some much-needed rend. They are even thematic with their "Duff up the Big Thing" rule! There are obviously synergy downsides, since they can't get the Hero Phase pile in or receive the buffing spells for example, but you have other units for that. I think it would work pretty well.

Well I've done that wrong then! No wonder it seemed good.

@Intrinsic thanks, that makes sense. I like the early scurry on Sourtounge. I've only used the Warband once, and I was lucky enough to get Volley Caller out early - combined with Prog in support, it can be absolutely devastating. That's probably my main takeaway so far actually - the Low Cunning upgrade is excellent in combination with Volley Caller. Those arrows shooting twice, with +1 damage...it's like a little Kunnin Rukk!

Hey @broche that's right, the Spells are mainly there to shield your Big Stabbas until you are ready to hit. With the Boarboys (sideways), scenery and the spells, you should be able to block off units and / or create choke points. They are mainly a cheaper way of controlling more of the board while preventing your Big Stabbas getting shot off. Maybe as an artefact you could take the Hypersnare Seeds for added control? Also the Geminids are there to stack with the Troggoth Hag and hopefully cripple the enemy with stacking debuffs to hit. When you have manouvered into position, you can either fly the Big Stabbas over the top of the road blocks with Hand of Gork, or if you want to win a cookie you can push the Endless Spells up against a Monster like Skarbrand, then Teef Rukk pile into him without needing to complete a charge. Boarboys are there to screen and grab objectives, while the Maniaks are similar but with a possibility to beat down minimum Battleline or a lone Hero guarding an objective. Honestly it’s very light on bodies – the sheer volume of Big Stabbas is probably too much of a luxury with so many points tied up in an Allied Monster. But it’s a lot different from how I’ve ever ran Bonesplitterz before and I think it could be interesting to give it a go!

Just as an attempt at something totally different - here's a first draft attempt at a control + counter punch list. Setting up multiple hurdles for the opponent to get past, then debuffing them + hitting like a train when they do. What do you guys think, could it have any legs? Any changes you would make? Allegiance: BonesplitterzLeadersWurrgog Prophet (140)Maniak Weirdnob (120)Wardokk (100)Troggoth Hag (380)- AlliesBattleline5 x Savage Boarboyz (100)5 x Savage Boarboyz (100)5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)10 x Savage Orruk Morboys (120)Units6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)BattalionsTeef Rukk (100)Endless SpellsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Prismatic Palisade (30)Suffocating Gravetide (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 380 / 400Wounds: 146

Yeah I guess with Kop Rukk, you need to go the whole hog and build everything around ramping up the volume of attacks on the Morr Boys (and Big Stabbas). Multiple pile ins and Allied Warboss - which rules out the Hag straight away. She'll never go to waste mate, she is useful throughout the GA. I've been playing mostly Mixed recently and she's good in that too.

@mcbrain I think she'd work quite well in terms of being a durable Wizard and Hero for objective claiming (I've used her quite a bit in Ironjawz for that role). In terms of synergy with KBS specifically, bear in mind that rerolls are before modifiers. So although your opponent is rerolling hits of "6 or more", in practice they are effectively rerolling natural 6s only, because it can't become "or more" until modifiers are applied. Which is good, because it means that with her spell, a natural 6 does not get modified to a 5, and therefore not rerolled. It has to be rerolled first, and then reduced by -1 to whatever the new result is. So yes, I think it would be quite a nice combo, to make a bit unit extra slippery to deal with ? KBR is usually the 3rd spell I take personally. You could also further stack -1 to hits with Geminids. The Palisade (esp if you're not using Arrow Boys), Gravetide and Shackles can also add to the denial / control angle. You can achieve a similar denial effect with allied Moonclan too (netters and fanatics, or Zarbag's Gits), but it's an "either / or" the Hag or Moonclan because of the Allies cap. I think it comes down to a trade off between the extra reliability of Moonclan debuffs and denial vs the extra objective capturing power the Hag brings to the table?

What would people do to finish off this list? Upgrade the Boar Boys? Split the second block of Morr Boys into MSU? Take some damage Endless Spells? Take some board control Endless Spells? Take the Triumph? (I'm usually pretty keen on a Triumph, but this army already has loads of rerolls and CPs). LeadersWurrgog Prophet (140)Maniak Weirdnob (120)Wardokk (100)Wardokk (100)Wardokk (100)Orruk Warboss (140)- Great Waaagh Banner- AlliesBattleline30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)5 x Savage Boarboyz (100)Units4 x Savage Big Stabbas (200)BattalionsDrakkfoot Warclan (140)Kop Rukk (200)Total: 1940 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 140 / 400Wounds: 184

Question for the group (not just relevant to Bonesplitterz, but certainly relevant to the current discussion of Kopp Rukk + Warboss). Do we think the Waaagh! stacks? Reading the Warscroll alone, my thoughts were No, because it's a "state". But reading the FAQ, I've completely flipped 180 on it. The FAQ sets the bar very, very high for not stacking. I am definitely not convinced that debates about whether you can be Frenzied multiple times would be specifically noting that it does not stack. Based on the FAQ, it would have to literally say "This can only be used once per Hero Phase". Which it doesn't. I'd always check something like this with a TO in advance, if it's not 100% clear. But the burden of proof is completely skewed - if it's not clear, it stacks. Page 3 of the main FAQ: Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same model to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase? A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise.

I don't know anything about shield wolf specifically, but head swaps have always worked fine for me. There's not that much that can go wrong with a head swap generally?