GhostShark

Star wars: Legion uses a similar system, and it works very well. You blindly choose tokens representing orders for the types of units you activate, but you also have lots of options for control. Some commanders can activate units, some units generate their own orders and can activate themselves. Some units benefit from being activated sooner or later. Its a fantastically complex and tactical system and once I played it I found I hate going back to the traditional GW style.

In addition to this, I just personally don't want Malerion and his randos. I bought and play Daughters for hot snake women and bikini elves. I'd be extremely disappointed if the army's theme was subverted to make room for something totally different. Like if the next Fyreslayers wave was Chaos Dwarves, or the Skaven relaunch combined them with Beastmen. Also, none of the shadow elf stuff I've seen so far impresses me at all. The Shadowstalkers are super over busy while still managing to feel very generic.

(I'm responding to you, but this is really just a general comment on this moderation discussion, and not actually targeted at you) I don't really feel like this thread CAN be derailed. When there's actual AOS stuff to talk about, it dominates the thread. When there isn't AOS stuff to talk about we have the same half dozen AOS comments over and over, its no wonder conversation drifts to something else in the meantime. Honestly, its always frustrating to me to see a good conversation halted out of some need to keep communication in rigid categories. Telling people not to talk about TOH (a game deeply connected to AOS thematically, historically and through models) so the thread can be clear for the same 5 people to post the same 5 things over and over again when there's nothing else to talk about is just really weird. Why limit good conversation? Thats my input.

But nothing can be done about that now. Its in the past. Its over.

I mean, thats not how this works, right? they update things when they get around to it, not all at once way back ay the beginning of AoS.

I mean, this may suggest that the Skaven revamp will be significant enough that they'd no longer be the same range.

I'm really resistant to the idea that these armies are "dead on arrival". On arrival they'll have as much support as any other TOW army, bar the two that are getting arcane journals right away. In the past many WHFB armies went years without any kind of update at all. This doesn't seem different to me. And since TOW's core 9 armies are unlikely to have frequent updates anyway I'm not seeing this as much of an issue. Also, is it even a big deal? I plan on playing Dark Elves and Lizardmen and I'm not bothered by this at all. My rules will be available (for free!) and both armies have a deep model range to choose from. Yes, I won't be seeing regular updates for either army... but the constant codex/army book cycle we suffer from in other games isn't that appealing anyway. I'd rather have one stable list I can play for years. Plus, as I said above, I don't expect the rule for any TOW army to change or be updated very often. These armies are only "dead on arrival" if you insist they are.

We don't know for sure, but I'd bet that as AoS armies receive changes in the future their models that get replaced/resculpted may show up in TOW. Over in the rumors thread it was suggested that if Beasts of Chaos get a big redo in AoS that replaces their existing like, the existing line would probably become exclusive to TOW. I wonder if the same might happen for Skaven? If the Skaven AOS rework is big enough to replace most of their line, I think its likely that the replaced models become the official TOW line, and Skaven eventually get the same TOW support as the main 9 factions. Same with Dark Elves. It seems very likely to me that as model ranges get phased out of AOS they'll gain support in TOW. But I guess there's no way to know for now and we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah. Honestly, so many of the posts here in the last 24 hours have been really embarrassing.

Well, good news. Instead of throwing a fit and making stuff up you CAN actually use your Dark Elf army in TOW. They will be completely playable.

All armies will have rules and points. They've stated this so many times.

But you can play them? They'll have official rules for TOW. So what is the actual problem?

I mean, that's basically exactly what they've said. They're been pretty plain about it. They've said they only have resources to focus on so many armies at a time, so for now they've settled on these 9 to be the focus. Other armies will be playable, but won't be getting support for now. They've been very clear.

Do we have any reason to think it will be 6 months between releases? It certainly could be, but the rumor that originally said that Dwarves vs Orcs would be coming in 6 months looks to be fake. I also wonder if releasing 2 boxes at the same time was only done for the launch (so there'd be two playable armies to buy) and instead we'll see individual army boxes released every few months.

I wonder. You're right that you don't see rulebooks in Vanguard and Combat Patrol boxes, but this is a different kind of product. It really is a starter set. If you don't already have an army you HAVE to but one of these sets. There's no other official way to play the game. If they discontinue these sets they'll have to make the contents available separately on a permanent basis. After all, these are the core of each army. If these units aren't available than the army isn't playable. Which means the game isn't playable, at least for new players that don't already own an army. So they'll need to either keep these boxes available or keep all the individual units available. I could see either way. Doing the boxes does mean having just 1 sku and a very easy point of entry for new players. On the other hand, a player who wants to start 2 armies isn't going to need to big rulebooks. So maybe we'll eventually see the contents repackaged without a rulebook and the big centerpiece new model?

God yes.

They literally JUST did this a few years ago. In fact, they're still in the middle of their huge ongoing Space Marine refresh. And by all accounts its been hugely successful. Why would they stop that now to do something new?

I really hate the new edition grind. Its much less of a problem in AoS, but it caused me to leave 40K forever. In AoS at least there seems to be a constant drive toward refining and improving the rules with each edition. 40ks new editions just seem like pointless changes every few years, just to sell is the same stuff over and over. It also seems disingenuous to me to keep endlessly doing new editions. If the point of a new edition is to improve the game by fixing problems, then why do we need a new one every 3 years? Didn't you fix the problems? If not, what are you doing? Personally, I'd much rather see much longer editions. I know people say "new editions keep the game fresh", but there are plenty of ways to do that without restarting the rules and army book cycle every 3 years. Honestly, its an awful cycle and I'm really tired of it.

Except they sell old versions of miniatures all the time. Their made-to-order stuff. I expect that we'll see a LOT of old models come back as limited time made-to-order. That way people who do want them can get them. I suspect this is how armies like Lizardmen will be eventually handled. In fact, I think thats whats happening with a lot of teh photos that are confusing people. I think GW has painted up tons of old models to use in photos and displays, and plans to offer them as made-to-order for a limited time. But I don't think they plan to bring them back forever if theres a modern equivalent. Like the Treeman. So this would allow people who want those old models to get them without having to keep a massive library of out of date and low demand models in stock forever. It also allows them to take nostalgia filled pictures for their books and websites that make the Old World feel like a blast from the past, even if a lot of players will ultimately end up using many newer models.

The game wasn't available for them to try. If they were interested at the time, they'd discover it didn't exist. It does now, and I'm sure some number of those players will try it. Not an enormous number, of course. As you said, the timing isn't right. But the Old World doesn't need an enormous number of players to survive. Even a tiny percentage of Total War players, less than 1%, would be a boon to Old World.

Thats fine. Table top wargaming is a relatively small bobby compared to computer games. what is miniscule for Total War will be fairly sizable for The Old World. I agree it won't be a large percentage of Total War players, but even a small percent will be significant.

Oh, it was for Underworlds. No wonder I couldn't find it!

Did the Skaven Warcry band hat was previewed during the Summer ever actually get released? I can't find it anywhere.

I'm sure you'd be right. But the problem still remains. Instead of getting a new wave of DoK, we'd be getting some other thing.

As a DoK player who got into the army for sexy elf women I'd be really disappointed if we finally got an other wave and it WASN'T sexy elf women, but some other thing entirely.