Magnusaur

Does that mean we're looking at (least) two different "paladin" style units? The units in the trailer looked plenty big as is, but then we also got Praetorians alongside Annihilators last time around. Also, anyone care to speculate on the "Behemoth" Skaven model? A huuuge Moulder monster? A massive warp cannon? The biggest bell the Mortal Realms has seen so far? All of the above?

I hate these! That's right, you heard me. Hate, hate, hate. So much in fact, you know what I'll do? I'll buy a whooole bunch of them, just to sacrifice on the altar of Sotek. Yup, definitely not starting an army of these stupidly good miniatures. Not even a little. - - - Okay, maybe even a little.

Just to comment on the Treeman thing, The Old World books use the old sculpts in Wood Elf displays:

Agreed. Good point!

Lovely looking new Skaven! I hope GW doesn't catch wind and changes today's reveal to be this instead!

Speaking of Underworlds teasing new design, I like how Xandire's Truthseekers previewed the new Liberator hammer. (Obviously Annihilators did too to an extent, but their hammers are a bit more ornamented and their armor is different.) EDIT: To add to this, it's not that I want every hammer, sword, or mark of armor to look identical across the range, but I think a bit of streamlining and homogenization helps strengthen the identity and appeal of the army. If GW wants Stormcast to be "iconic", a bit of uniformity to certain aspects of their design language doesn't hurt. Slightly warmer take, maybe, but I would also love to have them do this with some of the Knight- and Lord titles. Celestant, Arcanum, and Relictor sounds awesome. I'd rather they reuse such titles a little more, rather than always coming up with something new. It's less stuff for people to remember and it makes the military structure of the army seem more cohesive.

Any takes on when we'll see the full reveal of the launch box? No Warhammer Fest this year, but are we still looking at something this month (aside from weekly/biweekly previews).

Stormcast & more already marked as "last chance to buy" on the American webstore.

I really don't see any direct replacement of made-for-AoS kits in the near future, like Fyreslayers. Flesh-Eaters got the new Cryptguard which could have easily been a replacement of the basic ghouls, but now the two co-exist. Like literally every other range except Stormcast, their range isn't bloated beyond belief.

Ultimately, I think it's clear that the situation with Stormcast is different from that of Beasts and Bonesplitterz. Skaven are getting a huge refresh which will supplant at least a good portion of their old stuff. Nothing too crazy there, a bunch of armies (Guard, Necrons, Tyranids) have been stealth-losing old kits for the past few years. At least GW is upfront about Skaven here. This feels like a part of the company's "update-or-die" mentality, which I'm okay with. Nothing to say those kits won't return in an updated form further down the line. Beasts are going to The Old World. I feel bad for those who collect them and it's a shame they never got a real shot at impact the Mortal Realms, model-wise. Good thing they'll live on in The Old World. Again, we may see Pestigors or Khorngors down the line, or even a completely reimagined take on "dark twisted things lurking in the wood", but as of now, they're gone. Bonesplitterz. I don't know their Age of Sigmar lore and so for me they always felt like unlikely survivors of the original purge. I am inclined to believe that their removal is at least partially related to how their aesthetic might be construed as being racist, stereotypical, whatever. I don't know this, obviously, and it sucks for collectors regardless. And then, Stormcast. I can't help but wonder... How much of the perception that the older models are fat, ugly, outdated, whatever, is shaped by the fact that they've released so many of them? I think a lot of it is relativistic. Liberators would have their fans and detractors, but their reason for existence wouldn't really be called into question if it wasn't because of Vanguard-Hunters, Sequitors, Vindictors, and now, an updated version. Termagants, Ork Boyz, Necron Warriors, and Cadian Guardsmen were all around for nearly 20 years. Even then, people argued they didn't need updates. Liberators aren't even 10 years old (well kind of, since they were designed well before release), but now many agree they seem outdated. It feels like producing too many models that are too similar will eventually cannibalize the range, because clear winners and losers will emerge. Anyway, I wouldn't personally worry about anything that's been designed and released for Age of Sigmar specifically. I think Stormcast are an anomaly in that regard. I can totally see people being worried about Ogors now, though...

The exact lore mechanics behind the introduction of Primaris (in particular) was (and kind of still is) very contentious. I think this line of reasoning is attributing too much creative control to the former CEO, but who knows.

My condolences to all collectors of Beastmen and Bonesplitterz. Morrslieb hangs low in the sky, this will be remembered as a dark day indeed. Took me like an hour to read every post/page from the past few hours. Wanted to take it all in. I really can't blame anyone for having strong feelings about this, least of all the people who - like me - spend time their free time discussing rumors about plastic dolls, on something as antiquated as a forum. We're a passionate bunch, nothing wrong with that. On a personal level, I was most surprised by the wholesale removal of the Sacrosanct range. Not just a few kits here and there, but all of it. Meanwhile, the Extremis and Vanguard models - stuff I would have better liked to see Thunderstrike versions of - remains untouched. Strange. It could be that an update to Sacrosanct is already in the plans. Maybe not a 1:1 do-over, but a partial remake and expansion. Maybe the old Sacrosanct will be re-released if and when that time comes. Could be that GW is simply culling the bloat with no plans for direct replacements. Whatever the case, it's pretty disheartening to see so many plastic kits be retired after less than 6 years of service. Perhaps I am being naïve, but I hope GW learns something from the kind of cannibalistic release practices that has characterized much of the Primaris and Stormcast ranges. Stormcast may be much more popular than Nighthaunt (or a similar army), but at the end of the day, the Chainrasps released in Soul Wars aren't butting heads with four other flavors of "basic Ghost troop" the same way Sequitors are, for example. It all just feels a bit unsustainable, as is. But who am I kidding, if they really are planning to remake these, then the "lesson" learned from all this is a lot more sinister. Time will tell. And just to add the thinnest of silver linings, this list will at least give us some fuel for speculation about future Skaven releases and such...

I don't really understand the argument here. Models aren't being made obsolete. Even if swords are no longer an option, chances are that the warscroll will use an ambiguous term like "Sigmarite weapon" or alternatively they can easily be proxied. No options = no confusion. These fellas will definitely be on 40mm bases as well, so I don't understand what rebasing has to do with it either. Now, if you really want to make people feel like their army is obsolete, you don't update their models - you create new units that are better and more sparkly. That's why Primaris (and to some extent, the initial reveal of Thunderstrike) felt a lot more nefarious to me. Vindictors having a better armor save definitely ruffled some feathers, 3 years ago. If anything, this being a mostly 1:1 replacement means older players have the opportunity to go "nah, not for me", while prospective Stormcast collectors might be lured in by the new design. Having said all of that, I can appreciate that we are in uncharted territory here. Even more so than some of the Space Marine kits that recently got superseded (Assault Marines, Sternguard Veterans), the old Liberator kit - divisive design or not - is by all accounts a good, modern plastic kits. Seeing resources used on updating kits that only the loosest sense could be considered "old" does not exactly spark joy with me. And it's a little weird to think that going forward, future kit updates will start to supplant otherwise decent plastic kits, rather than the crappy resin/metal stuff of yesteryear. Anyway, looking back on the first few awkward years of Age of Sigmar, I really feel like Games Workshop rushed the constant expansion of the Stormcast range. They were trying too hard, throwing an absolutely sickening amount of kits at the wall to see what would stick. And it took a while for them to realize that their priorities perhaps needed a bit of adjustment - the thing that made Stormcast click with people wasn't necessarily the massive shoulderpads or pseudo-Bolter weaponry, but a compelling background, helmetless faces, and more diverse body types. After blowing up the Old World, the Stormcast were almost literally passed the torch of continuing a fantastical and epic Warhammer universe. That privilege at the time felt unearned, as did the myriad releases that followed. But I feel like a lot has changed since then, and the people making dated jokes about Stormcast being mere "Ground Marines" are really just showing their own inability to meaningfully connect with the universe. I don't ever want to see a release schedule of any army similar to the grotesque amount of golden metal men that were shat out during 2015-2016, but I also don't want the Stormcast of today to suffer under the mistakes of the past. The current, 3-year-cycle feels much more healthy and if part of those releases become an attempt to rehabilitate earlier concepts, then I'm okay with that. (Sorry for writing a novel. This wasn't meant to come across as being argumentative, just a lot of thoughts, I guess.)

Those are some massive hammers indeed. Makes the Annihilators look positively modest by comparison. Excited to see more faces and variety in body types going forward.

After the trailer reveal, how are we feeling about this rumor? Seems like a mostly educated guess. It doesn't say that the other resin/metal weapon teams are moving away, though. Pretty sure by the end of the full Skaven release, the army will have no resin whatsoever - either due to being replaced or squatted. That's where Tyranids ended up, anyway. It didn't explicitly call the Clawlord(?) on Wolfrat(?) from the trailer, but maybe that's just part of "Wolfrats". As for how the new Clanrats might look, these comparison might give us some idea...

Just reposting this here, in case it might stir our resident rumor-oracles from their ancient slumber... Stolen from reddit, in turn taken from some Discord server:

I honestly can't imagine them shoving 40 Clanrats into the box. I know Island of Blood had that many, but these will no doubt be a tad bigger (from what we've seen of the leaked artillery piece) and include a teensy bit more options. I think 20 Clanrats and 10x Skavenslaves, Giant Rats or some other chaff gets included. With Leviathan, Termagants got pumped up to 28mm bases and a 5+ Armor Save, with the new Neurogants being added as the true "chaff".

New Liberator looks... fine? I certainly don't hate it, but I think (in this case) painting the noseguard gold would make it harmonize more with the rest of the trim. I think these will look great next a unit of Vindictors. As for whether or not people would have liked Stormcast better if they had looked like this originally... Obviously, the reception was dictated by the circumstances of ending WHFB and so on, there's really no way to discount that context. But personally, it was never the "fatness" of the OG Stormcast that bothered me. Even seeing them side by side, I still like aspects of the original. The things I actively dislike(d) about the original wave of models are 1) the gaudy paint scheme and excessive lightning bolt iconography, 2) the absence of helmetless heads, making the entire army look dead and monotonous and making players think that they were Thousand Son-style automata, and 3) the lack of diversity in body types. Sequitors addressed all three of these well enough that I would have been happy to accept those as the standard template for Stormcast going forward, but here we are. I do think Thunderstrike looks great as well, and people certainly seem to have connected with these, especially as the setting matures and the miniatures released become a little more grounded and less gaudy-looking. Now show me a damn Clanrat! I want to know what the enemies of Sotek look like already!

I don't know if The Old World will be on a 3-year-cycle like the main games, but I'm fully expecting the re-release of old (supported) armies to take most of this year, leaving campaigns and what not for next year. Maybe then we'll see Kislev and Cathay...

I may have just been missing the forest for the trees or my coldblooded nature makes me slow to catch on, but... Has it been rumored/speculated/suggested that the rebooted Cities of Sigmar's de-emphasis on the interspecies composition of the Cities was informed by a need to free up those older Dwarf/Dark Elf/Empire kits for The Old World? What's been the TGA take on this?

To be fair, The Old World wasn't around back then, even if we knew it was coming. The doomsaying can get tiresome, but I understand why people are confused, concerned, and prone to panicking in a situation like this. There's no real precedent for models being shared/torn between game systems like this (except maybe Daemons) and needless to say Games Workshop are not doing much to alleviate concerns. I believe they provided us with the name for new Varanguard champion, Abraxia.

As someone who has often been hesitant about Age of Sigmar's rather abstract worldbuilding, I appreciate today's primer. A strong sense of scale and place is what I miss the most from the setting. One question for the loreheads: the article describes Azyr as "hanging between the realms". Why is that? What makes Azyr special? Is it the because it holds the core of the World-That-Was? Is Azyr the functional sun of the other realms? Or is the whole thing meant more as a metaphor (the home of Order keeping an eye on the rest of the universe).

My speculation on the contents of the new launch box ("Ruination"): Stormcast 1x Lord-Ruinator on Birb 3x "Ruinators" 10x Reforged Liberators 3x Reforged Prosecutors One or two additional character models. Skaven 1x Warlord on Giant Rat 20x Clanrats 10x Giant Rats (chaff, like Scarab Swarms - I know a rumor said they were going away, buuut) 3x Jezzails 1x New Artillery Thing 1x Rat Ogor One, maybe two additional character models, like a Grey Seer. This seems to align itself pretty closely with both Dominion and Leviathan. I don't think we'll see Stormvermin in the launch box. They feel very much like a "next step" kit to me, a la new Genestealers.

I was never a Dwarfs guy, but I love seeing all the new and returning stuff. Really impressed by the general quality of the kits, their age taken into consideration. How old is the Warriors kit? Also really exciting to see more plastic releases outside of Tomb Kings and Bretonnia!

Anyone care to speculate on new/reforged Stormcast units? Looks like we'll have updated Liberators and Prosecutors, in addition to the new "Ruinators". Then there's the Ruinator on bird-gryph. I'm wondering if they will update Judicators as well. Ruinators feel like they fit the Paladin-class, so doubt we'll see updated Retributors. With Prosecutors getting redone, I can't help but wonder if we'll see a new Celestant-Prime? Could even have it be a new character and/or a one-his-last-reforging version. "How the mighty have fallen." In terms of pure speculation, I would love to see more artillery, chariots, altars - anything "artificial" that breaks up the monotony of armored dudes & dudettes. Would love an easy-to-build Knight-Draconis or even a Lord-Draconis on a majestic new dragon. Not that we really need another big dragon model, but I think we're automatically past talking about *need* when we're discussing Stormcast...