TechnoVampire

That’s really helpful. I thought they did as I was sure I had read that, but couldn’t find it. it confirms my artefact choice in my nagash list 😊 Thanks for helping!

Hi, Quick question about ward save rolls and bonuses provided to them. if you have multiple abilities providing a bonus to ward save rolls do they stack? the example I’m looking at is SBGL grave-sand shard: “once/game add 1 to rolls for deathless minions” and Death magic incarnate: “… add 1 to ward rolls for that unit until the end of that phase” ?? (thanks)

I think it’s ok to hope that the devs are capable of recognising issues in tomes that are as old as 3 years, and applying a little knowledge and creativity to change the core mechanics, making them better and more interesting, without breaking the game. Gitz have consistently been one of the worst performing armies, so it’s clear they have issues. I would hope that they could solve some of these issues with more than warscroll upgrades, and try to address the core mechanics. It’s been years. I don’t think that’s too much to expect. I’m optimistic that the new Gitz tome will be more than that, but copy pasting old tomes like we’ve seen with factions like skaven, without doing anything new where necessary, just feels lazy.

Its just my opinion. I began by acknowledging the revealed changes are positive, however the moon is currently the only gloomspite allegiance ability, so for me if they’ve recognised that things being completely random generally isn’t actually that fun, and changing them in warscrolls, only to have them remain in the sole allegiance ability, that will really undermine those changes. I think not having allegiance ability’s outside of a 12” bubble on turn 1 is bad game design, but it really is my hope that they’ll have changed that.

I agree. The rules they previewed were all positive, but if they haven’t sorted out the random nature of the moon it will all be in vain. I find it hard to believe they would have recognised that completely random movement characteristics, or multiple dice rolls for an underwhelming regeneration wasn’t fun and fixed those, while leaving one situational allegiance ability, that’s completely random and doesn’t activate until the second turn. It’s GW though, so you can never be sure. The fact that they haven’t changed the moon buffs is dull if nothing else.

(Im also not convinced of an imminent new tomb for the same reasons)

I completely agree. I understood that’s what you meant in your previous post, and when trying to predict what we might see in a future tomb, GW’s perspective is the only one that matters. I feel like they are maybe moving in the right direction by at least using metrics like win rate and competitive play as markers of what needs changing, as opposed to whatever random methods they used before (potential profit predictions?). Maybe in the future we will even see them start to take community feedback on board. I’m also totally with you on vampire lords, they don’t align with their supposed power or lore at all, and I feel that’s an area SBGL are lacking in more generally.

I think from a GW perspective a lot of what you say makes sense. They’re definitely a company (like the vast majority) driven by profits, metrics and sales, and I wouldn’t be expecting major changes if a new book comes out this year. I’m not convinced there are compelling reasons to reprint a carbon copy book, but I can see it happening. GSG, BOC and FEC sat on their books for over 3 years and some of them didn’t even have sub-factions. It seems unlikely that GW would want to print the same book a year later just to include a white dwarf update, even from a sales point of view, although if they did it for LRL, then it’s definitely not out-with the reals of possibility. I think the current book has many aspects that could be changed or improved, but I understand I’m looking at it from a players perspective and not a company who are ultimately driven by profits. Despite the rumours I’m not convinced that there will be a book this year, but If it’s a going to be a copy of the current one I’d prefer they just waited and utilised the resources for more interesting releases.

What would be the point in this if they did it? I imagine very few people who own the current book would buy a new one just to have a new warscroll and the white dwarf updates included... mind you it’s GW so who knows. I hope there’s more included if we are getting a new book this year. I like a lot about the current book, but there’s plenty that could be improved and updated. It would be a waste of everyone’s time of they don’t add or change anything.

If skaven are anything to go by GW currently have 0 motivation to do this. It’s a big middle finger to people who have been collecting for decades and just want models that compare with the newer army’s.

The Christmas reveals so far have felt pretty underwhelming. I feel like GW have been drip feeding us information and models they’ve had sitting around for some amount of time. The StD release was a nice surprise, but new battletome announcements and random hero models aren’t particularly news worthy or exciting to me in the grand scheme of things. I hope 2023 is a bit more eventful for AOS 🤞

Thanks for sharing… some annoying little points increases for SBGL that are going to throw a bunch of my lists off.

Excuse my ignorance on the topic but has a reboxing always indicated a new battletome so far?

I have a lot of love for the SBGL book, but I feel there are a lot of improvements that could be made. There are some wins like; sub factions, allegiance ability’s, command traits… but others things like the lore of the vampires for example sadden me 😭

That would be exciting, but I assumed that the two new death battletome’s announced for next year would be OBR and FEC 😣

On another note does anyone feel like the majority of vampire hero’s are pretty underwhelming? I feel like having similar combat characteristics to standard foot hero’s in army’s like Gitz is incongruous with basic fantasy lore. I’d happily pay more points for vampire characters that provide some buffs and also have decent combat potential. 5 wounds and minimal/ no healing and underwhelming attack profiles doesn’t feel very vampire-esque. I guess Cado breaks that mould a bit, but doesn’t provide any buffs and also being named restricts his uses.

I agree. I’m generally a bit too lazy/ slow painter to field hordes (hence having a lot of grey nighthaunt), but I feel like a few viable deathrattle builds are sorely lacking from SBGL. They have always been a death staple from early fantasy battles, vampire counts and LON, and allow for a very different play style and aesthetic approach to the current lists. There are also plenty of good models to support them (although I’m still praying for new GG), but they need a subfaction and hero’s with decent warscrolls to function properly. Hopefully that’ll be updated whenever we get another battletome.

It’s like a basic reflex for me now! I genuinely can’t understand how people paint without licking the brush?? 😅

(With the exception of nighthaunt and expert conquerors maybe)

Nice, that gives him a bit of extra value. I’d love to see the rise of infantry and a move away from the shooting dominated meta with the next GHB. It would allow units like grave guard to shine, and death in general would benefit a lot from being able to make use of their slow but effective infantry. I feel that this GHB hasn’t been particularly kind to death players.

I don’t think they’ll be squeezing out a unit of 5 blood knights in any of my lists any time soon though unfortunately 🥲

Nice run down. Some of that had crossed my mind when I first looked over the warscroll, which is what made think they might have some play initially. The easy to access 2+ save, using a free command and shield wall is nice, especially when you can bring them back on a 4+ at the end of each combat! I also really like the 2 mortals on a 6 rule and would love to see that brought in as standard across SBGL hero’s. It feels very ‘Death’ thematically, and would make hero’s feel more fighty as well as unique. I hadn’t really considered their play in the other sub factions as I mostly just play kastelai, but that’s another good point, and makes the unit feel a bit more versatile. As you say it’s also more fun when the warscrolls interact with the rest of your army/ sub-factions, and makes them feel a slightly more integrated as opposed to tacked on out of obligation. Their slow speed and lack of summonable key word however, will probably prevent them seeing as much play as they could otherwise.

I pretty much agree with all of the above… They look fantastic and I want to like them, but without them interacting with any other units, being able to provide good utility, or survivability, I don’t see them being much use on the table. Everything is ‘fine’ for the points but unless a unit (especially one that doesn’t interact with others) can tank, move, cast or hit really hard, then it’s not going to be doing much and the points could be spent on any number of other things that fill a role.

… if he supported grave guard or deathrattle in general then he’d be fantastic.

Vengorian lord is my current go to for an affordable(ish) non-named character to support blood knights and be given rousing commander. He is fast, fairly survivable and his ability’s are good. He doesn’t feel very thematically in keeping with that aspect of the army to me though. I love the new sons of velmorn models. I wish GW would make a unit of grave guard that look the same. I think the warscroll for the leader is quite good, but I’m not sure what purpose they’d serve in a list. I think I’d almost always spend the extra 60 points on 20 grave guard.