MothmanDraws

With box up now wonder if we will see balance patch this week, would make sense to make slaangor stronger than archaon just as they sell out

Having talked with a smaller store owner about their discounts, many try to not do 20% as apparently their margins from gw to customer are pretty tight with then making tiny profits of each box sold. Many smaller stores cant match the 20% discount always and often the 20% standard is only enforced by other stores "undercutting" to 20% as the biggest margine most stores can discount to without loosing money each box. If the companies are sure stock will sell out they wont discount as hard if they can.

There will be 25 previews, 12 will be aos, they are all just different shots of tyrion for lumineth

I would be interested to see what they could change slaangor to be, personally I think we could do with them having absurd natural rend and be our tin openers. Give them rend 3-4 and dexcessas attack build up ability but keep them fairly fragile. ATM they feel they are kitted for fighting large blocks of weaker troops but we have no issue dealing with them using Daemon locus to try to lock large units down, blissbarbs shoot well into low armour + twinsouls and chariots. Really I want them re tooled to be anti elite/heavy armour which we lack answers for outside of fishing for mortal wounds. Have them be inaccurate, lots of attacks, high damage high rend but no defence, rest of lesser mortals should be trying to bubble wrap them to let slaangor go nuts (also lore fitting with how they are supposed to be revered ).

None they are happy with points, we are pointed so high because we are pointed for 6th edition.

Casual play should work perfectly fine with just LOP, sigvald will slot in fine aswell. No daemons is tricky as the reason or stuff is either weaker or overpriced is to accommodate for its ability to generate daemon summons. If your casual group is fine with it I think offering slaanesh 20% more points in return it doesn't summon is fair comp in casual games (though I still think you would want 30% more). The only bad unit in force are the Slaangor the other options in there are your "must have" units for mortals. You wont need a ton of daemons but I think getting access to 30 daemonettes, 1 chariot, 5 seekers and maybe a keeper eventually is solid enough for daemons, the masque + contorted are also good For ppl picking up both or either sets id recommend these further purchases Sigvald or Glutos or Twins (usually they dictate what you want from your army) Sigvald slots into most armies fine as he is just a missile, either take him and send him off on his own or build into supporting him with a keeper 1 extra set of blissbarbs or 2nd unit of Exalted seekers 1 start collecting daemons (gets the ball rolling for some summons) My view atm for a rounded roster that can build multiple lists a nice core is 10 painbrigners/twinsouls 22 blissabarb archers 5-10 hellstriders 2 exalted cav 30 daemonettes Though all of this is based on if the winter balance sheet doesnt change anything, though if it does im expecting the units in the battleforce will only go up in value

well I have good news and bad news, the warscrolls do look weak, they are our most efficient unit and probably our best all rounder units. HoS unfortunatly has alot of un-flashy units thats gimicks are "hit slightly harder than you would expect" (painbringers) or "slightly more tanky thany ou expect" (hellstriders + exalted seeker cav) but never enough to be obviously outstanding like say sentinels for lumineth, or varanguard in std. Your units outside of sigvald/glutos/twins are pretty straightforwards in being fast + do extra stuff on 6s, usually mortals or more hits. Hellstriders are our cheapest battle line option being 10 wounds for 135 and whips making them a little tougher to shift, usually you want them to just gum up the opponent, being tankier they can also spare a few hits to take depravity and not instantly die or become inefficient at their role. S+P and this are a very good start actually, the chariot is solid, especially if kit builds exalted, lord of pain is good and makes the 2 elite units of the battleforce battleline, 10 daemonettes are good but you will probably wanna upgrade to have 30 of them around. With what you have id magnetise the painbringers so they can swap between twinsouls or painbringers, run force as Leaders lord of pain(general) shardspeaker bladebringer exalted chariot Battleline 11xblissbarbs 10xtwinsouls/painbringers 5 hellscourge hellstriders 5 hellscourge hellstriders with a small daemonette unit to summon, brings you pretty close to 1500 points, with main focus being trying to get twinsouls fully buffed up and do damage and yolo in the chariot. This army also works nice as core to build off as you have alot of battle line options to build into either blissbarb heavy, myrmidesh blocks, cav army.

IIRC one of the bits of lore for slaangor is what happens after conquest, they struggle with their beastmen desire to destroy and their slaanesh love of trinkets and the trappings of society. So after raiding a city they kind of have mini existential crisis before being distracted by the next raiding target. I think the slaanesh warbands lore leaves a good amount of room for custom building lore, but would be nice to hear if there are more permanent settlements considering that slaanesh tends to be more comfortable supporting construction than the others. My armies personal lore is that they were turned away at the door to slaanesh's realm where the guards demand tribute, every time they return with greater trophy only to find the toll for the gate rises forever. Yet the warlords hubris and pride mean he will never stop acquiring the spoils needed for entry, Each time they leave the core of the army is whittled down till now only most dedicated can continue their eternal pilgrimage. The army has little daemon backing, with only a few lesser daemons who occasionally arrive more to laugh at their sisyphean task then actually help. Only a single keeper of secrets follows them around silently taking notes for some comedic opera its writing based on the warlord, the lesser ranks of the blissbarbs in army are often "elevated" by infernal enrapturists to compose their more sorrowful arias. Overall they are kind of a ****** army but the rest of hedonite army finds them funny to watch from the tops of the gates as they are turned away yet again, its gone on so long none of the guards even know why they were turned away in first place, and some other armies often send them fresh recruits and supplies (mockingly labelling them as "our patronage to your art") to make sure the joke never truly ends.

My view on that as i also collect gitz another weak book is in my view khorne and gitz play like they should. They are weak but are thematic and sell the idea of arny, they are just weak. Hence people are not as mad, Slaanesh i still argue doesnt play like slaanesh themes, it has speed sure (though its not the fastest, teleports make others feel more maneuverable and we have no move shenanigans like wind temple) and it has "torture not kill" but only on its summoning, its only good at giving pain not taking it, all the S and none of the M. But nothing about it really screams perfection, artistry or other aspects, its just "run fast and tickle them until you become a swarm army"

I have seen lists do well with them, however because our battle line is so expensive most lists usually pick 1 troop type and lean into it, like lop and 3 min units of painbringers or 1 brick of twinsouls. They feel like they want to be there to roadbump ppl getting to your blissbarbs but good luck affording enough of them + 2 units of blissbarb for them to actually stop anything. Painbringers tend to perform better than expected, though they are built as half hammer half anvil so are ok at both but dont do either amazingly. Twinsouls are same as possessed for 40k, they can do amazing into certain lists and when fully buffed but good luck keeping shardspeaker with them and praying her stuff goes off. Personaly id rather a. Painbringers were cheap enough to work better as defensive units, or their damage and survivability went up so they are actually an expensive but scary wall. Twinsouls just need to be cheaper and for shardspeaker to be more reliable

nah thats not true, lumineth wind temple (around jan 2021) came only 1-2 months prior to slaanesh(february) and Gravelords are newer coming out in May. Unless you think those also undersold. 3 of the 4 armies for battleboxes are sub 1 year since coming out and bonereapers are november last year so only barely over 1 year editing Slaanesh will always be the least popular chaos god due to many reasons 1. its historically had the least models so less chances to catch someone and less people have fond memories of them compared to say nurgle + khorne in fantasy 2. its a very niche aesthetic, not as many like running the pink and purple army, and is also an army that is very hard to paint 4. Its intended playstyle of glass canon+ speed is likely not as popular as "monster smash" that other gods do, its also a finesse army which would also put off new players. I do think poor rules didnt help the army but slaanesh will always be the lesser of the 4 in terms of sales. Overally my view on what likely happened with codex, a writer who doesnt care much for faction was given it, army was split due to some design thing or covid or whatever and the 2nd book came with brief of "we need this out fast, also tone it down". So what we got was warscrolls that feel very quickly done attatched to the previous great summoning engine (that they improved by changing it from hero focus to the more thematic "wounding not killing"). The issues with book was they never played into that summoning engine and building an army that wanted to play with its food. They made an interesting summoning engine and strapped it to a by the numbers "kill the opponent" warscroll roster. All this meant was the army became a nightmare to balance the points for a straightforward army that has a really janky summoning system built on, technically the points are correct for slaanesh if they assume perfect play and perfect rolls. Slaanesh if things go perfectly for it could get like an extra 1-2k points over a 6 turn game, but thats not what happens in practice, we are pointed assuming we get a huge snowball effect but are too weak to get it going.

Made my call in slaanesh thread, expecting a 10% decrease in hedonites points but 3x increase in our summoning costs making us somehow weaker. Would be funny if it also just gave slaangor 1 more bravery. Memeing aside i do see a world where all we get is slaangor rewrite and nothing else

I will use my ability to see future, faq is just a single line "revert to codex points, slangore +1 bravery while in combat"

I dont expect faq to do much outside of points, if i could have minor warscroll tweaks with big impacts id ask for Blissbarb archers + blissbarb seekers to get move after shooting as i think this is more effevtive at keeping them safe and plays to skirmisher/fragile playstyle Myrmidesh and twinsouls just need to be cheaper, maybe inate battle line might help as they are expensive already +lop tax. I still like idea of gving painbringers a formation like shining company that makes them super tanky. Or keep myrmidesh expensive and have a "on 6s they get sigvalds ignore saves", piercing damage should be our forte, leave explosive attacks to khorne. Slaangor and shalaxi need rewrite. As do some of the relics and spells, too many are just mortal wounds. I would be happy to see summoning gutted and focus of faction being "fast, teases you with archers staying barely out of reach for 2 turns then winning with single perfect strike" I will be picking up that battleforce though hopefullt my dream army of 10 painbringers 2 units of blissbarb sigvald and mixed cav ends up working out with the faq. Edit- Actually my theory, slaanesh ends up nerfed in faq, they remove our summoning and only give a 5% point decrease on all units, give slaangor a full rewrite but mess up keywords so they cant be fielded

I think some of the initial setbacks have been offset by belakor alone honestly. Had he not dropped I think slaanesh would be in worse spot. We are pretty weak vs anything big so just turning them off gives us time to get stuff done. He alone is turning some matches from near auto lose to "maybe salvageable". Especially as our best tactic atm seems to be "belakor turns off big bad and hopefully synessa spell turns off other threat", giving us 2 turns to fight with 2000pts vs 1000-1250 point armies after their big pieces are not working (amusingly turning off 400+ point monsters is probably just offsetting our inflated army costs so its more we are fighting vs even force). While those games are fairly small I honestly think they are accurate as to some extent our entire game plan in some matches is that belakor rolls a 3+ and that synessa can stay out of unbind range+ make a cast. As for survey I honestly still think the answers are the same, most units are still overcosted, sure some have solid value now but to some extent that value came now due to removing the alternative 90pt warrior blocks for our troops. Myrmidesh and twinsouls do amazing work but are still too costly.

I think for slaangor, give them a decent statline that can take hits but initially poor output, make them like dexcessa 1-2 attacks each with low damage as they enter the battle in a stupor, then once they either take damage or deal damage they ramp up fast. This will make them an interesting target for opponent of not actually wanting to hit them or if they want to they have to dedicate to wiping them out. Mv 8" 3 wounds 5+ 6+ claws 2 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1 gilded weapon 2 attacks 4+/3+/-2/2 -The unit has a 6+ FNP slaughter at any cost -After this model has fought for the first time or has received wounds, at the start of each battle round, add 1 to the Attacks characteristics of this model’s weapons for the rest of the battle. This effect is cumulative. In addition the unit gains +2 bravery. Obsessive violence -This unit may not make the retreat charge reaction, At the end of the combat phase roll a dice for each model in the unit, for each 4+ that enemy unit suffers a mortal wound, if the unit contains 6 models that mortal wound is caused on a 3+. In addition this unit may run and charge. Let them be battleline with glutos edit Overall I would actually like our gimick to be detatched from summoning, I really like the dread pageants gimick in direchasm where the units super charge after taking damage or dealing it.

My issue is less with the powerlevel and more with just how miserable listbuilding feels in hedonites, Feels hard to make anything feel thematic or cool looking, always run into feeling of "if I just had 200 more points". I would probably be happier if we just had one or two cheaper options, I am still holding hope for a infantry slickblade mortal unit at around 100-115 pts for a battle line. I feel put off by fully picking up the force because even outside of issues with core army in order to play to factions strength id need to haul around like an extra 2-3000 points of daemons just so I can take advantage of summoning. Amusingly I feel my gloomspite gitz army might actually require me to bring less models to a tournament to play optimally. For summoning pool id want 30-60 daemonettes 3 normal chariots 1 exalted chariot 1 keeper 3-6 fiends 10-15 seekers enrapturess, epitome For me armies issues have never been in "are they strong" I play CSM in 40k im used to playing weaker armies, my issues are with the army doesnt play fluffy, and outside of that to have it play optimally and lean into its toolbox requires a silly amount of models to bring. I can cut the summoning pool out but will feel bad when I get to those fights where I could take advantage of the mechanic but dont have it due to physical tansport issues.

ill just have them as myrmidesh heads but twinsouls weapons

Not many changes but they still managed to nerf slaanesh again Page 122 – Myrmidesh Painbringer, Painbringer Shields Change to: ‘Add 1 to save rolls for attacks made with melee weapons that target this unit.

I think we actually play decent into lumineth with lurid haze, though its mostly through sacking sigvald into the troops or kangaroos. If you can get sigvald + seekers in turn 1 charges into wardens and sentinels from haze you have good chance at breaking armies back. Sure you might be left fighting teclis but you can rob them of ground control and teclis can only hold 1 objective. Some windcharger meme lists will be tough to get due to them moving in your shooting phase, but run + shoot blissbarbs, or use lurid haze to pincer them so they have less room to run should work. This is ignoring shackles though which honestly shackles neuters 90% of slaanesh armies, only sigvald will reliably get around them. Not to say I think we are strong or lumineth isnt one of top dogs, I just think sigvald can go ham into them if hes rolling hot. I would also swap blissbarb playstyle into them, dont spit shots and go for actual damage, if you go first you can hopefully neuter 3-4 units with dexcessa+sigvald+seekers+blissbarbs. If you run into a 20 man sentinel or warden block sigvald should put major work into them.

Right my joke posts about "what if slaanesh 2.0 wasnt pointed for 3.0" came true, therefore lets make another joke prediction -The main FAQ update is just 3 notes on spells like one we saw -depravity summoning units all go up by 2-3 DP each -Sigvald locked to pretenders -Lurid haze TP cannot outflank Monsters -Twinsouls have range adjusted to 1"

I think best tactic is to shoot him down a little, fire full round of blissbarbs into him, hit him with what debuffs synessa or a shardspeaker can hit it with then use sigvald to snipe out the last of the wounds. As much as we want to use blissbarbs for extra DP, they are very nice for knocking wounds off a target to ensure sigvald claims the kill. Do what you can to get target to around 8-10 wounds and sigvald should do enough to remove it. If set up right you can one turn him in lurid if you really value the alpha (will likely cost you sigvald in the trade)

Honestly for hedonites I think it can be fine to not be 1 drop, with our speed and lurid haze we can deploy hyper defensively turn 1 behind heavy cover (our army is small enough lol) and keep valuable assets in lurid haze outflank. use CP to keep armour saves up on mymidesh and try stay far enough back to avoid most t1 charges. Then our turn 1 pick the "advance 3 units" for objective and just run archers + shardpeaker + dexcessa (all can run for free basically) Our plan barely changes depending on turn, just if you know you wont get a chance at getting first turn just deploy units more safely -Push for heavy alpha strike with sigvald, have him be in a vanguarg detatch for the re roll charge -dexcessa might be able to make a t1 charge aswell -rest of army just spreads out to get objectives and sprinkle damage, maybe some of your cav either makes a t1 charge, steals an objective or sets up as t2 threat I think the key units for hedonites to master will be -sigvald- Knowing how to atleast trade him for 120% of his points in value if not more, either sacking him into a big threat for him to cripple, or into a tanky expensive unit of mortek, fyreslayers or huge block of wardens/sentinels. Also how to use him later into the game, t2 he should either heal if hes stuck in combat to tank longer, or if he kills his target pop finest hour for a 2nd high value turn. -dexcessa- A little more easy to use than sigvald, mostly knowing if you want to use her to turn pressure up with 2 turn 1 charges, or have her chill to be a t2 threat once they deal with sigvald -shardspeaker- The spells you take on her kit her out very differently, she can either be a great if unreliable debuffer, or just chucking some endless spells. Knowing where to throw reflection eternal and twisted mirror will be important. Interesting 2nd spells on her are battle rapture if going wide on blissbarbs, dark delusions for more debuffs, or the mist spell if you are in heavier shooting meta might have alot of value. I could even see using metamorphisis on sigvald. Her main issue is she is very short range. -Masque- 135 points to shut off shooting units, with 4+ ward she is more tanky vs sentinels and other mw spam than expected, can double heal if needed. If you can get her to tag any shooting unit or other MSU unit she will earn her points back -endless spells- you can do some jank stuff if you plan to hide army for t1, like fire an endless spell through whole force for like 8dp t1 Most lists are going to revolve around 3 styles for their core with some hybrids. 3x5 hellstriders (fast and cheap, probably the most competetive and leans more into pushing the t1 alpha strike) Myrmidesh+twinsouls (tanky but expensive, probably most consistant build output and durability wise) Blissbarb spam (good range, solid vs slower armies, needs morale boosts. Very very good if dexcessa and sigvald do enough damage t1 to lock opponent on their side of board for 2 turns so you can summon daemonette screens)

I know its memeing but I actually think hedonites are a semi counter to alot of lumineth builds, sigvald + masque in lurid haze can shut down a suprising amount of their stuff, masque tags sentinels. Lumineth struggle for bodies so just sacking sigvald into blocks of wardens and masque to tie up sentinels from shooting will often just leave teclis or a few spare units and by that point you can just yeet summoned keepers at him. Though soulsnare shackles might make match up more even. sigvald in general and the masque are probably two of the best hedonite units that play counter to what looks to be meta, new heroic actions and command abilities also make them pretty good. Just a shame they will be needing to hard carry the faction.

I wouldn't be surprised if some tournaments went "hedonites can use old points" if we get nothing in FAQ it would mean hedonites are reallly bad for 6 months.