oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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Posts posted by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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17 hours ago, Ghark said:
Hi guys!
Just a quick question, how are you dealing with archers-heavy lumineth lists?
I've had two games against them, and each time I just can't approach them (this and the double turn which put the last nail in my coffin).
First list I tried was Kastelai with Vordrai, a VLoZD, 3*5 BK and 20 grave guards, the heavy hitters ran towards the lumineth block (2*10 archers, Teclis, some spearmen and a catalar) but got murdered.
Second list I tried was Avengorii with Lauka Vai, Radukar the beast, VLoZD, 5 BK,1 terror and 1 zombie dragon, with all "run and charge" abilities I could get, but it still ended up as target practising.
Is it even a good idea to try removing them from the table? Or shall I just run lists with many bodies and just play the objectives will I'm being shot at?
I'm having a ton of trouble playing a shooting heavy Seraphon - Thunder Lizards monster list, just getting slaughtered before I can even get to any of their units. I suspect the play experience is similar to Lumineth -- a crazy hero phase then a ton of shooting -- although I haven't actually played a Lumineth list yet. The best ideas I've had so far have involved getting units to move across the board quick and act as screens, which is not easy for Soulblight. I think gravesites and movement shenanigans are key.
I tried putting my GG in a gravesite and waiting until one of the big shooty lizards was nearby, then popped up but my GG got shot off the board after failing a 9" charge, re-rolling the charge via Forward to Victory, then failing again. Relying on 9" charge after popping out of a gravesite is a long shot...
I've had some luck just throwing my VLoZD w/ Amethystine Pinions 20" across the board right into the shootiest units which is somewhat successful, but it puts the VLoZD at high risk for an early death.
To deal with the risk of losing my key units like VLoZD or Blood Knights early, I'm actually running a unit of Black Knights in an attempt to move 12" then get the auto 6" charge (from their hornblower ability) into a shooting unit to act as a cheap screen, die, then come back at half strength the next turn to ideally do it again. If I ran Vyrkos I'd probably do a similar thing with Dire Wolves, but I'm running Legion of Blood so Black Knights fill a Battleline slot which is great.
Not really useful unless you are running Neferata, but one of the nice things is Nef casting Dark Mist -- ignore rend when making saves -- on a Wight King w/ Steed general that has aura of dark majesty -- subtracting one to hit but melee only -- on a 3+ save makes him tank pretty well if he can make it across the table and into a shooting unit, keeping them tied up for awhile. I might switch to trying Aristocracy of Blood to get some re-rolls for charging but its wholly within only 12", which means I'd have to keep my battleline (GG,Skellies,Black Knights) and/or Blood Knights close.
I'm even running a Prismatic Palisade which is helpful if only to annoy the opponent into having to move around it to shoot.
The above is working... sort of... I feel like my strategy against shooting heavy lists is getting better but I'm sure others here have better ideas than I do. The problem with the above is it sorta takes my whole army to tie up shooting units, so I don't have anything left to actually do damage, cap objectives, etc. -
On 9/8/2021 at 8:25 AM, amysrevenge said:
I strictly enforce a "no unpainted models on the table" rule. For myself.
I have no requirements for my opponent, other than "please at least have mostly-assembled models on the vast majority of your bases".
I am happy with limited-scope events (such as a league or a tournament) enforcing whatever painting standard they wish.
I'm unhappy with a public (or public-ish) play area enforcing the same. Happily, I've never encountered this in the real world.
This is basically the perfect philosophy.
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On 8/8/2021 at 9:11 PM, vlad3theimpaler said:
Battlescribe currently is not categorizing zombies as battleline. I assume that it's because they're technically conditional, but the condition is the army being a Soulblight Gravelords army, which is obviously the army I'm selecting to build a list. Is there a way to get battlescribe to recognize them properly? It just bugs me to have the little error icon showing up when building my list.
Was fixed recently, so likely update your data in the next few days (fix might already be live too) and you'll get the fixed version.
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11 hours ago, Eldarain said:
Saw someone mention adding Lauchon (Endless Spell boatman) and have a Chaos Lord with Arcane Tome teleporting around to keep Archaon fighting twice.
This sounds... interesting. Link? How would this work exactly?
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10 hours ago, Wordy9th said:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365) in Battle Regiment
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Command Entourage
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Necromancer (125) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130) in Command Entourage
- General
- Command Trait: Soul-crushing Contempt
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Black Knights (120) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grave Guard (140)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Battle Regiment
Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113I'm going for a legion of blood vibe trying to get as much use out of skeletal units as possible (I loved the idea of the black knights and wight king bravery bombing on the side while filling out the battle line) with a strong vampiric core of Neffy and her pet dragon lord and some blood knights.
I've got a Coven throne, Mannfred and Belladonna spare, the latter two might make it a little more competitive but I'm looking for that perfect mix of using units I like (skeletons and big dragon) while still having it competitive. Also wondering what weapons to take on the grave guard, though I'm leaning towards great weapons, Any thoughts?
I'm planning on running an incredibly similar list as you, and am pretty excited about it but I'm weeks/months away from actually being able to try it out. List in spoiler tag, and since our lists are so similar, I'll put basically my reasoning for this list below:
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
Leaders
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Soul-crushing Contempt
- Artefact: Oubliette Arcana
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Battleline
10 x Black Knights (240)
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
Some key notes. First I think in your list you could run "Warlord" instead of "Command Entourage" to benefit from both "Magnificent" and "Strategists". Next, you have three artefacts I think, and I'm not sure thats "legal". Assuming that's just a mistake/typo, I'm wondering what your plan is with Arcane Tome? Is it really for those extra casts? I've sorta thought about this but I think the utility from the other artefacts is a bit more reliable. For my list, I decided to give my first artefact to the Wight King on Steed, and went with the Oubliette Arcana. I have a feeling that since I'll likely be moving the Wight King around a lot, having him be able to potentially negate a nearby spell could be useful. Second Artefact is pretty simple, give soulbound garments to the VLoZD because I want to keep him around as long as possible for obvious reasons.
For spell lores, the best spells seem to be on the warscrolls, so I'm really just planning on casting those and am not thinking about the lore spells much. I haven't decided what to give Neferata and it probably won't matter much anyway, I'm going to use her warscroll spell and then probably just Mystic Shield or something anyway. Although it might be fun to give her a deathmage lore spell, in addition to Decrepify on my Necromancer. Since I'm definitely going to try the mini-bravery bomb with Black Knights + Wight King w/ Steed (and took Soul Crushing Contempt on him, as he's my general for obvious Grave Guard Battleline), maybe somebody in my list should have Spirit Gale for an opportunistic zap, but it seems pretty situational and its probably just better to take Amethystine Pinions.
For the Grave Guard battleline, I'm going with the 2H weapons because I want those guys to hit as hard as possible. My death rattle skellies are the tarpit. Obviously, Black Knights are mostly a battleline tax but I think they serve a few uses: the bravery bomb, ramming into things very early on in the game, and likely dying early so they make a good endless legions candidate.
Obviously Blood Knights seem to be the favored hammer here, but I'm interested in swapping them out for a few games with the Crimson Court instead. I'd like to try using the Crimson Court because Duvalle has a great spell (Fiendish Lure) that I think would be great for basically setting a target for the Grave Guard or Black Knights, he gets to take a spell lore (so could put something like Spirit Gale on him), and I think the court would make a great screen/protector unit for my Necromancer who I have a feeling is going to be hard to keep alive and easy pickings for my enemies! And they are only 5 more points than Blood Knights so its an easy swap.
Last, what I'm most bummed about is I can't fit the Horrorghast in, I just need 5 (or 10 with Crimson Court) less points to fit it in my list, so as of right now I'm just taking the gravetide instead. Heres to hoping Black Knights or something get a points reduction so I can fit it in!
Since you mentioned the Coven Throne, one other list I'm thinking about is just getting rid of the Wight King and Grave Guard, putting Aura of Dark Majesty and Soulbound Garments on the VLoZD and making him my general, running an all deathrattle skeleton battleline, and fitting in the Coven Throne. Can post that list if you're interested but its pretty different than the above! -
5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I think it's worth mentioning that after the change to coherency Black Knights deal substantially more damage than Dire Wolves, assuming only 5 or 6 wolves get into combat at any given time. This is how 6 wolves vs. 5 Black Knights vs. 10 Blood Knights breaks down:
Save Dire Wolves Black Knights Blood Knights 2+ 0.96 2.68 5.37 3+ 1.93 3.69 8.36 4+ 2.89 4.69 11.36 5+ 3.85 5.7 14.35 6+ 4.81 6.71 17.35 - 5.78 7.72 17.97 I am currently thinking about whether or not 5 Black Knights have a role as screen clearers. While people often like to claim that Blood Knights can "jump over screens" with Riders of Ruin, that is not strictly speaking true. What they get to do is jump out of tarpits if your opponent counter-charges you. So there could still be value in bringing a cheaper unit of Black Knights in order to wipe out small chaff screens.
I think the key component of making this work, though, would be that Black Knights need to be able to do this job as a unit of 5 without additional support from any heroes. I think that if they can get there with only self-buffs, they have an advantage over Dire Wolves which cannot get any bonuses to hit and wound (because they get these bonuses on their warscroll). I say if this is supposed to work at all, a unit of 5 has to be able to do it, because if you are bringing 10 Black Knights, you could just bring another 5 Blood Knights instead for cheaper.
Side note: Black Knights do get 2" reach, so you could conceivably run them in 10s, but 10 Black Knights still deal worse damage than 5 Blood Knights, so why? Also, 2x5 would probably be preferable anyway for double impact hits.
Anyway, the damage just does not seem to be there. Here are the numbers for 5 Black Knights with All-Out Attack, and also with a Wight King tagging along:
Save Black Knights Black Knights with Wight King 2+ 3.02 5.64 3+ 4.37 7.5 4+ 5.72 9.36 5+ 7.07 11.22 6+ 8.43 13.08 - 9.78 14.5 It looks like Black Knights can just barely wipe a save '-' screen on the charge when buffed with All-Out Attack, which honestly is not very impressive. If you happen to have a Wight King in your list already, things look a little better and you can reliably remove save 5+, 10 wound screens. Which, you know, is something. However, it pretty much means that Black Knights don't have much of a role as a support unit in a Blood Knight list, because what Blood Knight list takes a Wight King along?
So yeah: Black Knights are still not very good, even with new coherency.
This is super interesting, thanks for the write-up/research!
I'm working on a 2k Legion of Blood list which the main focus is to run both Neferata and VLoZD, so the key here is a lot of my points for the army are already spent on just two models! One thing I'm considering is running a Wight King w/ Steed general to get a unit of 20 2h graveguard as battle-line, a unit of 20 skellies as second battleline, and I'm considering taking a unit of black knights to check-off the last battle-line requirement. Fully realize black knights are not very good, been reading this forum post and tons of others on the topic, but given your research, it seems like in the context of my list running 5 or even 10 black knights might be worth it. I realize Blood Knights are better, but I still need to fulfill battleline, and I think I can fit in a unit of 5 BKs in addition to some Black Knights anyway.
Thinking of an example, instead of taking more graveguard or skellies as battleline, a unit of 10 black knights paired with a the wight king w/ steed general -- taking the soul-crushing contempt command trait -- makes a potentially decent chaff / screen clearer from both a fair amount of mobile damage and bravery shenanigans. Could drop this to 5 black knights but they do have 2" range, so that along with them being a bigger unit to resurrect, could be at least serviceable instead of them being a total tax on the list. And this gives the black knights & wight king a bit of a functional purpose, and lets Nef and VLoZD focus on other things and not dealing with chaff/screens.
Seems like my idea could be viable. Put an example of this list in the spoiler tag below, but I'm still working on fine tuning so not really "done" yet, probably needs an endless spell, some artifact tweaking, sorting out the core battalions so I can take two artifacts and get a unifed deployment, etc.
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
Leaders
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Soul-crushing Contempt
- Artefact: Oubliette Arcana
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Battleline
10 x Black Knights (240)
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
Nagash in Soulblight Gravelords
in Death
Posted · Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
Hoping to resurrect 😆🧛♂️ this thread to discuss Nagash in Soulblight. @Neil Arthur Hotep, your original post has been super helpful figuring this all out. I've been thinking about a Soulblight Gravelords w/ Nagash list, and looking for some advice as a new-to-Nagash player. I'm thinking about Legion of Blood which I fully realize might not be the best sub-faction choice, but anyway...
Here's my thinking. I want to run Nef which is maybe overkill, but her CA and Spell are spectacular, gives me a monster, and a pretty darn good melee threat on a 16" move. Her special ability that can slay a Hero is pretty good although obviously pretty rare to pull-off. Then I want to run a Wight King w/ Steed as General to get Grave Guard as battle line, and LoB command trait and artefact makes him pretty tough and hard to kill. He'd be on a 2+ base save with -1 to hit in melee. Could also run the oubliette or the ring of dominion but just seems better to make him tough.
However, now I barely have any points for battle line. The 20 man Grave Guard seems obvious, but I guess I could split them across two units to meet battle line requirements and still have some points left over for other stuff. The Black Knights are serving a simple purpose, fill a battle line slot as a highly mobile screen that can die and come back and screen again, thats it. It is a lot to pay for a simple mobile screen, so dropping these for maybe another unit of Deathrattle might give me more room for an endless spell or something.
So I have 50 points left over for an endless spell. Cogs are an option, Palisade is an option to protect from shooting, or maybe the Gravetide for another damage oriented spell. If I change up my battleline, I could try to fit in a spell portal instead, but I think the spell portal was nerfed lately and maybe not a required take anymore.
Last, thinking Hunters of the Heartlands for my battle line is a good idea to make them a bit more smash proof, but could argue to drop that and just run this as a single drop battle regiment, to get the first turn to buff up, move my Black Knight screen into position, and start blasting. I'd probably start with at least the Deathrattle and/or Grave Guard in a grave site to bring them onto the battlefield later where they can be useful. The 4" move trying to creep them forward from a deployment zone, usually just ends up with them being blasted by a spell or shooting before they can do anything useful.
Thoughts? I've thought about going Kastelai, dropping Nef, and just going for Blood Knights but... I can't find any! (I do have 5 already, but fitting them into this list is basically impossible unless I want to drop the Grave Guard/Wight King combo and I'd rather have the bodies).