oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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Posts posted by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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Yep, I really want to get to the Tarantulos Brood and terrain from the new box set but... oh man so many things to paint, so little time.
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As an owner of a bunch of Underworlds warbands, the new Tome of Champions is pretty exciting. Been trying to come up with lists that thematically "finish" each Underworld warband (or at least the ones I own), basically it seems like those warbands are coming up between 500-700 points, so usually get a few hundred points to spare. Seeing if I can make an all Vampires warband work, or getting a few BoC models to get Gnashraks warband in, has been fun.
I really like my Khagra's Ravagers warband:
Khagra the Usurper - 200 (Leader) Chaos Lord - 240 (Hero) Dour Cragan - 140 Razek Godblessed - 145 Zarshia Bittersoul - 140 Chaos Marauder w/ Barbarian Flail - 55 Chaos Marauder w/ Barbarian Flail - 55 Total: 975 PtsIt's low on bodies but can't wait to play it more. The Chaos Lord is an absolute beast, the rest of the gang can't really be shifted either, Zarshia is useful, and the Marauders are great too for 55 pts!
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Agree with everything here, and I'd add that its sorta the ultimate setup for a NPE "gotcha" moment. New(ish) player comes to the first tourney/matched play game and isn't aware of this rules update or doesn't have the of priority targets committed to memory, they setup their freshly painted unit -- that happens to be on the priority list -- and their opponent who is very aware of these rules goes after it. Opponent manages to kill the priority target early in the game, and then says "I get an extra VP (or two, if it was reinforced or a Mega) because I killed your priority target" and the new player is like... "what have I done to deserve this!?".
I for one am not good at memorizing things like this, and can imagine being very unhappy if you get "gotcha'ed" in a competitive play setting. If this new priority target rule is here to stay forever, its yet another thing all players are expected to be updated on by... waiting every few months and downloading the latest PDF?-
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Somehow missed this thread, as a big LoB fan I've had a great time with the new WD stuff, it certainly gives LoB an edge.
This is the list I ran at a big tournament:
Neferata and The Blood Cartel Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords - Lineage: Legion of Blood - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)* - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)** - General - Deathlance - Command Trait: Premeditated Violence - Artefact: Soulbound Garments - Expertise: Martial - Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Vampire Lord (140)* - Expertise: Arcane - Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions Battleline 5 x Black Knights (100)** 5 x Black Knights (100)** 10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)** Units 5 x Blood Knights (195)* 5 x Blood Knights (195)* 20 x Grave Guard (280)* - Great Wight Blades - Reinforced x 1 Endless Spells & Invocations Suffocating Gravetide (50) Chronomantic Cogs (45) Core Battalions *Battle Regiment **Battle Regiment Total: 1990 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 1 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 111 Drops: 2
The list certainly has problems but the new WD updates and drop in black knight costs gave it a competitive edge. I only went 1-4 at the tournament but had I had a bit better luck I think I could have gone 3-2. This list was able to win against a very tough HotEc Archaon + Varanguard list, but I got brutalized by a Thunderlizards shooting list and lost a tough match against the only other Legion of Blood player in the whole tournament. Then I had a very close game against Ossiarch Bonereapers but rolled super badly in some key situations. Even with the Arcane trait I barely got any spells of with Arkhan running around, and then my VLoZD whiffed on killing ~6 Mortek Guard I needed for taking an objective and getting broken ranks, so I blame this loss on luck. Finally lost against a LotFP list with a GUO who had the ridiculous Fourfold Blade + Nurgling thing and did 18 MWs against my VLoZD (opponent didn't explain the crazy rules interaction until too late) which basically cost me the game.
The strengths here are obviously Neferata, Blood Knights, and super fast Black Knight chaff that I use to soak up unleash hell to get my knights and GG in safely. The decrease in points allowed me to fit in the Chronomantic Cogs, which combined with the Vamp Lord on foot casting bonus, I'm able to more reliably bring GG out of the grave and into combat right away (assuming a re-roll charge via CP, its a likely chance to get an 8+ to make a GG charge).
The weakness is obvious, bodies and dealing with heavy shooting. Trying to play a more "elite" Soulblight list in anything but Kastelei is really tough. Successful Soulblight lists usually have lots of bodies for taking objectives, whereas this list needs to kill things fast to hold objectives. The VLoZD is very swingy so theres a lot of risk in this list, but I've had success with this list outside the big tourney, and some more practice I think I'll be able to win more often. My opponent who happened to also be a LoB player ran a Vengorian Lord with Soulbound Garments on it, which was just an awesome idea I hadn't considered, so I might try swapping out the VLoZD for a Vengorian Lord at some point and seeing if I can get more bodies into the list too.
Anyway, LoB is certainly worth looking at now, although Vyrkos still seems to be the more flexible subfaction for competitive play.-
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5 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:
The below is how much damage an All out Attack and Finest Hour Gatebreaker does to a Monster, including the chucked rock, but not including the Mortals on the charge (D3). They get to reroll 1s on the stomps and grip and might have +1 to hit if they take the Hero/Monster loathing.
So if it charges you, you need +2 to possibly survive and +3 to probably survive.
Thanks, my VT idea might work better with a VLoZD in Legion of Blood with Arcane battle trait and Soulbound Garments then.
Admittedly I've really struggled against Mega Gargants before so I'm definitely over correcting a bit but I know I'll see them again at an upcoming tournament.
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4 hours ago, Btimmy said:
The problem with Vile transference is that it happens in the hero phase. Meaning basically no matter what the big scary monster gets a round of combat with your VLoZD, which in this case is also your general. This is bad news. If you get charged by that gatebreaker you are basically just dead. If you charge that gatebreaker and don't kill it, you are also basically just dead. There is some play with nerfing the dmg output of those units before charging in, but that requires the lore of the death mages to do. I like vile transference a lot in a giant dominated meta, but i haven't been able to really figure out a safe way to use it at all. I prefer to frontload all my dmg into the VLoZD and have him act as a sort of solo flanker while i tie up the big boys with chaff and then get the grave guard into position to deal with them.
That said, that is just my preference, let me know if you find a way to get VT to really work for you!
You've just outlined in detail all the fears I've had about my idea for experiments with VT. 🤣🤦♂️
Are Gatebreakers really that much more killy? I've faced many gargants but maybe I've lucked out and its usually Kraken Eaters and Warstompas, and didnt seem like they'd be able to take down an AoD'ed VLoZD.
Regardless, seems like the safer bet might just be to go all in on damage output with Sangsyron and Flaming Weapon, it's certainly a solid load out.
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Wanted to address a specific part of your list/comments:
On 1/4/2022 at 10:30 PM, Btimmy said:The Big vamp lord is a very mobile big dmg threat (dmg 5 lance on the charge with 3+1d3 attacks if flaming weapons goes off
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)**
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Necromancer (125)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
So I've been thinking about this VLoZD loadout a lot lately... and I might instead try arcane tome and vile transference. Don't get me wrong, Sangsyron and Flaming Weapon are awesome, and I also would make the VLoZD the general for either Pack Alpha or Hunters Snare, but I've been thinking about an alternative route.
The idea is the VLoZD is by far the unit most likely to be in combat for like... the entire game. That means close range. For most low wound models, an 3"/D3 arcane bolt can be effective, and for high wound models (Maw Krusha's, Mega Gargants, any hero monster really), Vile Transference seems like it could be pretty deadly (I think the sweet spot would be around 8+ wounds, VT is more effective), and with Locus of Shyish sorta a nuclear bomb scenario against of Mega Gargant. Of course, you could just take Vile Transference and still take Sangsyron, but I'm thinking of taking the Arcane Tome as well to cast Mystic Shield, Arcane Bolt, or VLoZDs warscroll spell (seems useful if only for the longish range) too. With Vyrkos re-rolls to cast, seems potentially more deadly against high wound models than the normal Flaming Weapon and Sangsyron combo, and against low wound models the VLoZD is probably doing enough damage anyway. Of course, this makes even more sense if you're taking Hunters Snare and parking the VLoZD on an objective the whole game (and therefore, less utility from charge bonuses).
Something to think about, I have a list in mind very similar to yours but with wolves and Radukar the Beast, but the VLoZD playing a similar role. -
Question for those here running cultist heavy lists, Idolators, etc.
Has anyone ever experimented with a big block of Scions of the Flame for flame pot tossing? The exploding 6s on the pot throwing makes it almost seems meme-list worthy to have a reinforced unit of them, maybe add in the shrine rerolls or Daemonic Power buff to fish for more 6s.
Math hammer-wise, the damage is there, but obviously the problem is the 8" range which means no mask of darkness yeeting them across the board to then shoot in the following phase. If the Scions could move a bit faster to get into shooting position then they seem pretty good, but the 6" move with the 8" flame pot range seems to be the main limitation.
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4 hours ago, Btimmy said:
The arcana would be good if it was a decent range, but unless you are putting it on a hero that wants to run towards them I am finding it hard to see how useful it really is personally.
Ya, I've put it on a mounted Wight King and had some success. Ring of Dominion is alright so I usually alternate between the two, no favorite yet. If RoD went off on a 4+ instead of a 5+, I think it would be a lot better.
Question that I'm not sure I've seen answered here. In the new AoS app, the most recent update makes it so the LoB battle trait is a choice for the entire army, not individual lords. I.e. according to AoS app, all VL and VLoZD share the same martial or arcane trait choice, and you can't for example make the VLoZD martial and a VL arcane.
My reading of the rule seems it's a per unit choice and not army wide, and also happens to be how the Battlescribe repo guys interpreted it. Thoughts on the correct intent of the rule?
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10 minutes ago, novakai said:
seem like guesswork and using community wishes as way make it more believable
Seems oddly specific to one grand alliance and not about other armies especially the other sinister 6 armies that need some toning down. Like if you had leak you would talk about other changes especially to the core rules
so probably fake like other TG post
Ya, I thought the same thing, and still sort of do... but I did lurk over to /TG/ and the post was specifically responding to a question about FAQ changes to the chaos factions.
Although why they wouldn't take the time to just outline the changes in the FAQ to everything... makes it seem pretty fake.
I just want Black Knights to not be garbage.-
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11 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Personally, I am not so hot on the Necromancer anymore. His warscroll spell is good, but his casting ability is really bad. Getting off a 6+ spell against an unbind with no casting bonus or reroll (which he does not get in Vyrkos since he's not a VAMPIRE), is almost exactly a coin flip. In a support role for Grave Guards, I personally don't like that him at all. He's too slow and his durability comes at the cost of Grave Guard bodyguards. He doesn't even give them +1 to wound in Vyrkos since, again, not a VAMPIRE.
In Vyrkos, I would rather bring the Vampire Lord. He's faster and flies (which is relevant if you want to start the Grave Guard in the grave), and his buff is more reliable. In Vyrkos, you can give him Pack Alpha, so he can spam his Crimson Feast command for free. 20 Great Weapon Grave Guard with +1 attack and +1 to wound already kill everything, they don't need to fight twice. Plus, you can currently use the Crimson Feast in the opponent's combat phase and keep stacking +1 attack buffs (although maybe not much longer, depending on what the FAQ brings).
Where I like the Necromancer is in support of a block of 30 Skeletons. Because there his spell does something you can't easily replicate otherwise, which is to let them heal twice per combat phase. I would also give the Necromancer an Arcane Tome in that situation, so that he can further boost the defensive potential of the Skeletons with Overwhelming Dread/Fading Vigor and maybe bait out some unbinds.
I'm also pretty skeptical on the Necromancer (as we've chatted about in the main Soulblight thread), particularly because if he can't get Vanhel's to go off, he's basically useless. Soulblight has so many other better casters, so really just need the Necromancer to cast Vanhel's or one of his debuffs (or both if you give him the Arcane Tome).
One thing I'm going to experiment with is running the Necromancer with an Unholy Lodestone Corpse Cart, big block of zombies, and a unit of Grave Guard. The Corpse Cart is there for the +1 to cast and giving the zombies a 6+ save, and the zombies are obviously to help keep the Necromancer alive and provide a big screen. Then I'd almost always put the Grave Guard in reserve and pop them out at a Grave Site within 18" of the Necromancer, and then in the next hero phase, cast Vanhel's on the GG.
That being said, the Vampire Lord is usually more reliable for buffing up Grave Guard. As I've probably said before, Vanhel's on GG is great but a lot of times GG end up fighting something that can hit back really hard, so after losing a bunch of models, their second attack can be kinda wimpy. The Vamp Lord's CA makes that first attack hit real hard, especially in Vyrkos. My issue with the Vampire Lord is he is an easy snipe and MW target, whereas the Necromancer can shrug wounds to his zombie buddies. So lately I've been trying to make a Necromancer work again. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid as there seems to be a ton of shooting in my local, but I go back and forth on the Necromancer or Vampire Lord topic all the time. Obviously I could just run both, but at 125 and 140 points, it almost always seems better to make one or the other work, and spend those points on more GG or other battleline.-
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1 hour ago, Howdyhedberg said:
So I guess I'm a soulblight army owner now since I bought the battlebox.
I'm planning on using all the contents + a necromancer (will use one of my cos wizards as a proxy). That will be 1000 points as of today.
Any suggestions from you on the best subfaction for this?
Probably Vyrkos. Welcome to the vampire club 🧛♂️.
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Looking for thoughts/feedback on a Nagash and Vyrkos Dynasty Deadwalkers list.
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords - Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970) Necromancer (125)* - General - Command Trait: Spoor Trackers - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify Gorslav the Gravekeeper (75)* Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)* - Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference 40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)* - Reinforced x 1 20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)* 10 x Dire Wolves (135)* 1 x Corpse Cart with Unholy Lodestone (80)* Umbral Spellportal (70) *Battle Regiment Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 1 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 123 Drops: 2
The basic idea is the Necromancer (along with Gorslav) hangs with the zombies and corpse cart, gives the zombies the 3" move in the hero phase from Spoor Tracker, then gets 2 spell casts from arcane tome, one of which will almost certainly be invigorating aura to heal zombies, and the other either a debuff, mystic shield etc. With the additional heal from Invocation of Nagash, hoping to keep the zombie pack(s) at full strength as long as possible. Corpse Cart gives the zombies a 6+ save and give the necromancer a bonus to cast, seems pretty good.
Belladamma does what she does -- Lycancurse shooting threats -- with a unit of wolves to support and harass. Nagash does what Nagash does, and is obviously the main threat and damage dealer. Gorslav is arguably not necessary but if a unit of zombies or the wolves go down, I'd like to be able to bring them back if the Endless Legions roll fails.
Seems pretty good to me but I haven't played much Vyrkos or used any Zombie mobs so looking for feedback or tweaks I can make. An alternative I've considered is dropping the unit of 20 zombies and spell portal for a second unit of Dire Wolves (and a cheaper endless spell, probably the gravetide), but I think the Spell Portal is a decent threat, and the 20x zombies unit gives the Necromancer/Gorslav a bit more protection since they'll have more bodies around them (as they'd be too slow to keep up with wolves).
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14 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:
He said it is because of their lore. I guess you could ask him where in the lore does it say that BoC have to be bad 😂
Watch GW use the same reasoning to again FAQ the Darkoath Warqueen/Chieftain so that they can no longer take a Mark of Chaos anymore. 😅
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26 minutes ago, novakai said:
So Sam Pearson on Twitter said it is intentional that they have no Cultist keyword.
I believe he a GW rule writers
Nice find, thanks for sharing.
Pretty ****** to be honest, but I'm assuming the intent is they didn't want these to be ran as battle-line. Seems like a pretty big oversight to give Darkoath Warqueen / Chieftain the ability to take a mark, but not the Darkoath Savager unit. If the intent was just to make it so Darkoath Savagers couldn't be battleline... seems like this could be handled in a StD FAQ, something like "Darkoath units can take a Chaos Mark" and/or adding the "DARKOATH" keyword to the Warqueen/Chieftain's command ability affects.-
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On 10/18/2021 at 2:20 AM, papary said:
Taking a stupid nagash llist to a tournament next month, not sure how I'll fare but here it is for any advice people have on it
Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers - Legion: Petrifex Elite - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line - Triumphs:
LEADERS Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)
Mortisan Soulmason (140) - General -
Command Trait: Mighty Archaeossian -
Artefact: Godbone Armour -
Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
UNITS
20 x Mortek Guard (280)* - Nadirite Blade and Shield - 2 x Soulcleaver Greatblades
10 x Mortek Guard (140)* - Nadirite Blade and Shield - 1 x Soulcleaver Greatblades
10 x Mortek Guard (140)* - Nadirite Blade and Shield - 1 x Soulcleaver Greatblades
BEHEMOTHS Gothizzar Harvester (215) - Weapon: Soulcrusher Bludgeons
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS Nightmare Predator (65)
CORE BATTALIONS *Hunters of the Heartlands
1950/2000
I've been thinking about a similar list. So the thing with the Soulmason is that his warscroll spell is sorta a duplicate of the benefit from Nagash's CA, right? So I guess you're just taking the Soulmason for the double cast? But then again, you already have 8 spells from Nagash, and he has the entire lore so... maybe the Soulmason isn't the right choice? Full disclosure, I love the Soulmason model so I thought about including him too, but now I'm re-thinking it.
I'm on the fence on the Gothizzar Harvester for my list, seems awesome and nice to have another monster, but I guess he's really there just to keep one of your Mortek blobs healed up, and I'd guess you're probably most concerned about your 20 man blob?
So I've been thinking about a Boneshaper instead, but I'm not sure he's worth it since you already get some healing from Nagash, so now I'm thinking about taking a hammer-ish unit like Morghasts or Stalkers (probably leaning Morghast Harbringers for the 3D6 charge and seems like they might be slightly tougher), and maybe reinforcing them.
Haven't looked at how the points fall but regardless, I'm struggling to figure out a Nagash OBR list I like!-
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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:
found out Bladeborn rules are free online https://ageofsigmar.com/games/bladeborn/
Are the Warcry rules/fighter cards online anywhere yet?
Also, any indication that we'll get Warcry rules for other Underworlds warbands? That would be... pretty awesome and fun, hopefully GW follows through here, as it would in theory drive demand for models for both games but... 🤷♂️ -
17 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:
@oggurt_da_bog_zombie i agree, if you're running Archaon in a S2D army both the warrior chaos lord and sorcerer are a must. Im surprised the combo doesnt come up more often in mono god armies running Archaon.
I played a local tournament not long ago and brought Archaon + Chaos Lord + Sorc Lord + Sorc on Manticore and it wrecked, every opponent would have been tabled if it went 5 rounds, 2 of the 3 were almost leveled by end of turn 2, but due to time constrains none made it past that.
Out of the 3 games i played, i maybe teleported the chaos lord once. The reality was that i just avoided combat with him and he moved + ran if need be every turn. Not a single opponent even tried to kill him wich was shocking, either they dumped everything they had into Arc or just played objectives and Arc pretty much just deleted any threats to the Lord.
The Sorc on Manticore had the amulet of destiny and it was a waste. That guy aint really for fist fighting with pr without the amulet. With Arc on table its hard for people to commit to trying to take out this guy unless you deliberately put him in harms way otherwise he just flys around casting his warscroll spell on hordes, granting +1 to someone, and picking of small weak stuff. I actually feel like this guy could benefit more from the tome, which btw, the teleport spell can be cast by someone else on the foot Lord.
Even with the Manticore the regular foot Sorc is still a must for his warscroll spell and they work well together as buff bots.
Ya, I've definitely run a variation of my list above where I have both the manticore sorc lord and on-foot sorc lord. The players I've played against have generally been clever enough to go after the Chaos Lord or more often, go after the sorc lord (either version) so I don't have Oracular Visions anymore. This is sorta why I put the Amulet of Destiny on the manticore sorc lord, and also that I really don't know what else I'd put on him, so the marginal benefit of the 5+ ward makes sense for when my opponent does go after him (especially with battle tactics like Bring it Down, the manticore is easier than Archaon to kill), or when I have him in combat. For the Chaos Lord, since there isn't really another better artefact to take than the Arcane Tome, if I don't want to go for the teleport trick, I could put the Amulet of Destiny on the Chaos Lord and try to fit this in a battle regiment or something. However, I like having Hunters of the Heartlands so trying to win the drops game seems like a stretch.
The Mutalith in that above list is really for fun, I think theres an argument to be made to run a Warshrine instead, but I don't like the model so I roll with the Mutalith or could swap it for the on-foot sorc lord, and maybe a better endless spell than the Burning Head. -
On 10/8/2021 at 1:26 PM, ChaosUndivided said:
The Chaos Lord on foot has a command ability that allows arcaon to fight twice. This is also why you give him arcane tome and teleport so he can remain in range. On the other hand the Sorcerer Lord has an undeniable +1 save ability and a spell that rereolls all hits and wound, wich is nice on slayer of kings in particular but awesome overall.
In a S2D list with Archaon im trying to bring both but i prefer the lord on foot, altho wasting an artifact on him sux.
It's pretty easy to fit in both lords. I don't have a ton of experience running Archaon, but the few times I did I ran both, and the Oracular Visions ability is just so, so helpful. You get to save Mystic Shield/All out Defense for other key units, and Archaon on a 2+ Save re-rolling 1's just from having a lil sorc lord following him around is worth it.
Or, take a Sorc Lord w/ Manticore, way easier to keep up with Archaon if you can fly too! I'm on the fence about giving the Chaos Lord the Arcane Tome but it sorta seems required if you want to pull off the Spurred by the Gods trick with Archaon.
I'm getting real excited to run some variation of this list now that Iron Golems can be battleline if they share the mark with the general:
Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness - Damned Legion: Host of the Everchosen (Sixth Circle) - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Archaon the Everchosen (830)* - General - Aura of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Call to Glory Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270)* - Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact) - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Ruinous Vigour Chaos Lord (120)* - Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Mask of Darkness 3 x Varanguard (280)** - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch 16 x Iron Golems (150)** - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Reinforced x 1 16 x Iron Golems (150)** - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Reinforced x 1 Mutalith Vortex Beast (175)* The Burning Head (20) *Warlord **Hunters of the Heartlands Artefact Total: 1995 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 98 Drops: 7
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8 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:
The only concern with the black knights is that they are an easy target for Broken Ranks, potentially.
Ya, it's a concern but I've sorta just succumbed to the fact that since Soulblight battleline are sorta flimsy but (re)summonable, they are going to die and thats okay, and so having difficulty preventing an opponent from getting Broken Ranks is sorta a tradeoff. Opponents are just going to take Broken Ranks when any of Soulblight's battleline are close to being killed and have a pretty easy time getting it (but yes, agree that Black Knights are by far the easiest). All out Def or Mystic Shield on Black Knights is probably a waste but could work, and obviously Nef's CA if she is nearby is helpful too.
On the other hand, I think I've had a ton of success when opponents take Slay the Warlord or Bring It Down and aren't able to finish off a WK general with all sorts of melee defense buffs, or can't kill a VLoZD with Soulbound Garments. Everything is a tradeoff I suppose.-
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5 hours ago, Leshoyadut said:
I think putting Soul-Crushing Contempt on the Wight King works if you run it next to Blood Knights instead of Black Knights because, as vampires, Blood Knights activate the 1d3 fleeing part. Yes, you miss out on the extra -1 to battleshock, but you're still giving -2 and can often times kill enough models that battleshock still presents a real threat. Gives you two scenarios: 1) The battleshock penalty works, and you get at least 1d3+1 fleeing models, which equates to a decent amount of free "wounds" done to the unit. Great. 2) The battleshock penalty isn't enough. You still have 5 Blood Knights in melee now. Which. Isn't a bad thing.
Obviously with Black Knights being battleline in LoB, it feels like there's that additional pressure to run them. Personally, I still don't think they're worth it because their warscroll is pretty mediocre and their points are way too high for what they bring. On the other hand, Blood Knights do enough damage on a charge (which they should get on most of your turns) to actually make the battleshock penalty a threat, and I don't think I can say that about Black Knights.
With that in mind, you end up with just bringing 5 Blood Knights, and then paying 135 points for a -2 battleshock aura to help take advantage of the +1d3 fleeing units they can cause. Plus the WK will do a couple wounds occasionally, which is nice, too. This lines up with you saying that it's really more of a bonus than something to build around, but I think it's a bonus that will come up often enough to matter if you happen to keep it in mind while list building.
Ya, so I have both Black and Blood Knights in my list, so depending on the situation I could try pulling this off with either combo, or on an especially large blob unit, can do this with both!
I've mostly given up on the bravery bomb for now as I have Coalesced Thunderlizards (cant modify bravery) and HotEc Archaon (ignore battleshock) in my local meta (as I'm sure many of us do), so messing with battleshock isn't that high priority, and the basic Battleshock shenanigans are fairly useful against normal lists anyway. I have been able to beat both TL and Archaon but it... wasn't easy. Getting the full 20 model GG unit into combat is the key tactic, and I've done that by keeping things like the Bastilodon or Archaon wasting time fighting trash like the Black Knights while the GG get into position.
I think the WK on Steed is great, does alright damage and mortals on the charge, and so I've opted for keeping him alive with the Aura of Dark Majesty, and going to try out the ring of dominion on him to see if that boosts his damage a bit. His 3+ base save is pretty nice too!
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15 minutes ago, Gery81 said:
I am going to try a very similar list against boneplitterz this Friday, but instead of running the WK and the Necro, I will run 30 skeletons, a blazier corpse cart, and an extra unit of Black Knights. I find that the Nef's command ability and the corpse cart's -1 to wound aura makes our guys very tanky in combat. With that combination, I haven't lost the skeleton block so far, they always held one side of the board in every game. Also, the -1 to cast aura helped a lot against LRL.
Neferata is an interesting one. I mainly use her to protect my line with her command ability, and to make my opponents think twice about where they move their big boys. Not everyone want to risk that 1 in 3 chance, and the ones that do usually regret it (mine has claimed Be'lakor's head). But, I have a question about this. Does this ability work if Nef is slain after her attacks? I am not sure. And her spell is awesome. I usually take the Amulet of destiny over the Soulbound garments, because between Dark Mist, Mystic shield, All out defense, and Finest hour, it is easy to give that 2+ to the VLOZD, or herself. I feel like we need the MW defence more.
Regarding our allegiance abilities. I have a feeling that Favoured retainers will become very strong. It helped against LRL (shining company), and Stormcast just got an easy cast spell for a big -1 to wound aura, which we don't care about. Also Arkhaon might want to respect our humble GG now, that he can't make us re-roll 6s to hit. It is harder to make immortal majesty work, but if you have enough vampire units to hit 2-3 targets, it can provide some additional casualties. It is something I especially want to test against armies with 4+ ward. I will see if it works against Bonesplitterz, or not.
And a few thoughts on Black Knights. I will use them for the first time on Friday, and I mainly want to see how useful they MWs on the charge will be. In theory, I can use them 2 ways. First, to soak up unleash hell, and still do some damage with them, because the MWs happen right after they finish the charge move (so, before Unleash hell). And second, is to clear small screens, or at least to make space for our big boys to charge something that the screen tried to protect. This where I am a bit torn on which Command Trait to use: RE-roll charges, so I can make those charges more reliably, or the extra pile in, to get to the units behind the screen. Oh, and a third niche use: the MWs are in the charge phase, so it's an extra phase we can deal damage to Morathi (and Mannfred too).
And a bit of a rant: It sucks that basically every list needs, or at least better with Belladama. Her ability to stop re-deploy and unleash hell, and the extra +1 to unbinds is just so hard to pass up. I really wish we got something more to help with these issues...
Re: Amulet vs Soulbound, ya I flop back and forth on this one. I'm already getting the 6+ ward via Deathless Minions and so I've trended towards getting to a 2+ via the Soulbound Garments so I don't have to spend CP / Spells on the VLoZD and can get a second unit, like the WK or Nef, down to a 2+, but I can see an argument for using the Amulet instead, as you are totally right that LoB (or just Soulblight in general) are still pretty weak to MWs even with the 6+ Deathless Minions.
Re: Nef, I don't see why the hero slay ability wouldn't work if Nef dies later in the combat phase... Doesn't say so in the rules, and it makes sense lore wise (i.e. its a "vampiric" blade and the damage to the hero is already done 🤷♂️).
Re: Allegiance abilities, ya I'm thinking this is the case too, I think Favoured Retainers will be more useful as more AoS tomes come out.
Re: Black Knights, ya I think they are mostly useful for soaking up shooting damage and tying up shooting units. I don't really rely on them for anything else, and the MWs are a nice bonus as a slightly wounded unit can be finished off by something else. I've only played DoK - Morathi once, but I'm pretty sure its only 3 wounds max a turn, not per phase, so I don't think it works out the way you described, but maybe I'm wrong?
Completely agree about Belladamma, doubt it ever changes. I'll run a Vyrkos army with her but I'm sticking to "canon" Legion of Blood list for now!
Good luck!-
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4 hours ago, Thamalys said:
@Neil Arthur Hotep, I agree with your analysis. At the moment, the one thing that Legion of Blood seems to be doing slightly better than the rest of the BloodLines is to keep your VLoZD alive for longer. Soulbound Garment makes brings him on a 2+ base, which is quite cool. If you bring Neferata (yes, that's a LOT of points, but hear me out...) you can make that 2+ "unrendable", which is gross, and on top of that you can give him Aura of Dark Majesty for a flat -1 to hit, which you can double via Neferata's command ability (Twilight Allure) to counteract any All out Attack commands. You are looking at 14 wounds on a 2+ unrendable save and -1 to hit with healing. Not shabby. However, mortal wounds will bring him down, and he's not the blender he was in the "old" Legion of Blood. Damage-wise he can spike, but nothing you can rely on. The Coven Throne can help to a point in that department. I found it weird that the allegiance ability asks you to focus on Deathrattle, but then again we have the Kastelai for the Blood Knights, so...
Legion of Blood, finally a topic I have some insight on 😆 🧛♀️!!
I love Neferata and the Legion of Blood lore, so I've been desperately trying to make a competitively viable LoB list, and have had some success. The basic idea is 1) Neferata is awesome, 2) VLoZD with Soulbound Garments is super tanky, so agree 100% with this analysis, and 3) The Wight King w/ Steed is a critical part of the army to get GG as Battleline and is a great tank too! The list hinges on getting into combat (ie. surviving hero/shooting phases), tanking things, and getting my heavy hitters into place (GG, Blood Knights, Nef). The strength of LoB seems to be in its artifacts more-so than its allegiance abilities, Favoured Retainers and/or Immortal Majesty rarely come up in my games, but when they do they are obviously more "bonuses" than "build-arounds".
My go-to list:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords - Lineage: Legion of Blood - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Leaders Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)* - Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)* - Deathlance - Artefact: Soulbound Garments - Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions Vampire Lord (140)* - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Necromancer (125)* - Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)* - General - Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty - Artefact: Ring of Dominion Battleline 5 x Black Knights (120)** 20 x Grave Guard (280)** - Great Wight Blades - Reinforced x 1 20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)** - Reinforced x 1 Units 5 x Blood Knights (195)* Endless Spells & Invocations Prismatic Palisade (40) Core Battalions *Warlord **Hunters of the Heartlands Additional Enhancements Artefact Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 108 Drops: 9
The learning so far is the Necromancer is sorta an unnecessary points sink. Vanhel's is obviously awesome, but what happens is I usually put my GG in a gravesite to pop them up nearby something I want them to kill, so the Necromancer usually can't reach them as he is usually hanging with the Deathrattle for the wound offloading, and Vanhel's on the Deathrattle is nice but maybe not worth the point-sink into the Necromancer. Instead, the CA from the Vampire Lord (on foot) is more useful as it helps the first attack from a GG or Deathrattle unit, as usually those units are wiped pretty quickly so a second attack in a phase from them is sometimes nullified by my opponent prioritizing those units in the combat phase. The problem with the Vamp Lord is its another CP sink, which I already have a bunch of with Nef and the WK! I'm considering dropping one of those heroes, likely the Necromancer, for more GG or something. I've been using Flaming Weapon on the Vamp Lord to try and make him a bit more of a heavy hitter but it hasn't been effective, so I might give him Amethystine Pinions instead to use after I've used it on the VLoZD in a previous hero phase.
For the WK, I've given up on on the bravery bomb, and instead I give him Aura of Dark Majesty, and usually use Nef's Dark Mist on the WK too, and like to ram the WK into things to tank. I used to run the Oubliette Arcana on him, but I'm going to give the Ring of Dominion a try, as I already have a good amount of unbinds and I think I'll get more mileage out of the Ring.
I'll also say that a unit of Black Knights are surprisingly useful, they fill a battle-line in LoB and make a great screen, as they have the effective 18" range and do mortals on the charge. I know people like Dire Wolves for this but the small point discount for Black Knights is nice, and they benefit from the LoB abilities. I've actually considered a second unit of Black Knights as having another speedy screen could help, but the way they points shake out, I'd almost certainly be better off taking a 10 man unit of GG instead. The issue with GG is that they are just so slow, and at least in my meta they'd probably just get shot off the table before being useful.
Lastly, Nef is a real star🧛♀️. I've only gotten about 8ish games with this list in (and I'm probably 50% win rate but I'm also a new player, I think that will go up), and the hero kill ability has actually never worked out but just the threat of that ability is awesome (but also puts a big bullseye on Nef), and I almost pulled it off against Archaon! Dark Mist is spectacular, and her CA is really good too. Her 16" move is great for hopping over things and attacking back-line heroes and shooting units. The problem with Nef is keeping her alive as she is the preferred target for opponent hero/shooting phases. I've put Vile Transference on her now (I was trying out Deathmages lore spells before but wasn't getting much use out of them) which might help, and obviously killing stuff with Nef gives her the D6 heal which is fantastic. She's so good that I've considered dropping the VLoZD for maybe a Coven Throne (and some more GG potentially) as the Coven Throne might be more synergistic with Nef, but I don't have that model so haven't really tried it out yet!-
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On 10/1/2021 at 5:41 PM, Honk said:
10 wolves are probably twice as good and only 15 points more… (1965) that leaves room for the burning head for some AoE missle, but beware of the rr1 to hit aura
Nagash & Neffi should make a nice and tough combo, although pretty CP hungry. With the gravesite you can call forth the guard pretty aggressively.
the list sounds funky, but of course, you’ll play with a fickle god-model
Ya, I'm realizing now that I'm going to be super short on CPs... I'll probably always use Nagash's CA, and Nef's CA is pretty darn good too, even the WK's CA is useful. I don't think theres a good way to get an extra CP with the exception of totally re-writing this list for Vyrkos and taking the Pack Alpha thing, but and I'm trying to keep this as a LoB list with Nef.
I guess I could try to get a Command Entourage battalion, but with so few units it seems like a Battle Regiment makes the most sense to get the first turn, but I could take Hunters of the Heartlands and a Command Entourage (a full Warlord Battalion seems sorta pointless).Nevermind, I can't fit a Command Entourage battalion in as I have two "Commanders", so thats a no go.
The Black Knights aren't ideal but I'm not super worried, I actually think they are pretty useful. Slightly more mobile than Dire Wolves and do mortals on the charge. My plan is to use them as a mobile screen, do some mortals on the charge hopefully, let them die, and re-do it. I think I'll probably try this list with Dire Wolves at some point once I get a set and paint them up, but I already have some Black Knights so going to roll with them for now.
I think I'm mostly just trying to figure out if and what endless spell is worth it. Since the Umbral Spellportal is only one spell a turn now, I don't think trying to fit that in (by taking cheaper battleline) is worth it, but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it's just worth taking the Umbral Spellportal for the extended Hand of Dust alone?
Your favorite unorthodox list ideas?
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Posted · Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
If in the new STD book there is a way to make the new Ogroids and/or the new Chaos Legionnaires battleline, I might actually try something like this (altho probably not that many Fomoroids) with Bela'Kor, Eternus, Ogroids (Myrm and the new unit), Legionnaires, and Fomoroids. 🤣
Can't wait for the new STD book!