MOMUS
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Posts posted by MOMUS
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8 hours ago, Sleboda said:
Nah. That's a lot of points to spend for practically no benefit.
Not to mention, by a literal application if the rules, it only ever works one time for one model.
Please, enlighten us.
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5 hours ago, fwlr said:
How crucial are people finding the judgements? Are you wanting to find room for them in every list you make, or are they a bit meh, and they're nice to have if there's a few points going spare?
The wrath axe seems just brutal, but at 60 points I'm finding it hard to stick on the end of many of my lists.
Thoughts?
They are the best use of spare points.
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This book is OK, it suffers from, copy paste, overcrowding and redundancy of abilities and unit types. It’s not as powerful as more recent additions for sure, I wouldn’t bank on points drops across the board, even though they may be needed.
just played the new slaanesh book, it’s VERY powerful. Played against:
keeper, with heal
2xHarp 1xmirror 1xmasque
30/20/20 daemonettes
I had reapers wrath and unfettered BT, gorepilgrims, wrathmongers, 2x5reapers
It was a quick game in which I mangeed to kill off his hero’s quickly, but in ONE battle round he amassed enough points to bring back a keeper and 30 daemonettes and have change. Weight of attacks and anything that does damage or attacks when it dies are gold. My blood warriors and skullreapers were great my BToUF was lucky not to be wiped in one round.
im sure next time I play it I will struggle
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Just now, Battlefury said:
Looking to create a tournament list for the next tournament.
We have 1250 points limit, with the army plan of 1k points. It is being played on a 48" x 48" table.
The scenario is "Focal Points".
Until now, all my army compositions got battered to dust, so as today against Fyreslayers.
Would you have any ideas, where to start with?
I do own a lot of units, but really have no clue anymore, where to start building.
The standart armies, I will face are:
Stormcast Eternals with Ballista, Sequitor & Evocator combo
More Stormcasts Eternals
Fyreslayers
Leagions of N. with no ghosts
Ironjawz
Playing on a smaller than normal table I would go for speed, units of dogs, runs and charge bloodthirster, maybe a min gore pilgrims with large warrior unit and the goretide SH to allow max run and charge, karanak? Gives you free unit of dogs, at lower points it will really make a difference.
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Just now, kozokus said:
No. Mostly because those different loadout do more or less the same thing or are at least target dependant. Contrary to 40k where some upgrades are more powerful than others.
Debatable. Yet I think people don't mind too much if list building is "boring" as long as the real game is not.
For my part, i find aos listbuilding extremely hard since you cannot grind points here and there. You have to make hard choices.
As fascinating as this discussion is, I don't think it belongs in the Khorne thread. Let's create another subject elsewhere and talks more about skulls and blood.
Most of the legacy units have multiple weapon options of which one is usually the optimum, esp when factoring in available buffs.
it is debatable. Thats my point, it’s highly subjective and so unlikely a clear consensus. T9A thrives and uses a point system, not inspite but because of it.
I find list building simple and that has its positives and negatives, I hope that in the next GHB there are some incentives for varied lists. I feel like competitive play is really sucking the flavour of the game.
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3 hours ago, kozokus said:
Would be a direct downgrade. The current system is an example of simplicity and elegance. Adding granularity in costing is overcomplexifing the game by a large margin. List correction are a nightmare in 40k. The only person made happy are list architects and rockinchair generals.
Simplicity and elegance lol others are just as likely to call it dumbed down and boring
The reason the points are the way they are is due to the community setting up a similar system before the first GHB. GW just followed, although they haven't improved the system much since.
I wouldn't mind points for upgrades, does seem a bit odd that units with several different loadouts all cost the same doesn't it?
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Just now, Darksteve said:
The issue imo with warriors is the terrible way gw went about designing thier special weapon. If they were in line with sequitors for example we would have 3x goreglaives per 5 guys with 1 on the leader getting an extra attacks. If they fix the loadout issue then they are fine at 100.
Are dogs really in "need nerf" territory? They have no rend and a 5+ save at 100 points. Imo they are fine. Mathmatically cannons should be about 105 points to be as good as they were pre wrathmonger change amd skullreapers are priced appropriately I believe, especially when comparing them to similar units in other books. Thier 5" move with 0 run and charge access really hampers them.
I can’t remember how the sprue is set up and that’s a serious limitation for how GW sets up the unit. Rules don’t overwrite the models.
Dogs don’t need a nerf, but I would say they are definitely good for their points, I could easily see them change to 110 or 120.
Cannon for 100 and I probably still wouldn’t include it regularly, it’s just so bad.
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Just now, Battlefury said:
Bloodsecrator: 100, maybe 120
Blood Reavers: 50/180
Blood Warriors: 80/420
Skullreapers: 140, maybe 160
Bloodcrushers: 120
Skull Canon: 100
Aspiting DB: 60
Khorgorath: 80, maybe 90
Flesh Hounds: 80 AND DECREASE THE PRICE ( actually, 40€ for 5 fu**ing easy to build models is bollocks )
Bloodsecrator should drop, still a useful model though
reavers at 50 would be way too cheap, same with warriors at 80 maybe give them both cheaper but bigger min unit size? (Might muck up battalions)
Reapers are awesome! I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go up
crushers and cannon I totally agree, cannon I don’t think is actually worth 100 same(ish) as 10 bloodletters, but any lower and it’s spam territory (esp with the battalion)
Deathbringer shouldn’t be a hero same as skullgrinder, in a new BoK I would do them as unit upgrades
khorgi maybe buy in pairs, cheaper, but are independent at start of battle?
fleshounds I’m sure will go up, too good for what they do, the price... well that’s Erm another matter lol
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7 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:
Having just come into possession of some new on sprue Bloodthirsters I find myself wondering what the optimal load out is for a Tyrants of Blood list? One of each kind, or somewhere in between?
One of each is pretty good IMO, maybe play a few games with proxy to see what fits your playstyle. With the GHB just around the corner I'm waiting to see the points/scenario changes to invest in another or skarbrand.
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I see a lot of talk about anvils and hammers etc in lists, does everyone still use this terminology IRL?
I feel like it’s a hangover from whfb, I find in my experience locally and at events there isn’t this varied list of unit roles. In most cases it’s just chaff and hammers, due to the nature of AoS objective play and the lack of composition rules anymore lists are being boiled down to the super Killy characters/monsters and the dross to claim.
I wouldn’t really say the BoK book has an anvil unit, back in the day you could have a 25 man unit in full plate with sword and board and stubborn banner that would hold anything reasonable for 3 turns maybe more. These days the damage output is immense, buffs are free and spells have no drawback, everything is fighting at 150% all the time and more recently the amount of units/armies that can double pile in for one reason or another means it’s two rounds of combat.
IMO the best chaff units at our disposal are fleshhounds and reavers, both are fast and cheap. They can claim objectives, block units and can attack enemy chaff. I prefer dogs for the weight of attacks.
Kill units for me would be bloodthirsters and skullreapers. Thirsters have movement, good damage/mortal wound, single model, amongst other things on their side. Reapers also have good damage, BS immunity, more damage resilient etc.
BoK have a lot of units with a lot of overlap, the new book copy paste job didn’t really help define units or give them more specific roles. The next GHB really needs to shake things up as all I’m seeing is 3 units of dirt cheap X and 4 units of super powerful Y. There is no incentive (in other armies) to take smaller units and support pieces are criminally underlooked. Example, imagine for a second the skull cannon wasn’t overcosted but it could actually do something impactful. 1 shot/D6 wounds off units of 30 or mega monsters is nothing, what about if it held a unit in place, or halved its movement, stopped it from charging, did battle shock on 3D6, or something.
At the moment the state of the game is not on par with the models or lore.
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Just now, ChaosUndivided said:
@MOMUS almost all my list are 100% mortals not because i need to win every game but i do need to have fun. The deamon side of things is just not that interesting to me. I got like 500 points of deamon stuff for summoning and i rarely even do that. So yes where do mortals stand without relying on Thirsters? Idk but it feels like a much better place than pre-tome.
I used to be the same, in the last book I started stockpiling daemons for summoning play, but with some of the recent changes to mortals like the bloodsecrator etc its kinda put the nail in the coffin, perhaps it’s just not a priority at HQ.
I sincerely hope the mortal units get some points adjustments in the next GHB, I love the models and lore. Currently painting up the third duplicates of the kits I have! Also want to convert a mighty lord on dragon as proxy bloodthirster.
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@ChaosUndivided I'd be interested to see how much further down the ranks the regular khorne players are and if any are mortal lists.
I actually dislike big smashy special characters that solo armies, maybe it's hangover from WHFB.
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@Glaidos how many daemons have you got in your collection? I would say it's the more powerful half of the book, a daemon battalion would be a good place to start then branch out into whatever you like.
For anyone aware of the SCGT, currently Ben Johnson is doing quite well with a reapers of vengeance list, tyrants of blood and blood hunt. One of each Bloodthirster and skarbrand.
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12 hours ago, Praecautus said:
It’s on page 127 with the points, they have to be taken together
Ah, I don't think I'll ever be taking them in that case lol.
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36 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:
If you take Magore's then you also have tp take Riptooth. Can't have one without the other as per warscrolls. Otherwise ya that would make for more interesting choice. I really wish the battalion warscrolls had Blood Warriors in bold letters especially Blood Mad, oh well.
I don't remember seeing that rule in the book? Which page was it on?
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I was thinking riptooth might be a good addition if you have the spare points and aren't running a priest -judgement is probably better choice.
he could be used as a lone objective stealer or to clear small chaff units.
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24 minutes ago, Render said:
Rules question: if you summon a unit in an army in which you've selected a Slaughterhost, does the summoned unit get the Slaughterhost keyword? I'm thinking no but wanted to double check.
I'm wondering for the sake of using Leave None Alive via a summoned hero.
Yes, page 2 of the designers notes.
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On 25 April 2019 at 2:13 AM, ChaosUndivided said:
Thats interesting now that you mention it, you're right. I never hear anything about France. I hear UK, USA, Australia, Sweeden, and just recently Canada. I see they make battletomes in French tho so their must be a market there and players.
I think AoS is really just picking up now. All pre 2.0 feels like beta. I have to say i think GW did an excellent job promoting 2.0 and it was very well recieved, most people liked the new direction of game and rule changes. I seen a number of 40k players make the switch to AoS scince Soul Wars.
You don't hear a lot about other European countries tournaments because they mainly didn't adopt AoS, WHFB was massive across Europe they were heavily involved with the WHFB ETC style of play so decided to stick with that and that's how they created the 9th age project.
AoS 2 is a great product, looking back it makes the original launch look a bit of a shambles, no lore, no core book, no magic and no points. It's easy to see why so many were put off.
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Next lists I'm working on for a tournament is probably going to be tyrants of blood with murder host this gives me two drops while being very flexible with the units I can choose.
Still tempted by manticore Lord, so could do tyrants, gore pilgrims and manticore, max out a unit of warriors to make the most of the command ability but I think it suboptimal compared to reapers instand double attack ability.
I hope the bloodbound mortals get some points drops in the next GHB.
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7 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:
Thanks @Warbossironteef that was the army that took 2nd place i was talking about.
I was looking for this list. Im kinda suprised, not cuz of Thirster + Skull Reapers or that its mostly mortal with Reapers of Vengeance host but the Blood Warriors and Reavers. I did not see that coming. I mean most of us here have agreed for awhile Blood Warriors are actually good now but still surprising to see them now making it into top armies. But Reavers? Ok they are cheap, and they are bodies you can throw at the stuff you dont really want to fight, and i guess x10 of them do some amount of damage? I guess just any 70 point thing that fulfils a requirement is good enuff some times.
Interesting thing about a mostly mortal army with a deamonic war host is all the things you summon get benifit from the host.
Edit: Warriors and Reavers make sense if your running Gore Pilgrims, i guess thats what suprises me. But it is still a great way to fit your whole supporting cast into a single drop.
It's a very similar list to something I ran a few weeks ago, team event (came third).
Gorepilgrims is just cheap access to another artefact, all the units within are ok but mainly used for chaff. That's also the reason why it's reapers of vengeance although mainly mortal, the thirsters do all the heavy lifting. Skullreapers are a good addition as they require little support to be effective and don't crumble.
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5 hours ago, Kaz said:
One thing I will say is: The Slaanesh thread are comforting each other, saying that the Slaves to Darkness Battletome will “certainly” be the book for them.
Why? Because we get those Slaves to darkness boys as well... and Archaon is not just for Slaanesh! He belongs to us as well, mwahahahhahaha
That's not really a equal gain.
The reason slaanesh players are eagerly awaiting StD updates is because it gives them access to something they currently don't have, it gives the list more options. Khorne already has warriors, mauraders etc it's just redundancy for us.
The debate is slaanesh has better buffs. If they drop points on StD it will increase the difference in power level between slannesh and khorne.
The only way it could improve our list would be if it the units are redesigned to fulfill gaps in our extensive current army list or if GW allocated different points to different marks. (I don't see this happening).
I see some negative posts in here and agree, some i disagree with. Negative citicism is part of the natural to and fro of conversation and debate. It helps formulate new ideas and further the thread. To try and censor one aspect is in itself unhelpful, you can't have one without the other.
What we can all agree on is unconstructive criticism and personal attacks don't have a place on this forum.
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Just now, SmileB4uDieXD said:
But then the bloodtithe points being spent would be at the end of the phase then...
No it’s still at the start of the phase, the player who’s turn it is just gets the priority.
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Came third in a team event yesterday. Slightly skewed results as you can engineer match ups, I played skaven round 1, gloomspite round 2 and mortal khorne round3.
I took:
reapers of vengeance
2 thirsters, wrath/unfettered
Skarr
2x5 dogs
10 reapers
+minimum gore pilgrims with bleeding icon
(Starstrike) skaven match up was instead of seraphon with bastiladons, really tough match up anyway, so much damage output and similar to old skaven no rolling to hit. Basically it was a walking screen of clanrats with Deciever, thanquol + 2 cannons behind it. I conceded T4.
(Shifting objectives) gloomspite is a good match up for khorne I think. Needed to concentrate loads this game working out possible movement of squigs. My whole army got stuck in, everything can fight everything apart from the manglers! Opponent conceded T4.
(total commitment) mortal khorne army, I believe my opponent hadn't had chance to fully go through the book so handnt changed his list much. It was a great game to end the event on with blood tithe ranking up for both of us. Opponent conceded T4
All my opponents and their team mates were great guys and really helpful, really nice venue if any of you are down in Exeter area i would check out Kirton Games in Crediton.
Overall I liked my list, I did feel a bit cheap using 2 thirsters with the attack twice command ability but when looking around everyone else seemed to have similar, girstlegore etc. Next I'll be working on some more daemons and maybe a daemon prince. Think I will drop the gore pilgrims soon and replace with a daemon battalion, maybe just include the priests and reapers.
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I would hope in the next GHB several of the mortal units would get a points drop to correct the current book.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
As the GHB is next month I've just been painting up unfinished units waiting to see what is happening next.
At the moment I'm working on my altar in the same scheme as my army, anyone else painting?