Chronos

Archaon does not get the allegiance abilities from the other Chaos armies, is that correct?

Retreat and charge of 12" flying is unreal. Also his healing ability and ward just got a bit better now that the FAQ came out. I just started finishing off my IDK, can;t wait to get some games in.

That's amazing. Fulminators come on down.

Hey Jordan, thanks for the awesome reply. It seems I read into what you guys were saying a little too much or in the wrong way. I think my mindset was, after watching your last two tournament recaps, that here's 3-4 guys who are obviously really great at the game, placing 4-1 and 5-0 and it seemed like to me you were saying the damage was too easy, not to be careful it's too easy. So that's my bad on the misinterpretation. Also I found it funny that your Seraphon player(I'm bad with names...) is 5-0 the last two tournaments with probably a mean list and here you guys are talking about Stormcast being maybe too good? But again obviously you've clarified you're talking moreso about TV being the problematic part so again that was maybe my mix up in what you were saying. I'd like to say that I wasn't trying to say you were the ones wanting them nerfed into the ground, but there has in general been talk of Stormcasts' good units getting nerfed especially with the December FAQ so that's why I brought it up. Just watching your channel in general this has helped me a lot as someone who got into AoS just before Covid hit and am just starting to play a lot of games now, because you're absolutely right. I had a pretty good idea of how to fight Archaon Tzeentch due to your batreps but going in blind against giants was rough. You're obviously much more experienced and a better player than myself, so you're probably right. I just find in this meta with a lot of power-pieces that to me it's just another power-piece. Add in talk of Fulminators getting a points bump and it does seem a bit like Stormcasts good pieces are getting adjusted RIGHT AWAY, and (someone else already brought this up in earlier pages) but other power pieces can last a year or more. I guess we will see what happens in December! Even if I did complain about what you guys talked about, I don't think anything you said was derogatory or that you hate the army! You gave an in depth look and I'm somewhat biased so disagreed with your opinion. Not to sound like I'm a promoter, but you're content is awesome and everything you're doing with your channel is great. It's my go to for batreps and to learn nuances of the game as it's IMO the best place for a competitive look and just such good production value! On a side note, I'm in the west GTA but I think you've scared me off of going into X-planet(I think you've mentioned that FLGS) as it seems like the meta is really strong/amazing players. Thanks again for the reply.

Yeah, I don't know. The guys on that channel are really good players with a lot of good insight. I think maybe the impression I'm getting with the Stormcast "hate" is that the army is too straightforward? For instance with Lumineth or First Prince type armies, the player probably feels like a big brain player because there are a million little rules and when you get all those interactions together and have a really strong army it seems justified, whereas Stormcast have strong scrolls and not a ton of little interactions to make things good. So it seems 'too easy' for a Stormcast player to use the army so therefore shouldn't have the same strength, or something. Like, it is not 'earned'. Thunderbolt Volley is a command ability, boom, done. Gardus just give a 12" 5++ rather than Teclis having a spell that interacts with his special rules to give 18" 5++. Sentinels cast a spell for extra mortals and then can just shoot over things, meanwhile Lord Relictor Translocating Longstrikes into place and then Thunderbolting is a bit trickier and that's also offside? Anyway, after two years of painting up and exploring a bunch of different armies at different strengths and having finally settled on Stormcast, it just really has started to bug me when I hear all the complaining, yet see so many other armies with powerful pieces and bags of tricks. Plus SoB.

Yeah focusing is probably the way to go. I have to get better at screening as well. On another note, I just finished watching the bat rep at Season of War between a list similar to the one above against a double mawa-krusha list and the Stormcast won. I like the guys a lot(being fellow Canadians) but it was... interesting to hear them talk(complain) about Stormcast so much when both these guys are super competitive and play things like double maw-krusha Ironjaws and Lumineth with a bunch of Sentinels. I mean, in my game against Host Arcanmum Tzeentch with Archaon and Kairos(really underpowered list there), my opponent just sat Kairos within range of my Longstrikes, so of course I killed him. Even without TV I would have killed him turn one. I don't see how it's Stormcasts' issue when the opponent is going to just put his 4+ save monster within range. If you want to castle up and get all your buffs off as Lumineth turn one, it's not my problem if you are going to have to leave you 740 point god model within range. I'm just really surprised by good players not feeling like they need to counter-play and change their tactics around as new armies come out. I also can't believe a Lumineth player would complain about another strong shooting unit that isn't even as good. Do people really want Stormcast nerfed so they aren't good at anything? *Edit I should also note that in a previous tournament, the Lumineth player lost Teclis turn 1 but still ended up winning the game... Just a weird take all around.

It's pretty tough for me to not include the Incantor making lists now, I think it might be more important than a Relictor now. Any ideas or thoughts on taking on giants? It almost seems like you have to go one drop or get a super alpha from Annihilators/Raptors if you have to go first.

I wonder if it would be better to have the Knight Incator in this list in case you can't go first to stop any sniping of Gardus?

Nice list and good game. I just got back from a couple games and the Fulminators were my MVPs, too bad you lost them early. I only ended up playing two games and the first was Archaon Tzeentch with Kairos, savage gains. We were both 8 drops and he finished first so he took first. My Longstrikes were placed kind of center of my deployment and in range of Kairos, and he was probably nervous of them so kept Archaon off to my left. He did his buff spells and I Voided Mystic Shield on Kairos. Moved up and took both side objectives and summoned more screamers and scored 7. My turn, I knew Kairos was the lynch-pin so I TV'ed him down to about 4 wounds left. I kept one unit of Fulms in the sky and brought them down behind Kairos and 10 Acolytes. I charge 2 Fulms into a bunch of the screamers and magister on the right objective and moved up a bit on the left, blocking any moves by archaon with positioning. Totally blew away Kairos with the Longstrikes, and then re-rolled the 9 inch charge into the Acolytes killing all 10 and taking his back objective. Got 8 points. With Bring it Down on Kairos. Didn't get the double, so he needed to chase the 2 Fulms in his back lines with Archaon, and they survived with 3 wounds left. he couldn't move much and his magic phase was lackluster without Kairos. He did score 7 but thinkgs were going my way. He got another 7 points. My turn I believe I sniped both his Blue Scribes and Magister with the Longstrikes. I think I finished off most of the screamers and got my Vindictors on the points to take it with conquer scoring me 7. Still missed the double as it would probably be over, but the Fulm who was in combat with Archaon I retreated to the edge of the objective so he had to chase me. At this point I believe he had Archaon, the Sorc Lord, 3 Screamers on the left objective and a few left on the right. He summoned 10 Blues to take the left objective for conquer. He scored 5, killed the fulminator, I still had four left. Bottom 3 I believe I moved up 2 Fulminators to charge Archaon but he redeployed 5 inches, which led me to make a mistake in that I didn't move my Longstrikes up in the movement phase and then they were out of range to shoot! I failed the charge on Archaon, but had the last two Fulms in position to counter charge once Archaon charged those other Fulms. Was able to kill enough Blue Horrors to take the left side objective and score Aggressive Expansion, scoring 7. Still didn't get the double, but he charged the Fulminators, killing one. That's about it, tried to get the objective for killing a Battleline unit but wasn't able to. This was pretty much it, but we played my turn 4. I was able to Translocate my Relicotor and move the remaining unit of Raptors into his territory for Savage gains. Then Took Archaon down a to something like 5 or 6 wounds left, charged in the remaining Fulminators and killed Archaon. We called it there. Fun game and great opponent, I can't really believe my plans came together, but killing Kairos I knew would be key. Second game, there's not much to say. I played Giants for the first time and got doubled turn 2, so really had no chance and got stomped. Made a lot of dumb mistakes, but I didn't know what the giants would be like. I even forgot to TV on my first hero phase... ugh. With AoD and the Latern from the Castellant on a unit of Fulminators, they were able to tank a gargant only taking 3 wounds in two round of combat. I did roll well though! Take away from the Sons game, would be I should have killed his baby giants, and not forgotten Thunderbolt Volley, and also played much more conservatively after being given the first turn. He was a 2 drop, so I think if I specifically played him again, trying to get to a one drop would be beneficial, and taking some Annihilators. I also think a unit of 4 Fulminators or 4 Concussors would be really good, not just two. Anyway, fun couple games, thanks for all the advice.

Alright, I have my three gamer tomorrow and here's what I've settled on if anyone has any last minute advice! Hammers of Sigmar, Scions of the Storm, Pillars of Belief, Thunderbolt Volley. Lord Relictor - General, Mirror, Translocate, High Priest Lord Castellant - Arcane Tome, Chain Lightning Knight Incantor - Lightning Blast 3x2 Fulminators 2x3 Aetherwings 2x5 Vindictors 1x6 Raptors - Longstrikes I chose to go with the Castellant to try to get two units of Fulminators on 2+ just to keep them living longer. Aetherwings and Vindictors make a castle around the Longstrikes(if I deploy them) and can teleport the Aethwings around as needed. I am considering dropping the Castellant in order to take 2x10 Skinks for some more chaff, but don't think I will this time around. I sit at 99 wounds and 7 drops.

Yeah, thanks for the perspective! Furiously building Fulminators.

It's the last round. Rest of the list is K Incantor, L Relictor, Imperatant with 6 Longstrikes, 5 Vindictors, and 2x10 Skinks.

Found out the three Battleplans I'll be playing this weekend at a tournament and unfortunately for me Tooth and Nail is in there. My plan was to run three units of Grandhammers, but that battleplan is really going to hurt. Of course it will also hurt summoning armies, but I'm not sure how to navigate having to not be able to use Scions. I could switch all three units for 4 Fulminators and another 3 Raptors, but then I kind of feel like I should just go with it and try to learn to play around it. Grandhammers are just SO slow and they won't benefit from half their warscroll. Kinda bummed out, tbh.

This is all great, I'm definitely thinking along the same lines. I got my skinks! I have my 3-gamer on the 27th so have a few things to get built, I'm excited to try everything out. I'm literally taking the same list, unless I last minute switch another 3 Raptors in instead of Grandhammers, but I think I'll save that against the really top tier lists. Great conversation!

Well, FLGS had three boxes of Dracoths and I took home two, so maybe they'll be even more more valuable with the dragons going up.

This is great, thanks! I've been trying to fit in more bodies in the battleline slot AND the Aetherwings and I just was never comfortable with only two units of Libs or Vinds, but I never considered the Skinks! That really fills an area of need big time in our similar lists. I'm going to my FLGS today and grabbing a box. I'm curious, do you keep you Lord Imperatant in the sky until your movement phase turn 1? If so, one of the things I've worried about is dropping him and him getting sniped off turn two or three before the other two units of Grandhammers get dropped, but I suppose he is pretty tough with 7 wounds and would be -1 to hit if he can get Look Out Sir. And I guess if they are shooting at him they aren't shooting more valuable units. I also really like having Lightning Blast and Chain Lightning to splash some mortal wounds around if you aren't going to Mystic Shield, which in this army isn't really that important I guess. Last question is, the Skinks can go in the Redemption Battalion?

Hey, similar to the lists I've been thinking minus the skinks. You found using the 3x3 Annhilators worked pretty well? Did you drop each unit per turn and it felt like you were able to really pick their fights? I'm curious about the skinks, were they used as mobile chaff and screens? And did teleporting the Aetherwings work well? I'm guessing you had Thunderbolt Volley? Grats on the win!

Yeah, doing the math though it takes a lot to take out some key pieces. First Prince, if I wanted to take out the Daemon Prince it can very likely take a combined amount of shooting from 9 Raptors. Maw Krusha with a 3+/5++ will take on average the TV from 6, and shooting from another 9 to kill in one go. Teclis as well would take a lot as he easily could have a 2+, although I think I could dispell his 5++. You're probably right though, that it makes sense to diversify more, but with all the big baddies I would hate to almost kill one.

I think after that giant post, I'm going to go with 6 and 3 Raptors instead of 3x3 Annihilators. Just gives so many options to take out key pieces in tough lists, although I don't know if that's too much for the tournament. Has anyone tried using 9 Raptors? Did you make room for Aetherwings? Translocating them up in range for turn 1 could be worth it.

@PJetski Really enjoying the Stormkeep videos! @Erdemo86 Bastion looks great! I wanted to get some advice on strategy and a little on list building as I've got my first mini tournament coming up, 3 games total. I also lost a game to my Khorne friend playing Feral Foray recently, which was partly me underestimating him, not knowing the scenario, and not screening properly. What I learned from that game is KEEP THE RAPTORS SAFE. So what I'm thinking for the list is building around Grandhammers, as right now I have nine, and six Raptors with the basic hero contingent of Imperatant, Relictor, and Incantor, all in Scions. Here's the list: Lord Relictor - General, Mirrorshield, Translocate, High Priest Knight Incantor - Thundershock or Starfall Lord Imperatant - Doggo friend 3 x 3 Grandhammer Annihilators 1 x 6 Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes 3 x 5 Liberators w/Shields Thunderstrike Volley. This gets me to 1990 points and 87 wounds. I've been going back and forth on trying to make this a one drop to counter any armies like Lumineth, but I feel like with the Incantor, I can set her up in range of Teclis or Kairos if they are one dropping and not worry as much about going second. This opens me up to be able to take Hunters on my three Grandhammers units which is big, and also grab a second artifact OR Holy Command. I am assuming it's possible to take an extra different Holy Command as it is an Enhancement, but if I'm wrong please let me know. If I took another Holy Command I would be very tempted to take Unleash Thy Hatred, but bringing back 5 Libs would be kind of nice too. As for why I split the Grandhammers into units of three instead of having one unit of six, in the game against Khorne I took a unit of six and although they wiped out whatever they touched, they then got stuck up the board and affected little else the rest of the game. I'm thinking having units of three drop in every turn will let me react to threats/openings as they present themselves and also keep my opponents wondering. This Also maximizes their warscroll abilities. The strategy is also to use the Grandhammers in conjunction with the Raptors, in that together they can guarantee to take out tough units in a turn(after the Thunderbolt turn), but really I feel the Raptors are the linchpin in that my opponent really has to react to them AND the Grandhammers ability to put damage where I need it. Thanks to PJetski I've really come around on Libs, and they fit perfectly in here to provide durable screens(even though I love the Vindictor models). I also haven't picked a Stormhost, as I can't really decide between CW, CV, or KE. If I went with Knights Excelsior, that frees me up to use the 345 points from the Liberators, but I really need them as screens. What I could do is drop a unit of Libs and Annihilators and bring a Celestant Prime, but that does drop me in wounds, although I get the 4+ ward. Also I'd really lose out on damage unless I kept the Prime upstairs until turn 3, but I would be doing that with a unit of Grandhammers anyway... With Celestial Warbringers, getting a reroll on the Vanguard Raptors is a nice bonus, and even rerolling a save or hit/wound on the Grandhammers is a nice bonus, but the Celestial Vindicators is also very nice and usually seems to make it so 9 or 10 attacks get all the way through to the save rolls. Lastly, it is tempting to go Shock and Awe for the Trait, just to keep the Grandhammers around a little longer after they drop in if anything can attack back, but being able to almost guarantee Translocate on the Raptors might be too valuable, and also make endgame moves for objectives. Anyway, if you've made it this far, thanks a lot. Any advice or thoughts is appreciated. I don't think it's going to be a hyper-competitive event, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Be'Lakor Teclis, Maw Krusha, etc. I feel like if I can take those big pieces out early, my path to victory will be much easier. Quick edit for the Incantor, I figure to go with one of those spells because shes really just there for the dispell, and I don't think I really need + to wound in this army. Also my Grand Strategy would be Pillars of Belief.

So I ended up playing a game against Nurgle, which I lost, but it was a great game and close up until the end of turn 4 where I just made some mental mistakes. Super fun all around and a great learning experience. I took: Celestial Warbringers, Pillars of Belief, Thunderbolt Volley Lord Relictor -General, A of Destiny, High Priest, Translocate Knight Judicator Knight Incator - Arcane Tome, Celestial Blades Lord Imperatant 2x3 Annihilators 3x5 Vindictors 1x6 Vanguard Raptors/w Longstrikes 2000 points on the nose. His list included GUO, Be'Lakor, Slopity, Spoilpox, 2x2 Beasts of Nurgle, 20 Plaguebearers, and 2x10 Plaguebearers to the best of my memory. We played first blood. The highlight of the game for me was three Annihilators one-shotting Be'Lakor turn 2, I couldn't believe it, although he had already used his ability to shut down my Raptors for a turn. Raptors put in a lot of work other than turn two, I just saved TV until the next turn. Vindictors put up a pretty good fight in the middle objective but got slowly ground down, and the Annihilators were a great distraction, I think all six together took down Be'Lakor and then 20+ Plaguebearers which we was able to use to tie them up. Against Nurgle they did a lot of damage to themselves. I was down by one going into turn 4, he won priority and was able to complete his objective and scored 5 points. Bottom 4 I picked Aggressive Expansion, which I easily would have completed as I had the KJ and hounds on an objective with only 3 PBs on it, and I Translocated the Raptors over to the other side with only Slopity on it(GOU was on the middle tied up by my Incantor). There were 11 plaguebearers who had finished off my Annihilators that could have made it into my raptors turn 5, but I elected to take a shot at the GUO which was not a good idea, even tough I rolled 5 6's to hit I still only did 9 wounds, so I really should have taken out the PBs because at this point he had nothing left except GOU, Slopity, 3 PBs and 11PBs although he would have summoned 10 more next turn. Then, mistake number two, I charged the gryph hounds into the 3 other PBs and they killed one and I killed nothing in return, so I made myself lose the objective! Really dumb, but I think I just got over confident. Oh well. I only scored one point, and we rolled off and he won priority, so I didn't really have a chance to come back. Overall it was a super fun game, great opponent. I started back into Warhammer December of 2019, so to finally get an in person game in was really great(although I did play against my friend 10+ times). I cycled through more than a few armies, including Tzeentch and IDK, but I really like Stormcast. Anyway, the Knight-Judicator didn't really do that much, so I will probably tweak my list to drop him, and honestly as much as I love Vindictors, 3x5 units of Liberators just frees up 45 points that I can then spend on 3 more Granhammer Annihilators, and I think that rounds out a pretty good all around army that can hold their own.

I just realized I can't actually do a true one drop as the lists are, so I guess I may as well go for a 4 drop for an extra artifact or holy command. I could also switch the Knight Vexilor out for a unit of 5 Vindictors and both would be exactly 2000 points. Really not sure what to do!

So I have my first in person game tomorrow, possibly against Nurgle, and I'm trying to finalize my list but not to just specifically fight a certain army. I don't have any Dracoths. I'm thinking either to go Celestial Warbringers, or possibly Knights Excelsior depending on the list. Both would be Scions and both probably Pillars of Belief for the Grand Strategy. For CW I'm thinking: Leaders Lord Imperatant Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades Knight Judicator w/Grpyh Hounds Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield Units 2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers 3x5 Vindictors - Battleline 1x6 Vanguard Raptors If I went KE: Leaders: Lord Imperatant Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades Knight Vexilor - Meteoric Standard Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield Units 2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers 1x3 Annihilators w/Shields 2x5 Vindictors 1x6 Vanguard Raptors I would take Thunderbolt Volley with both. I'm not sure if I should go for a true one drop, or go for another artifact/holy command. Apologies that I accidentally posted only half done!

Thank you very much.

Quick rules question: If I'm playing Scions and I have say 5 units in deepstrike, and 5 in a unified battalion to place on the table, do I still have to go back and forth with the opponent in drops even with the deepstrike units or would I one drop my battalion and then say the rest is in reserve in order to have a one drop?