TeclisGod
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Posts posted by TeclisGod
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@Gaz Taylor Sorry, I got carried away. If it ends up getting more on the Lumineth side of topics feel free to move it. It seems to have died off altogether but thank you for the reminder.
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This was the list I was talking about earlier. 4 Drops, but the model count might be too low. What do you think?
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@swarmofseals That is true. LoE seems to be the weakest of the non cathallar/stonemages to field but he is 220 points so it makes sense. Shining company and the -1 aura of a Avalenor is huge and easy buff to acquire. The Command Ability is good but not necessary it seems. You think fielding 2-3 heroes would be a common choice in Lumineth? I don't see many people running more or less than that.
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39 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
@swarmofseals Thanks for your input and thoughts for this new faction. You and maybe one other people has actually told me that not only is Teclis not necessary, but is also risky. Its good to hear multiple styles of list building with Lumineth. I agree 100% with you on the dawnriders. They are the only fast unit in a slow army and is pretty good as well. I tend to find Zaitrec the more competitive nation for Lumineth as well. I have had thoughts on Avalenor as well. He will definitely be a unit to keep an eye on performance wise. There was a Teclis list I built but lacked a lot of model count so it was pretty fragile of a list. I can see why it's so hard to build a list around Teclis. Thanks again for your thoughts.
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2 hours ago, ArchaicArc said:
Hey all, so I’m gearing towards a core troops army, led by cathallars and perhaps Eltharion from time to time.
My question would be how would you guys go about making Syar or Ilithia effective with these forces?
It doesn’t need to be ultre-competitive as I generally don’t like rocking min/max style armies, but I also haven’t actually played the game yet due to the virus.
Just what would be the best strategies and combinations to get the most out of these factions without becoming a negative experience for my opponent.
Thanks!
I guess just run 3-4 units of both wardens and sentinels. The more and bigger units the better if u wanna use Cathallar. Should be fun to see and different for Lumineth.
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45 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
@TeclisGod great topic. I'll preface my response with a caveat: I don't have personal experience at the top level of play, but I follow the meta quite closely. I think I'm pretty knowledgeable in this area but would not consider myself an "expert."
With that being said, I think that this is a complex question with a complex answer. There is no hard and fast rule about how low drop you need to be. How valuable having the choice of turn is varies from army to army, battleplan to battleplan, and matchup to matchup. It's also relevant to think about how much you are giving up to reduce your drops. Some factions give up very little or even nothing in order to keep their drops low, while other factions have to make major compromises to reduce drops.
Thus when considering this question context is very important. Are you trying to be competitive in local tournaments, regional/national tournaments or international tournaments? Are you shooting for a winning record, a Top X finish or are you really gunning for 5-0? Depending on your answers you will be able to hone in on the metagame you really need to pay attention to. You want to know how many drops other players are taking.
I did some math on this compiling results from a couple of major tournaments last year and looked at how likely you would be to have the choice of turn at each level of drops. I found a few inflection points where there was a pretty steep gain in reducing your drops to that level, but the inflection points may well be different now as the metagame has evolved since then. Regardless, you want to know what your payoff is for reducing your drops to a certain point. Depending on what your focus is, you should either be honing in on the overall metagame (if you are looking to maximize your win rate) or the top tables metagame if you are trying to maximize your odds at 5-0. If you are aiming at local tournaments, analyze your local metagame. If you are aiming at larger regional events try looking at results from those tournaments. If you are looking at international (GT) level competition, look at results from those events.
Once you have that information handy, you can then delve into the question at various levels of sophistication:
- At the basic level, you can try to understand how much your army cares about having the choice of turn. If you are very vulnerable to alpha strike or are relying on an alpha strike yourself, you probably are very invested in having the turn choice. Also in general if your army is very committed to playing the game in one particular way you're probably more likely to want the choice of turn. If you null deploy but aren't committed to an alpha strike you probably care less about having the turn choice. Similarly if you are very fast but also not particularly fragile you probably don't care as much. If your army can play in a variety of ways you probably care less.
- At the next level, you will consider the specific tournament pack for the tournament you are planning to compete in. Check the battleplans and see if they change anything about your calculus regarding turn choice. Historically some battleplans have punished not having the choice of turn very harshly, although that is a bit less true now (who knows with the new GHB!)
- At the next level you'll consider both the battleplans and the metagame. Are there specific matchups that are both likely to be present and where your win rate is likely to be swung very dramatically by having the turn choice? If so, what drop count do you need to beat in those matchups? Also try to avoid falling into the trap of obsessing over matchups that are heavily against you (as long as those matchups aren't completely inevitable). Sometimes the best plan is just to hope that you don't get matched up against a faction that you can't realistically beat.
Just in case you really don't have the time, information, or experience to do the work necessary for the above calculus, here are some general impressions that I had the last time I looked at data. Take this with a huge, huge grain of salt though as the metagame has probably shifted a lot since then and we really don't know what it will look like in the near future:
- The average list was in the 7-8 drop range. If you're just trying to compete against the field in general and want to have the choice more often than not, then being in the 6-7 drop range was a bit of a sweet spot.
- Three is another cluster of lists in the 4-5 drop range. However, these lists also tend to be more competitive and high performing on average. If you're looking to shoot for 5-0 and care a good deal about having the choice then I would shoot for 4 or fewer if you can, or 5 at the most. If you really, really need the turn choice then you pretty much need to be under 4.
- Just remember though that not all factions are equal in terms of their ease of reducing drop counts. If you need to make a major sacrifice to get from 5 to 4 or 4 to under 4, then you really want to think long and hard about it. Same goes for getting under 7.
This is the answer I was looking for. Thank you so much
Once tournaments start to open up again in my area and things are safer to participate in I will be taking all this into consideration. My goal atm is to just have an even record if I can since it will be my first tournament for AoS (I used to play fantasy but I will admit this is a completely different game). I have just started collecting Lumineth Realm - Lords and will be using them in tournaments. I am not sure how familiar you are but I figure you know a decent amount since you do stay up with the meta, but Lumineth has a pretty low model count do to having a leader that is pricey but mostly worth the points. With that said they also have good battalion choices as well which I will be using one in my list. My original list was 3 drops but I wasn't sure how much I would suffer from going to 4 by adding and extra element to the list that provides a little more variety. From what it seems like in your post going from a 3-4 drop isn't the end of the world and because Lumineth is brand new it will take many games to figure out. Just hoping I would get someone to reply that is already or has been in a Meta focused mindset and I have. Would it be easier to answer if I provided a list and you can break it down for me or is Lumineth not yet enough discovered for you? Thanks again
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Hello Gamers,
This is a short and simple post. What is a good amount of drops for a list? I haven't played a tournament yet but I know that having a low drop count is very important throughout games. I have heard of lists with 2 drops, 3 drops or even a 1 drop. Would a 4 drop be too many or would it be not much different than a 3 drop. I know this can be very situational on what people bring to a tournament but in a tournament where it is heavily played in the current meta...what would you expect to see with drop counts and what to look for in a list to try and secure your turn decisions? Thank you so much and I am sorry this is a vague question and I expect to have vague answers but as a starting point it would be nice to see what to look for. Thanks
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My friend is painting my collection and I wanted to share it to you all. So far he has done a test model for both the Warden and a Dawn Rider. I love the paint scheme and I am excited to see the rest of it.
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24 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:
I think I may paint them either like ziatec or iliatha, but I for sure want to use those turboshift paints.
listened to the bad dice pod cast and man they are loving on teclis. Half the conversation was about him, and they do mention how the sudden drop lists hurt him a lot. They didn’t really talk about armies without him though, and I think they obsessed about him way way too much. With every unit being a wizard we can still throw so much magic around without him, and the twin stone may be the biggest lynchpin for us to use. Sad that the rune of petrifaction is so bloody expensive though.
also, I think with the way they talked about screening and covering space is valuable. The LRL really have to be careful to not stay attached to the shining company rules. If we need to spread out we should, if we need to charge we should. It’s not a in stone restriction, so we have to be careful to know when to hold the line and when to spread out.
With all the games I have played and armies I always painted my own theme, but for once I am willing to just do the box art. I love the other Grand Nations themes and the original one as well but just for a new fun experience I will stick with the box art.
I listened to that podcasts as well and I agree with you. I think its because so many people wanna make it the easiest as possible when doing things (in this case casting spells). Its like when you have something so nice its naturally hard to try things that aren't as nice. I think think both style of lists are fun and work really well. I personally am trying the Teclis elves list just for the sake that its more elvish. I do like the other style and theme a lot too but I wanna try the elves first. Overall, from what I have seen/heard I am very excited about Lumineth and what GW has created. -
3 hours ago, Chumphammer said:
Do we know what colour they used for the Armour?
I did a test idea for a scheme i might use (I am not the greatest painter and this is just colours thrown on a Phoenix guard to get an idea)
At the GW site you can see the colors they used for the box art. They have the usual classic paint choices and the contrast version. As far as for the other Grand Nations and their paint themes I haven't found it yet but I am sure it's in the box set when it arrives.
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2 hours ago, Chumphammer said:
2x5 and 10 can both work, as 2 x 5 can be better for clearing chaff units. Issue as stated is drops with Teclis. i really think you need to be looking at a 2 or 3 drop list with Teclis to try and lock in that 1st turn choice.
I like 10 also for taking ona bigger unit or monster (though both can with the lighting reflex rules) but 1 bigger unit is better to throw buffs on. 10 can be a great wall if you have the 5+fnp on them and ethereal. Also, do they get the -1 to hit also if they dont run and charge/have 3 models touching?Yea that is true. Would you agree that most situations with better to go first with this list because of the amount of long range shooting and buffs or do you think its better to go 2nd most of the time?
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15 minutes ago, Lucur said:
Statistically a 5 man unit on the charge will deal 9.6 wounds vs 4+save 1w infantry with power of hysh on. This drops to 8.2 without PoH. So to wipe any large infantry unit you will not only want 10, you'll have to drop the aetherquartz to improve the odds. BUT you could always use two smaller units and utilize lightning reactions if you fear retaliation.
I assume to build around a dawnrider lance with 2×10 squads to sweep chaff and some (2×20?) Sentinels to plink heroes. From there we'll see how wardens and Stoneguard fare on the table. At least that's my plan going forward ^^
Yeah that is true 5 dawnriders is around 10 and 10 dawnriders is around 20 wounds against 4+ with Hysh. The only reason I am running a larger unit instead of 2 units of 5 is because I am trying to reduce my drops. Currently it's at 3 which is think is probably good enough.
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1 hour ago, Duke of Mousillon said:
Something i am still trying to figure out in my head is if the cowhelmets can actually be used in MSU to screen for wardens as there first rank so to say or if its really just too cute to work. 100 Points isnt the world necessarily but it would also increase the drops. Thats a bigger concern i have.
The thing I am working around the most for list creations are low drops. Good thing they have great battalions to work with.
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4 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said:
@TeclisGodi dont think the silverhelms are weird they are a necessity. Pretty sure that I would try to fit at least one unit of them into every list I do with the mobility advantage they give me compared to the 6'' acros the rest of my ranks.
@Duke of Mousillon yeh they definitely are important I was saying more for the fact of running a 10 man rather a 5. I wasnt sure if it was too much. It seems like only 5 to me has a harder time killing a 20 sized unit rather than a 10 man but we shall see.
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After some brainstorming I came up with this list. Its a control/MW late game list. It has 3 drops which will help with turn choosing situations on match ups.
2000
Grand Nation - Syar
660 Teclis
260 Dawnriders 10
Battalion - Auralan-Legion 120
140 Scinari Cathalar
240 Wardens 20
120 Wardens 10
280 Sentinels 20
140 Sentinels 10
Endless Spell - Soulsnare Shackles
What do you guys think? The Dawnriders are kind of a weird unit in this list but I feel like since I am going so much control I would need a unit to retake an objective so I don't get pushed too hard in the beginning or they can be a late game objective grabber.
Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion
in Lumineth Realm-Lords
Posted
The more I have discussions with others and the more games people have gotten in with their (proxy) Lumineth the more things start to change in the ideas of list building. This was definitely a thing most/all of us saw coming as text in a book can only mean so much. From what I remember during first discussions was that Teclis was mostly and auto include and that Syar was the best of all Nations (competitively speaking). Now it seems to be tested around Zaitrec with Teclis not always being an auto include. He is a huge center piece in points value that in the end having more models (bodies) tends to be a little more competitive. This is all according to building a 2000 point list. With this being said I am curious on what everyone's thoughts are on playing them or not and how it has progressed since the release of the battletome.