Kirby
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Posts posted by Kirby
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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:
Skyborne Slayers
This is a nice example. Thanks for sharing.
While perhaps not the most effective subfaction for this battalion, i see that Hammers of Sigmar can use both their subfaction ability and their command ability without proximity to a hero. This is the only SE subfaction to do so.
2 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:OBR is the most obvious example. You can absolutely run the army just with a Liege-Kavalos ... the rest of the army is very self-sufficient, primarily because it can spend RDP without being in range of a character. The inability to spend CP except near a character makes other armies essentially unplayable without characters interspersed throughout the army.
Youve hit the nail on the head here. If i cant protect my characters my cos can fall apart quickly.
I dont have any experience with OBR, but this self sufficiency is what im after. I’ll look into this more. Thanks
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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:
It has only one 100-pts hero, who generally only survives for a turn or so,
This is the root of my problem.
I play COS. During my last game vs LRL i fielded 3 sorceresses - 2 on foot, 1 on dragon. I didn’t need the dragon, but i knew 14 wounds would keep her alive for a turn or two. The other two were redundancy.
COS are a high drop army. So without the possibility of first turn, my 5 wound sorceresses were sniped away without achieving anything in the game. This isnt the first time.
2 hours ago, Kirby said:Im much more interested in fielding an vast army than a collection of superheroes, but it seems that without numerous supporting characters and center pieces most armies are a little lackluster.
Let me rephrase this... “i want an army that doesnt require expensive (points) centerpiece models in order to maintain basic functionality. My 5 wound heroes just survive long enough.”
Shield and hide just doesnt cut it against some armies with high quality magic or missile character sniping.
During my game, i happened to recall rules for Free Guild, a precursor to my COS, in GHB 2017.They only had access to two heroes: General on Griffon and General on Foot, both of whom are still available. I never played with them, but their usp seems to be their battle traits that encourage interaction between units not heroes. In particular, Freeguild Great Companies. See below. Sniping characters doesnt remove tactical nuance.
1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:You can certainly build a Cities of Sigmar list full of normal dudes and with only a handful of heroes who are also pretty normal dudes. It would definitely not look like a collection of superheroes. I am not sure that is what you want, though.
Longbeards are actually a good example of what i mean. They have an ability to buff fellow Dispossessed. Likewise Sisters of Thorns can cast magic to buff fellow Wanderers.
My initial question was whether there are factions that can prosper through this kind of inter unit interaction. I dont know other factions as well as my cities.
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Are there any army builds that could be considered effective without character buffs?
Im much more interested in fielding an vast army than a collection of superheroes, but it seems that without numerous supporting characters and center pieces most armies are a little lackluster.
Can you think of a effective list led by the one obligatory non-buffing character - e.g. SE Knight-Questor?I dont want to strip the game of depth. So units buffing units would be fine - see, SE evocators. As are allegiances, factions and battalions.
Any ideas?Am i missing the obvious - a 400 clanrat build?
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As mentioned above by @LuminethMage the two benefits of the bladelords are: reliable damage output; and their bodyguard abilities.
An unmodifiable 5 out of 6 wounds being shrugged is huge.
As a COS player, I'd much rather take my chances with charging them than the wardens, because again I can accurately predict cost/benefit.
I'd love to see <GUARDIAN> become a keyword in 3.0. Perhaps, unit size restrictions would have to apply similar to the COS Honoured Retinue
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1 hour ago, Boar said:
Just one thing if you are thretened by double I wouldn.t generally retreat them. As once in combat, unless shot/magicked off they would force cavalry to either fight them again or retreat. And since you are retreating after they hit you Grphhounds screening capacity would be diminished and I guess you wouldn.t be able to protect anything really.
Sounds about right, thanks
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2 hours ago, Boar said:
also have dark elves, so what I would do is screen with units of 10-corsairs and simply sacrifice them. Darkshards are to valuable for that IMO.
Yeah, i think you are correct here.
One thought ive been pondering is whether to use Gryphhounds as a screen. i know this would eat in to my SE stormhost allowance, but at 3 wnds they avoid the worst of Deathly Furrows.If my calculations are correct charging dawn riders will on average only cause 5 or 6 wounds to the gryphounds, despite their lack of save. Thats only 1/3 of a unit. meanwhile, they can easily wipeout 10+ corsairs/darkshards/handgunners.
Even i lose two models to battleshock on bravery 6, i guess i could tar pit them for two turns.
Retrearing just outside 3” after my melee attacks is an option. While this would leave the hounds vulnerable to another charge, it could save a lot of damage if the LRL get a double turn.
Do you think this would be viable or would i be better sticking with handgunners?
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17 hours ago, Aelfric said:
My first thought was either Sisters of the Watch or Handgunners. Both have a stand and shoot when charged, so should be the perfect foil to Dawnriders, who are not particularly tanky. I would suggest units of twenty Sisters, but handgunners are cheap enough to also work as chaff in units of 10.
I mainly have D.Elves and have been using multiple msu darkshards that can absorb a wave of attacks each. I guess overwatch handgunners are the sweet spot between weak corsairs and more expensive sisters.
15 hours ago, Boar said:So he takes first turn, and does that? How many Dawnriders does he use, in what unit sizes? What models do you have?
Its not necessarily an alphastrike issue. Although it could be. Nor is he overwhelmingly me with too many units of the dawnriders. Its just i dont feel i can manoeuvre fast enough to react.
I favor Anvilgard or Tempest Eye. I have most of the current D.Elve range, except for the drakespawn knights. Are the knights tanky enough to hold a line? The pts cost per model seems expensive ill need more than msu just to shield
13 hours ago, Landohammer said:So I have played quite a few games vs Dawnrider (and sentinel) heavy LRL and I have found the below methods work great for mitigating their damage...
There’s a lot of good ideas here, 🙏🏻
As above, I guess i will have to double down on overwatch screens in the short term. shining companies, in conjunction with protection of Hysh / Teclis, make it all the harder to thin the ranks before they charge.
i know there are strong opinions over the points cost of LRL, but i dont want them to be nerfed too hard. Perhaps, if speed of hysh broke shining company that would be enough.
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I'm starting out with cities, and my main opponent is running magic-heavy Lumineth. With so many wizards, I have to try and prioritise trying to dispell the more destructive or defensive LRL spells. The Vanari units meanwhile tend to have a free reign to cast whatever they like unchallenged.
In particular, Im unsure about how to deal with the mounted Dawnriders who cast speed of Hysh on themselves, sprint 28", and shred my infantry lines with their Deathly Furrows ability.
SpoilerSpeed of Hysh: Casting Value 5. Give a unit wholly within 18″ double speed.
Deathly Furrows: At the start of the combat phase, you can either add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons, but it can only target units that have a Wounds characteristic of 1 or 2 and do not have a mount, or you can add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons, but it can only target units that have a Wounds characteristic of 1 and do not have a mount.
So far my solution has been to try and use chariots as chaff, but frankly the Dawnriders are too fast and just dance around them. And, when they do get in combat the chariots dont actually do enough damage to slow the Dawnriders down. I tried a dreadlord on black dragon but it struggles to keep up, too.
Any other suggestions appreciated.
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On 1/20/2020 at 3:34 AM, Nicholunch said:
pic
Is you hurricanum mounted on the back of a KO frigate? Cool idea.
Would you share a close up, please?
Im curious about picking one up for Anvilgard, but the original model just doesnt do it for me
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These are sensational. Every one of these models is a cracker. Also, the witcher... Wow!!
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Hi, im a new player looking for feedback.
This is my first attempt at a Tempest Eye list. Its a 1500pt core that leaves 500pts for fun stuff in bigger games
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Black Ark Fleetmaster (60)
Sorceress (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Strike of Eagles
Sorceress (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Celestial Visions
Anointed (100)
Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
Units
30 x Black Ark Corsairs (240)
- Vicious Blades & Wicked Cutlasses
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
Total: 1500 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121I envisage a moving castle: the hurricanum is surrounded by the Phoenix Guard and Annointed; flanked by darkshards and sorceresses. Corsairs are a chaff / murder line in front and the guard shield the rear.
i already have the corsairs and a unit of darkshards. So, im very keen to work these in somehow.
🙏🏻
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So, are these broken realm box sets out combat patrol equivalent? Do you think SC will be phased out? Alternatively, are they instead of battleforces? Or am i all doom and gloom - should i put all three in my list for santa?
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8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
These should all be humans on the same scale.
Thanks for the comparison. I think they would be fine as long as im consistent. If 100% of the human infantry are from the same range it would work. Doesnt matter too much if the elves and dwarfs have different proportions.
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8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
A kit like the Greatswords is also barely edging out good due to the extra bits lifting a box of Guards, but kits like the Guard and Handgunners are so low quality that they can't stack up. They are way lower quality than sets like the Warlord Landsknecht kits, while being about double the price per model.
How well do the Landsknecht fit with CoS in terms of scale? Would they look out of place on GW bases? My CoS SE already make my COS elves look tiny!
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On 10/4/2020 at 3:56 PM, Rodiger said:
I've just finished painting my latest blood bowl team. At the moment it's taking me a month for each due to limited time and currently not enjoying painting as much as normal.
As soon as they were done though, they went straight in a box and into my cupboard, as with the other blood bowl teams I've painted this year that have also taken a similar time. I can't put them in my display case as I have one and it is full. I just find it so disappointing to spend so long painting something then put it in a box and it doesn't get viewed for ages, it almost feels like why did I bother in the first place.
Anyone else got any disappointing hobby moments?
Disappointing moments... how about every time i finish a model and the result doesnt match the Eavy Metal standard in my head.
I recently found some really good miniature paint stripper ( 99% isopropyl alcohol). But it’s been both a boon and a bane. When ive made a mistake, or felt unsatisfied with a finished product ive stripped and started again. Its easy to lose motivation when attempting the same model for the umpteenth time. Ive made an effort to increase my painting time in the last couple of months, but ive probably achieved less per hour than ever before.
Not to get too Marie Kondo on you, but are you painting teams that ‘spark joy’ or is more about completionism - All the teams for bloodbowl, all the expansions for Blackstone etc ? With a new season boxset coming this year, i guess there’s going to be a lot more new teams in the near future..
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I think i understand the suggestions for a single roll to resolve to Hit and to Wnd quickly. However, i dont think the granularity of d10 results would be enough. My reason buffs.
Like many players, the first aos warscroll i ever saw was for SE Liberator. I looked at the weapons profiles and thought they were unnecessary 3+, 4+ vs 4+, 3+. Surely they produce the same result! However, as i discovered the importance of buffs, i learned that stategic choices have to be made. Will i buff to hit or to Wnd ? It starts to make a difference both strategically and statistically. Sure, we could similarly buff / debuff both attacker strength and defender toughness, but that seems much less elegant to me.
So, my suggestion (a drum roll, please...)
1) increase the number of (-) / natural 6s required for to Hit, to Wnd, and to Save
Two natural 6s and a natural 1 would be requires for a goblin with (-) to Hit (-) to Wnd to wound our friend the dragon with an un-rendable (-) to Save. Thats a 1/216 chance of damage.2) Meanwhile, improve save rolls in general, while simultaneously increasing the range of rend. 1+ Save would still fail on natural 1, but there would be more granular variance.
TLDR: (-) values, a wider range of rend, and better save rolls would allow for more distinction between the potency of units and weapons.Importantly, all that is required is an overhaul of warscrolls, not core rules nor irregular dice.
What am i missing?
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Thanks @Dolomedes for the thoughtful feedback. I've taken a few days to digest your advice, but I feel I'm hitting a brick wall.
First, the positives
On 9/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, Dolomedes said:Making a one drop army and using the darkwalkers great fray is an incredibly powerful move. Your list only has the one hero (the GBS), and against a lumineth list it's probably not going to be very effective.
QuoteLeave a hero to camp at your herdstone to generate primordial call points (most players put 10 ungors there too to be sacrificed)... Being able to summon screens, objective grabbers, ranged attacks and pinning units is where the real mastery of the Beastmen is developed.
On 9/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, Dolomedes said:Run a Bray Shaman with one of your Brayherd units to effectively make them cavalry. The darkwalker command trait grants an additional +1 to run rolls, so if you pair up a bray shaman general with your Bestigors they get a 9" move with +2 to run with a charge on top. Bestigors do an additional attack on the charge to boot.
A nice little tactic is to run your Bray Shaman with your Bestigors for the movement buff, get them into charge range, and then use 'Savage Encirclement' on the Bray Shaman to get them off the table and away from the fighting.Reframing Bray Shaman supported Bestigors as cavalry is a great idea.
SpoilerClarification for my benefit 😉
Bestigors supported by a Great Bray Shaman can run and then charge an average of 21.5"
6" Movement (Bestigor Unit)
+3" Bestial Vigor (GBS ability. GBS < 12")+1” to Run - Banner Bearer (Bestigor unit)
+1” to Run - Nomadic Leader (Darkwalker Cmd trait, GBS General < 12”)+2d6 charge
= Averaging 21.5” (9”+ 2" + 3.5” + 7”)
So, starting my list again from the top. I'll need 2 heroes and some sacrificiallambsgoats. For the time being, I'll stick with Shaman for my anti-magic herd. Thats 260pts down.
On 9/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, Dolomedes said:I love the idea of taking the Ghorgon to eat unit champs, but unfortunately like many other Beastmen players this will probably set you up for disappointment.
On 9/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, Dolomedes said:You've read the 'Soul Eater' ability of the Cygor, but the second ability deserves a mention here. 'Ghostsight' gives you re-rolls to hit against wizards. As I understand it, the entire Lumineth army are wizards. In a match up against Lumineth, the Cygor is even more terrifying then you first mentioned - they get re-rolls to hit army wide. Those D6 damage boulders are usually pants because of the 4+ to hit, but against lumineth they're killer! This re-roll also applies to melee, so if they want to engage the Cygors head on, they're still a pretty scary prospect. Against almost any other army, the Cygor just isn't worth taking, but against Lumineth, they'll 'eat them for breakfast'.
With 2 Bray Shaman and 2 Ghorgons, I'd start off with a potential 6 unbinds. It seems that, at 1000pts, I don't need the functionality of the Phantasmorgia of Fate battalion (all units can unbind if caster is <9"). However, more importantly, I lose my 1-drop, extra cmd pt on turn 1, and an extra cmd point on 4+ in my hero phase due to the secondary Knowing Eye artefact.
So, I'm left with the following. I've never run or seen BoC on the table, but doesnt seem to be an effective army. There just aren't nearly enough boots on the ground. And, I'm not sure summoning could make up for thisSpoilerAllegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Darkwalkers
Leaders
Great-Bray Shaman (100) (General supports Bestigor Calvary)
Great-Bray Shaman (100) (Herdstone Hero)
Battleline
10 x Bestigors (120) (Bestigor Calvary)
10 x Bestigors (120) (Bestigor Calvary)
10 x Ungors (60) (Herdstone Sacrifice)
Behemoths
Cygor (140)
Cygor (140)
Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (180)
Total: 960 / 1000
My dilemma is what to cut from the first 1000pts. Each element cost between 140-180pts.- GBS and Ungors to sacrifice for summoning.
- A battalion for 1 drop, and several cmd points throughout the game.
- Cygor #2
Usually, this would seem an obvious choice - See you later Cygor! The threat they present to a small lumineth army seems significant, but are they two many eggs in one basket. Also, there aren't any significantly cheaper battalions. Finally, the previous post offer a strong argument for the herdstone summoning.
As I said in the original post, this was meant to be an anti-magic / lumineth army that didnt break the bank. But for now, I'm stumped. 🤷♂️
EDIT: After the original 1000pts, what units should I prepare for summoning. ALL OF THEM! would be great, but what should I prioritize
Any advice appreciated!
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Could someone let me know the dimensions of the Balewind Vortex, please?
I’d like to know the diameter of the base and the platform. Also, the height of the platform from the tabletop.
Would the Stormcast Dias Arcanum work as proxy if i were to increase the height?
Thanks
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Hey,
I’ve been thinking about picking up a small anti magic list that will mainly play against Lumineth. I’d like to start at 1000pts. As you may know LRL are all about magic. Also, their Scinari Callathar has a nasty trick whereby she can throw LRL loses back at you during the battleshock phase.
Things I learned today:
Cygors eat Lumineth for Breakfast. Cygors can attempt to unbind two spells, and the caster receives 1mw if the unbind is successful. Meanwhile, the leader of the LRL battleunits are wizards with 1 wound if their unit has 5+ models. So, a successful unbind will in fact kill the unit leader, remove a special ability or attack, and reduce the units MW output by half. Sounds good so far.
Phantasmagoria is a needlessly difficult word to spell.
All units from this battalion can attempt one unbind if <9” from the caster. Units gain the Tzeentch keyword and can be used in either army.
ORGANISATIONA Phantasmagoria of Fate consists of the following units: • 1-4 BEASTS OF CHAOS HEROES in any combination • 3-9 units chosen in any combination from the following list: Bestigors, Gors, Tzaangors, Ungors, Ungor Raiders • 0-9 following list: Bullgors, Centigors, Dragon Ogors, Tzaangor Enlightened, Tzaangor Skyfires, Tuskgor Chariots • 0-2 Cygors or Ghorgons in any combination
Brayherd can alpha strike. And Warherd and Thunderscorn too!!!Breyherd Ambush battle trait allows 1 in 2 Breyherd units to deploy <= 6” of an edge, and >9” from the enemy at the end of the first movement phase.
Bestial Cunning command trait allows 50% of units in reserve to wait until their second movement phase.
Darkwalkers have got the moves.Shadow Beasts ability from the Darkwalkers sub faction offers same functionality as Bestial Cunning, AND Warherd and Thunderscorn gain Ambush ability.
Savage Encirclement cmd ability allows player to remove a unit that is <9” from enemy at the end of a movement turn. They may redeploy anywhere that is >9” from the enemy.
What I’d like to build:Two start collecting boxes and a herdstone gives me a one drop army.
QuoteAllegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Darkwalkers
Leaders
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- General
Battleline
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
Units
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
Behemoths
Cygor (140)
Ghorgon (160)
Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (180)
Total: 960 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 73
What I’d like to do:
- Maintain minimal size units to maximize ambush and minimize effects of battleshock
- Take the first turn due to 1 drop.
- Discourage Lumineth battleline wizards with a deep strike cygor, and a deep strike ghorgan’s Swallow Them Whole ability (remove a model that is <1” after combat phase if roll equal or higher than their wnds - that’s a 1+ for wardens and sentinels, 2+ for dawnriders).
- Flatten the LRL Scinari Callathar in one go with a lucky shot from a cygor boulder. Cause otherwise she will seize upon low bravery.
- Deploy one unit of bestigors near the herdstone to avoid battleshock if things don’t goto plan in turn 1.
- use 2nd unit of bestigors to deep strike any LRL Sentinels that are away from the main deployment area. Then, if any survive teleport them back with Savage Encirclement.
It all seems too easy! Well... probably not. What am I missing here? Is this possible? How could I build upon this first 1000pts
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1 hour ago, Saxon said:
I absolutely loath playing games against armies with minimum battleline.
Don’t get me wrong. I want to see balanced armies on the board too. However, the restriction bothers me. I’d rather incentivise than tax players.
Off the top of my head, you could argue that regular troops need more instructions than elites. So, Battleline could generate cmd points, for example.
I think some players would double down on battleline in order to guarantee a stream of cmd points, others may forsake them for a small band of elite heroes.I feel similarly about the relationship about battalions, artefacts, and turn priority. i believe they could be successfully unpacked.
Artefacts could have a points cost.
Players could bid cmd pts for turn 1, rather than counting drops.
Battalions would then be left to provide flavor and their own abilities.
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I dont know how competitive they would be, but a CoS: Tempest Eye has 9 different cavalry/ chariot units, 9 mounted heroes, not to mention gyrocopters, steam tanks and access to stormcast cavalry and the Kharadron boats.
The question is what kind of cavalry do you want to play? Are you looking for glorious massed lines charging with their lances held high, or do you want to have the speed and agility harry your opponent while remaining just out of their reach?
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7 hours ago, BaylorCorvette said:
You don't happen to be live in Houston, TX do you? Back at the start of COVID, I spent a few weeks writing the rules for a hybrid game between AoS and D&D. Basically AoS rules but each player controls one custom Hero that they outfit similar to D&D. I brought in a lot of D&D stats and stuff into the game as well. But we still follow the traditional Hero, Movement, Shooting, Charge, Combat phase of AoS. The main thing is, a few of my friends are super casual AoS players, so we still use a lot of the AoS rules that they're familiar with but we're playing a story driven cooperative game. My buddies and I are 45+ hours into a campaign and so far we've been loving it.
This sounds like an awesome project. 45 hours in means you’ve built something fun. Thats not always easy with hybrid rulesets
Im in Korea. So, just about as far away from Texas as possible
Would you consider sharing your rules? I’d love to have a look through.
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Looking at the new warcry catacombs, i suddenly realised how much id like a new AOS dungeon crawler. Blackstone doesnt tick my boxes unfortunately.
Have there been any rumors of a AOS Warhammer Quest? i know it may be a while yet, but any theories when we may see one?
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4 hours ago, JPjr said:
bin the Grand Alliance system.
I appreciate the simplicity of the GA system, but also the depth of matricies. Matricies are a less elegant solution, however, and perhaps less accessible for new players. Also, trading one set of restrictions may feel good in the short term, but once the dust settles we‘ll crave more freedom again. So why not discard both?
Atm, there’s no reason not to pick from across different GA in open or narrative games. This problem only applies to matched play. If we must have form of restrictions, GA or matrix, GHB: Matched Play is the right place for them.
Personally, if i wanted to shake up list building, i’d start by getting rid of battleline requirements. I mean, how do battleline requirements benefit players’ enjoyment?
If we really do need battleline, GW could add a battleline keyword to warscrolls and incentivise their inclusion with something like command points. An even easier solution would be to simply cut their point/monetary cost. If they were cheaper players would be more likely, but not compelled to use them.
I dont think this would be game-breaking.
An effective army without character buffs?
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I'm out of thanks for the day, but appreciate all the ideas. Please keep them coming ^^