Celestantpants

Actually Nautical, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle between what myself and others think, and what you think. I probably attribute to much blame to GW listening to Stormcast haters, and you probably attribute too little. Either way, it's a horrible combination of incompetence and Stormcast hater catering/panicking.

Honestly, I was going to buy dragons for the cool factor at least, but if they are nerfing them AGAIN, I might forgo just on principle. Seriously, a war scroll change/nerf just a little while after they finally release IN ADDITION to the point hikes we already got on them? **** off GW. Pardon my language, but seriously. If all this happens (nerfing all our good units in addition to the dragons so soon) I'm not sure how anyone can argue against GW treating Stormcast worse than other armies and catering to loud anti stormcast haters. Because yes, they actually do care what the loudest voices say via Twitter, forums, Reddit, YouTube vids, discord etc. And what do the loudest voices say? You guessed it. Also, does anyone really think the 5-10 point drops we might possibly see on vanquishers or other terrible units will really compensate for point hikes on our units with war scrolls that are actually good? Truly? Because if we get any points drops at all it will likely be to the tune of that. I'll eat my words and happily admit I was wrong if they massively nerf the worst offenders in other armies, and make better war scrolls for our terrible units. But honestly, those things are unlikely to happen. One last thing, the argument that they nerf our good units to make for better internal balance so our terrible units get played more is silly. If they nerf all our units with good war scrolls to be terrible for the points so our terrible units can compete with them, where does that leave us? With an army where everything is terrible in comparison to other armies. Much like before the battletome was released, coincidentally.

.....so dragons are getting a third nerf? And our only truly good units (aside from grandhammer annihilators) are getting nerfed this early into the books life? Units that are already pricey, like most things in our book? What did they see that we had a few tourny lists that went 4-1 and decided that was too good? WOW. This, again, just shows how unfairly Stormcast get treated. I challenge anyone to find examples of GW doing something like this to literally any other army this quickly or early, especially with such a lack of data to support said nerfs. Yes, it is important to see what GW does to other armies, but if they don't get nerfed massively (and I suspect they won't) then this is a joke. This has to be the worst battletome release I've ever seen, and honestly it seems that GW only cares what non stormcast players think. GW: "What's this? Stormcast are suffering and have been a bad army for awhile now? Dont worry Stormcast players, here is a new cool battletome." Non stormcast players: "What's this? Stormcast armies are going 4-1 sometimes and might be a challenge to play? NERF!!!!!!!" GW: "Don't worry everyone, we will nerf the Stormcast battletome into ground within a month or two in an unprecedented move we won't replicate with your armies, and take any fun options they have and dumpster them. Dont worry, after the winter FAQ Stormcast will go back to being terrible as we will have nerfed every single good unit they have aside from annihilators, gotta at least throw them some kind of bone right? Don't worry too much about the annihilators though, the tourney packs have missions that will nerf them. We got you boo!" It honestly isn't fun being GW's whipping boy everyone, and that is exactly what has been happening.

Ok, silly question, but when are dragons up for pre-order?

I do agree that it's nice they didn't do it a month after release and bilk people out of money. However, that still doesn't address why they said they need more data to address armies that have been broken for half a year, armies that have units that are just as obviously broken as dragons, yet when it comes to the dragons suddenly no data is needed. Also, bear in mind this is the second nerf to dragons, the first being menagerie getting gutted. Again, with no data to back it up, and fairly early after the tome was released.

Hey Nautical, can you explain to me why GW says that they are waiting to release the balance FAQ to allow for more data first before they make changes, despite obviously broken armies, but then nerf dragons with no data? Why is that? Also, I never said dragons don't need an adjustment. If you read my posts you'd see that the main point is they are not treating Stormcast the same as other armies, hence the whole not waiting for data thing. So saying that we just don't want the dragons nerfed feels a bit disingenuous. My point is this: if GW is going to pre nerf overturned models without a faq, then they should do it for everyone, not just Stormcast. It is crazy that they did this to dragons while letting certain other armies go untouched for so long. It's especially crazy to then say they are waiting to release the balance FAQ till there is more data. This really gives the impression of trying to appease loud voices that hate Stormcast. So did dragons deserve a nerf? Yes. Should they have treated it the same as every other army and waited for more data if that is their stance? YES. If not, then they should do an emergency patch to many other armies too. Otherwise it really does come off as unfair. I personally just want them to treat Stormcast the same as other armies, which clearly isn't happening.

Stormcast should get the same treatment as other armies when swings of the nerf bat are being considered, such as oh, I don't know, nerfing a unit several times before it even releases with zero data to support it whilst also saying you are waiting for more data before releasing the balance FAQ. Funny that.

Them thanking everyone for that feedback 100% confirms that they catered to Stormcast hate. It literally Cannot be argued anymore. People hate Stormcast and yelled loudly about it on the internet so Stormcast got nerfed BEFORE the problem units came out in an unprecedented move with zero data to back it up. Honestly, people should be up in arms about it. Again, if they did this to literally any other faction it would be different. All I, and I assume most other people with negative reactions want, is for them to treat us like any other faction. That is not what has happened or likely will happen though. Think about: - GW holds off on the big balance FAQ because they want more data despite having months of tourney data on offending armies and having many people tell them about said armies. - GW nerfs dragons several times HARD with literally no data to support it. - GW literally thanks Stormcast haters for demanding it. Explain that incongruity please. How can it be interpreted as anything other than Stormcast hate catering? Again, GW waits for more info to nerf armies that are clearly problem armies that have months of data to show how broken they are. GW then nerfs Stormcast units before they are released with zero data to support it and thanks the people that made the suggestion. One of these things is not like the other....

I mean, is anybody really surprised? This again just confirms that GW caters to the Stormcast hate crowd. It can't be denied. If they did this to other factions then it would be different. But they haven't. Other factions have been running roughshod over the game for awhile now and nothing happens. Stormcast get a new book and their best things get nerfed before they are even out with zero tourney data to back it. Seems very much like a knee ****** reaction to all the Stormcast hate. Honestly it might be better to play a different faction with less haters, at least then your book will be valid for more than a month.

Let me just say that I don't think Stormcast are currently bad. We are not bad at all. At no point did I ever say the book doesn't have power. I feel that prime electrid is right though, a few points changes and we are bounced from competitive. Anyway, my main point is that it is crazy that we had a nerf on menagerie with literally no data to support it. Before the models are even out. It's crazy and unprecedented and reeks of appeasing stormcast hate. Again, I'm not happy about translocation, but I understand why they did it, I get it. Cycle of the Storm was GW being GW with terrible wording, so I understand and probably even agree with that one. Would have been nice if Cycle wasn't so weak, but I digress. The menagerie thing though is not ok at all. Imagine the outcry if they nerfed other models from other armies with zero data to back it up and before the models were even out. The internet would be busting out the torches and pitch forks.

Uh huh. How come Stormcast are the only army getting pre nerfed? Also, I'm not against nerfing the trait....i just want to wait for data to make sure it's warranted. Like literally. Every. Single. Other. Army. PERIOD.

The menagerie change is proof that GW caters to the anti stormcast hate. It can't be disputed anymore. Let me explain. The changes to cycle of the storm and translocate are dumb, let me say first off. I don't agree with them. That said, I can see an argument being made for the changes to both of those based on similar abilities and poor wording issues. Neither of those things applies to menagerie. The menagerie change is a balance change straight up. A balance change based on NO data. At all. It's a nerf to models that aren't out yet before anyone has had a chance to play them. They are nerfing that trait simply because the anti stormcast brigade cried really hard about it. Let's take 40k for instance. Nerfs to various armies don't occur until they skew tournies badly or put up silly win numbers. Armies in AOS are broken for extended periods of time with no nerf. The cry is typically, "let's let the meta play out and see if nerfe are needed." Which is valid. Now stormcast get something that looks strong and it gets nerfed BEFORE THE OFFENDING MODELS ARE RELEASED WITH OBVIOUSLY NO DATA TO SUPPORT SAID NERF. It's literally unprecedented. It clearly happened because some people believe that Stormcast cannot and should not have nice things. Its stupid and unfair, quite frankly. Especially when you factor in the translocation change. Now, before anyone says it: is this post salty? Sure is! Is the salt warranted though? SURE. IS.

Unpopular opinion: Stormcast are cool and deserve to have fun and effective rules like other armies.

The stormcast hate in the community is real. How dare stormcast have a good tool. I suppose some will only be happy if stormcast end up with nothing interesting ever.

How sure are we that translocate will get faq'd?

Yeah, this is quite silly. Even if the production issues are true for dragons, where is everything else? Also, I don't want to hear excuses for GW. I know the production and shipping issues aren't their fault, but the lack of communication is absolutely on GW. Unacceptable. Period.

Nevermind, found it.

Silly question, but can someone tell me where in the tome it says what counts as battle line for each stormhost? I can't seem to find it for some reason.

This Stormcast release or lack thereof is quite silly. I know the pandemic is causing issues, I get it. Seriously though, perhaps a formal statement from GW would be in order? Like "We know many of you are frustrated by the lack of stormcast releases, so are we, but with pandemic, etc." That, along with a hopeful roadmap that they can say is subject to change due to the pandemic, would be helpful. Certainly better than stealth edits and silence. Listen GW, pretending a problem doesn't exist and refusing to directly address it simply creates ill will with customers.

Yup, as I said before, it's quite silly at this point. I know the pandemic has caused issues, but some of this is on GW. Let's be honest, being competent is not one of their strong suits. Was also only half joking before about getting the last units from our new book a month before 4th edition. I mean, would it honestly surprise anyone at this point? Also, what are the chances GW nerfs the dragons in points before they actually get a release for them?

Yeah, I understand the pandemic is messing up the release, but this delay is getting absurd. Perhaps all our models will finally be released about a month before 4th edition launches? To be fair though, it DID take GW a loooong time to release all the new models for space marines after their new codex was launched.

Cool, that's what I thought, thanks!

So krondys jaws wound on a +1...does this mean that while he is top profile he auto wounds? Or is it strictly to counter -1 to wound abilities?

What are the primes attacks and abilities Like? Thanks by the way!

Any info on the Celestant prime?