Marcvs
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Posts posted by Marcvs
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32 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Yes, both armies were presented in TOW articles, but just as lore blurb (hey look, ice witches weapons are made of ice, and they have bears) or some form to build hype for Total Warhammer 3, or just to show the collaboration going on between both companies.
I'd have to dig out the precise articles to give you links but no, it was a bit more specific than that
EDIT: there you go https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/18/grand-cathay-is-mapped-for-the-first-time-in-warhammer-the-old-world/
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5 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:
A question that always fascinates me.... why did you choose your army (or armies)? In the flesh, I often ask my fellow generals this, and often the answers are rather intriguing.
Was it the background? The models? The way they play? Because they're more likely win you a game? Or.... ?
Please do indulge me.
I choose Stormcast because (I try to put them in order of their importance for my choice):
1) I was told they were the "posterboys" so they were safe from any "squatting" and their rules, while not necessarily "good", would aways be current*
2) I read the lore and liked it more than other factions -in short, their tragic hero vibe
3) I read that they had a large roster and you could keep exploring different playstyles while only collecting one army**
4) I saw I could pick up decently sized collections for relatively cheap on the 2nd hand market
*in hindisight, I hadn't conidered how this could also be a curse, sometimes feeling the hobby-fatigue of having to buy and paint new models to stay "current"
**looking at my 20k points, I had underestimated what "only collecting one army" would entail-
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Thanks to a lucky star alignment, I got to play another game on Saturday night. 1500pts of my Winter Court (Wood Elves) vs my clubmate's freshly printed bretonnians. We played on an AoS-sized table and it was another very good experience: we played 5 rounds of what I felt was a relatively balanced game (even though the points at the end tilted in my favour, with a victory 1000-300 before counting the Watchtower) in less than 2 hours. More thoughts on the game and a couple of pictures in the spoilers.
I'm still kind of amazed of how the game plays smoothly, considering that yes, we were both experienced wargamers, but none of us had ever played WHFB/T9A before. Sure enough, we had our laptops out to search the core rulebook but still. We discussed this afterwards, and we shared the feeling that a) in the end, while movement rules are more restrictive, you're moving less "stuff" around and b) when it's your turn you just get to play.
1500points is more or less where I wanted to stop before, but now I am tempted to try 2k...
Now coming to the game itself
SpoilerWe were playing the watchtower. I knew my opponent would give me first turn because he wanted to pray, so I deployed quite aggressively with all the bows in range. I killed a couple of knights and placed an eagle on the left flank to lure the pegasus knights away from the centre
The opponent sent everything forward, killed the eagle with the pegasi, but that was it. I shot some more knights, charged the pegasi with the glade riders on the left (bad idea
) and used the eagle on the right to redirect the knights of the realm and set up the charge of my wild riders. I also moved the small unit of wardancers (the one without Shadowdancer) to screen the rangers on the left from the knight of the realms. My shooting finished the graal knights (sad trombone)
In my opponent t2 the pegasi killed the glade riders on the left, the knights of the realm (with prophetess lvl 4) killed the eagle on the right, and the knights of the realm on the left slammed into the wardancers, only killed one (-1 to hit dance ftw) but I rolled a 12 on morale and they ran away 🙄 still, they ended up out of position to chase them down, with my archers on the flank (who were also hidden from the pegasi by a forest).
In my t3 my wild riders charged the knights of the realm on the right, but couldn't do much against a 3+/5+/5+. Still they killed some and gave ground -not great considering how much charging is impactufyl and they also lost frenzy. At this point I wasn't feeling too great. Still, I shot some infantry who used some special ability not to flee, and that was it.
My opponent brought down his general (a duke on hyppogryph) on my scouts in the centre, obliterating them and leaving the table. The pegasi came to the centre. The knights of the realm had a surprisingly bad round of combat vs the non-charging non-frenzied wild riders so that fight was a draw.
In my t4 I brought the glade riders on the left into the knights of the realm to help the wild riders and finished them (and the prophetess). My 6 wardances + shadowdancer charged the knights of the realm on the left together with my general, killing them all. I also finished killing the infantry in the centre. In my opponent's t4, he charged his general into my Glade Lady general, but she was kitted for that (-2 to hit in challenges) so they ended up trading blows for 3 combat phases. The pegasus knights charged the wardancer + shadowdancer, won the combat by 1, and I rolled another 12 for morale (😆). In my t5 they rallied and just put themselves between the pegasi and my general, I started moving my remaining cavalry on the right to go hunt the archers. In his t5 my opponent considered his options, decided against charging the pegasi into the wardancers, rolled another round of combat against my general, didn't do a single wound and we stopped there.
And here's the new stuff I added to the Winter Court in the meantime
SpoilerA grumpy Treeman (what a struggle to fit it on 50x75mm
)
A couple more archers recycled from ASOIAF (can't have too many archers)
and finally my favourite, a Glade Lady on Great Stag (or at least, that's what the dwarf who sold her the mount said it is!)
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37 minutes ago, Deakz28 said:
Probably for the best
probably, still the magnitude of changes that the Fusiliers got in the very short time span of the BT life is pretty staggering, the kind of stuff which justifies arguments about "pump and dump" tactics to sell models (which I generally find unconvincing)
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2 hours ago, Goatforce said:
I think this edition the tomes started fairly good
It is of course entirely a matter of preference but the blandness of the SCE battletome (my only faction) is one of the reasons why I didn't enjoy v3 very much. I see the talk about indexes and think "well I have played with an index already for 3 years" (or, as I call it, a stack of warscrolls): a single (real) allegiance ability and subfactions so shallow they only really matter for which battleline option/named character they open up.
End of the sad rant.
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2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:
In my case, it is the aesthetic of the scenery that was released with the 3rd edition. The buildings were funded by the Dawnbringers crusades. Ofc, there are plenty of buildings out there, but for me, it is the little details that point out to the Mortal Realms the ones that make them worth it.
I don't know about Dawnbringers specific, but there's quite a lot of stuff with clear references to AoS aesthetics, like this Skyport
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiredworldstudio/zilvren-skyhold/description
or several of the sets from Dark Fantastic Mills
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1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
Also, it’s 550 pts in a box, not bad at all. Combat Patrols can only dream of such value…
At release (haven't followed changes in points) Combat patrols had an average value around 500pts so not that different. Good summary here:
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54 minutes ago, Ogregut said:
Did you take special arrows on all your units? Been playing with some army lists and trying to figure what goes best with what.
Been thinking the - 2ap on glade guard, no penalty to move and shoot on glade riders and poisoned on waywatchers or maybe the multiple shot ones on them.
Thoughts?
my algorithm is very simple: poison on everybody, multiple shots on characters, -2 ap on characers with the bow of loren (if any). That being said, I can absolutely see the argument for trueflight for glade riders and multiple shots on waywatchers, but my experience is strongly impacted by my only two real games so far having been vs t4 armies
and yes, special arrows on everybody
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I got to play another game with my Winterheart Wood Elves. 1000 points again vs a clubmate's Ogres (again on a 48x48" table). We had to use 2d terrain as we were playing at his place on Friday evening (the dads' hour). We got to learn some more rules and I experimented on purpose with blocking/redirecting charges with the eagles with a 50% success rate
Poisoned arrows and a surprisingly good performance from the Shadowdancer (lucky killing blows really hurt against such expensive models) carried my Wood Elves to the victory.
My opponent had basically two units (Bulls+Wizard and Ironguts+Tyrant) and a lot of points in chracters (almost 50%). My main concern, of course based on an extremely limited experience, is that the Wood Elves playstyle might not be the most engaging for my opponents. I'll see if the feeling is confirmed when we climb to 1500/2000pts and in case I'll just run more melee (and die)
Took a couple of pictures but the lighting was very bad:
Spoiler
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3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Overall, I kind of feel like even though we were in Ghur for the whole edition, I didn't really see much of the realm at all and it didn't really matter very much that we were there.
it didn't help that rules-wise there was also little attention to make it about "the Era of the Beast", other than the first GHB. Battlelines being
imporantdead and Veterans hunting them, small foot characters become tactically unavoidable, and magic getting more powerful do not exactly evoke "Beasts" or even particularly Ghurish characteristics-
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6 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:
We barely got to explore much of Ghur at all and an even more interesting campaign happened over in Lendu through the Flash Point white dwarfs which a lot of people missed.
Yes I feel a big part of the problem is also the delivery channels. I think a) WH+ was a bad idea, putting stuff behind a paywall instead of making it freely available/accept to give money to bigger platforms to reach a wider audience; b) more bite-size pieces of lore should be developed through Warhammer Community, like an interactive map for the area explored by each new GHB, with references to stuff you can buy if you want to read more
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3 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:
That's precisely the point. Togetak suggested that staying in one realm for the duration of the whole edition makes the game boring, and I'm not sure that's a valid argument, since the entirety of WHFB took place on a map much smaller and yet remained engaging.
fair. I think staying in one realm ends up being boring for some because of how they are built, that is as a series of attributes/keywords more than as "places". So, staying in the same one is not like staying in the WHFB world, but rather like staying in a single region of that universe (like: an entire edition in the desert of Khemri).
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52 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:
Which is still bigger than the entire world of TOW.
not to defend the world ot WHFB (which has its own problems and limitations), but saying that "its bigger" means very little in terms of being interesting and engaging.
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9 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:
Yeah me neither, that « rumour » is only a speculation from the HWG
also worth reminding that the speculation in question (which was framed as a "prediction" by THW, so, not even sold as a rumour) was literally the same thing that you are agreeing with
16 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:I don't believe the rumours of BoC dissapearing as a faction. I am more induced to think in a mutation instead.
i.e. Beasts as a faction are staying, their model line is going
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5 hours ago, Ogregut said:
Haha, love a mystery box, please post what you get!!
This was... more than I expected 😮
Spoiler
Not gonna lie, I am so happy.
EDIT: so a rough inventory to complement the potato pics
- 32 glade guards
- 20 eternal guards
- 10 waywatchers
- 10 wardancers
- 5 glade riders
- 5 old wild riders
- 5 new wild riders
- 11 driads
- a couple of heroes in metal (Spellsinger, Waystalker, Highborn noble?, BSB, BSB on horse?)
- two metal treemen
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3 hours ago, Ogregut said:
What armies are people working on?
Anyone else dug out some old projects or found dusty boxes from yesteryear?
Or even printed a new army.
Lets see what's cooking on people's hobby tables!
I have already shared in this thread, but I am working on a Winterheart Wood Elves army (The Winter Court) with the self-imposed challenge of not buying any new models. So it's basically a recycling project for stuff I am not using. The latest addition is a block of Eternal Guard made with Oathmark Elves and ASOIAF Free Folks:
Spoiler
bending my own self-imposed rules just a little bit, today I'll swap some of my Eldars for a box of old-ish Wood Elves from a clubmate. It's basically a mystery box so I'm curious to see what's inside
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Just now, The Lost Sigmarite said:
At least in my experience, people on my club's discord have no problem finding someone to play a game at 1000 points.
Just now, pitzok said:Tbh it's not really an issue at my store, where often there are events taking place at 1000-1500 or even 750 points to boost community engagement. But maybe it's an exception to the rule.
No, it seems my community is the exception
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6 minutes ago, Luperci said:
In my experience most people will be happy just to play a game, a lot of the time people will just match what you have unless they have sticks up their behind about competitive play and fairness.
I am the only player in my club who plays Aos "competitively" and yet 90% of the (casual, relaxed, beer and pretzels) games happening at the club are 2000pts standard matched play rules. It's a bit unfair to immediately jump to negative connotations for players who just prefer to play what they perceive as "the way it's meant to be played"
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5 minutes ago, Luperci said:
I really hope not, but then the solution to that is just to play cheaper point games.
which, if it goes like this edition, will be entirely unsupported and basically require you to write rules and battleplans 😅 plus, as all "solutions" which imply a deviation from what is proposed as the "standard" from GW, this will only work if you play repeatedly with a small group of like-minded players, because otherwise, at least in my experience, good luck posting in the forum/discord of a club looking for a game at 1000 points.
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10 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:
just want to throw down cool models quick
So this is a sore spot for me because it's one of the thing that drove me away from AoS recently: it's not quick at all. It has by far the longest playtime for a "standard" game of all the systems I play. If I am not playing competitively and/or with chess clocks, it easily goes into the 4 hours for a single game. And this is compounded by a sizeable share of that time being downtime and checkpoints. I have come to dread the "start of the hero phase" moment, and in the game of TOW I have played, it felt very refreshing to be moving stuff around almost immediately (and let's not get into the furious pace of Conquest)
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1 hour ago, Landohammer said:
I really don't see a need to overhaul AOS like they did 40k. The game works really well.
1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:Just a few tweaks and cleaning up of faction tactics is all that’s really needed.
Yeah but it would be hard to justify a new edition for a few tweaks
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36 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
We cannot compare a game with 40 years vs one with 10. If we look at the high elves with 10 years I am pretty sure they didn't have either such a solid roster. Probably the ones with 20 years were also lacking a lot of choices.
The problem is that the actual number of entries in the battletome might be close to the one in the army list, it's just that, has it has been mentioned, it's mostly for leaders and similar -and it's difficult not to feel that this is also because of the crazy markup on single heroes/centrepieces
Ok just checked: 23-ish entries in the high elves army list Vs 25 for lumineth on warscroll builder
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2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
He said that on his end the launch of Old World was smaller than that of Horus Heresy 2nd ed, but that a lot of the sales actually went through GW stores directly.
might also be a reaction to past experiences, where FLGS got a very limited amount of product and ordering from GW was the only way to get what you wanted
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I played my first "proper" game this weekend (before we had only played some partial 500pts games to learn the basics). It was 1k pts of my Winterheart Wood elves vs my clumate's Dwarves, on a 48x48" board. No point in going on too long about the game itself, again we were mostly learning (very short summary in the spoiler below). What I wanted to say is that, contrary to my own fears, the game felt very smooth: we were both checking rules for the game and our armies and still finished in 90mins deployment included -granted, my opponent had WHFB experience, but I had none. The caveat is that my army had a lot of skirmishers (very AoS-y) and there were very few combats and those very simple/one sided (eagles vs cannons, my wild riders trampling a poor unit of quarrelers). There was also a second table playing Ogres vs Beastmen at 2000pts and they finished in under 3 hours, so that was reassuring as well.
Mostly, it was lovely to partake in the evident happiness of my clubmates of having back the system and universe which had brought them into miniature gaming. To be clear, all of them had "moved on" and regularly played AoS, 40k, ASOIAF and whatnot but of course there was some evident sentimental attachment to Warhammer Fantasy. Now the question will be if more players who are completely new to the system/universe will join in: we are a small club so it's always a challenge for new systems to find their footing.
Now for the game itself:
SpoilerMy opponent had very few units: 2 characters with 17 longberds, an engineer babysitting 2 cannons, 10 thunderers and 10 quarrelers. My plan going in was to send the eagles on the sides to hunt the cannons or draw fire, use my superior shooting to kill his shooting units, and never engage the longbeards block. And it kind of went like that, thanks also to a streak of 1s to wound for my opponent's cannons:
I got first turn, moved forward the Eagle and the Glade Riders (GR) on the left side followed by the Wild Riders (WR). Killed 1 quarreler (Q) and then forgot the reserve move. On the other side the Waywatchers (WW) and Deepwood Rangers (DR) and the Glade Guards (GG, in my centre) killed 6 thunderers, and the Waystalker (WS) sniped their Champion. The Sisters of the Thorn (ST) moved forward, tried a fireball but failed.
My opponent stayed basically still, shot the cannons hitting 2 units but rolling 1s to wound both times (sad). the quarrelers and thunderers did nothing as they were shooting at -2 or -3 (long range, skirmishers and cover on the right side).
My round 2 the left side advanced again, with the eagle threatening the side of the quarrelers and the cavalry coming from the front. One quarreler died to the GR shooting. On the other side, the DR and WW killed 2 more thunderers and the WS sniped the longbeards champion. The GG shot the longbeards but did nothing. The ST inched forward staying outside the longbeards charge range, shot some javelins, did nothing, and failed the fireball.
My opponent's round 2 he turned the quarrelers around to shoot the eagle, but didn't manage to kill it. Both cannons went into the eagles but incredibly whiffed again the wound roll 😮
My round 3 I charged the WR into the side of the quarrelers, wiping them in one go. The GR got closer to the longbeards and killed one, with the shooting from the right side + a fireball killing a couple more. The right side eagle got into the cannon and remained engaged at the end of the combat.
My opponent's round 3 he shot the cannon into the WR in machine gun mode and wiped them (sad deer noises). Then we decided to call it, played a quick round 4 of shooting on my side killing all the remaining long beards.
Of course this was our first "proper" game so it's not like I am drawing many lessons from this. Skirmishers with shooting seem amazing to deal with shooting units on the other side. On the other hand, I am kind of wary of how the Wood Elves playstyle could be not exactly fun for my opponents, so I am now building a block of Eternal Guard and more cavalary. Those crazy deer ****** were super fun. For lore reasons (my army is from Winterheart) I am staying away from Forest Spirits, but I might want to include them anyway in the future if I want to do more melee.
And my list (basically, what I had already painted or at least on correct bases)
SpoilerWood Elf Realms - [1000pts]
## Main Force [1000pts]
### Characters [179pts]
Shadowdancers [85pts]:
• 1x Shadowdancer: Spear of Loec, Hand WeaponWaystalkers [94pts]:
• 1x Waystalker: Additional Hand Weapon, Asrai Longbow, General, Swiftshiver Shards, Hand Weapon
### Core [250pts]
Deepwood Scouts [75pts]:
• 5x Deepwood Scout: Asrai Longbow, Hagbane Tips, Hand WeaponGlade Guard [70pts]:
• 5x Glade Guard: Asrai Longbow, Hagbane Tips, Hand Weapon
Fire and Flee
Glade Riders [105pts]:
• 5x Glade Rider: Asrai Longbow, Cavalry Spear, Elven Steed, Hand Weapon, Hagbane Tips, Hand Weapon
Reserve Move### Special [361pts]
Sisters Of The Thorn [134pts]:
• 1x Handmaiden of the Thorn
• 1x Standard Bearer
• 5x Sister Of The Thorn: Blackbriar Javelines, Hand Weapon, Steeds of Isha, Hand WeaponWardancers [85pts]:
• 5x Wardancer: Additional Hand Weapon, Hand WeaponWild Riders [142pts]:
• 1x Wild Hunter
• 5x Wild Rider: Hand Weapon, Hunting Spear, Light Armour, Steeds of Kornous, Hand Weapon
### Rare [90pts]
Great Eagles [60pts]Great Eagles [60pts]
Waywatchers [90pts]:
• 5x Waywatcher: Asrai Longbow, Hagbane Tips, Hand Weapon
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) and used the eagle on the right to redirect the knights of the realm and set up the charge of my wild riders. I also moved the small unit of wardancers (the one without Shadowdancer) to screen the rangers on the left from the knight of the realms. My shooting finished the graal knights (sad trombone)
Warhammer - The Old World
in Warhammer: The Old World
Posted
Yes, this is also my conclusion.
To clarify: I agree with all the takes that stress how everybody should keep their expectations low. On the other hand, I think that a company should be criticised for this kind of communication -plans can change, especially on such a long-term project, but it was their choice to communicate so early and in this way, so the lack of clarification before the release of the product makes the whole thing feel a lot like a bait and switch.