l1censetochill

Can you? That's weird - I'm on the website right now, and regardless of my allegiance (Order, SCE, Cities) I only see the 220/280 point Celestial Hurricanum (with/without the Battlemage). Obviously you can put the Hurricanum itself in any Order army that it can be allied into, but I'm not seeing the 300/360 point version anywhere. Regardless, I just don't think the Hurricanum really fits into what most good SCE armies are doing these days - it really feels like it wants to be part of a Death Star formation with several other wizards hiding behind a bunch of screens. I'm sure there's an SCE list out there that could include it, I just don't think it synergizes well with our units and what we're typically trying to do. Those 280 points could potentially be spent on bodies (10 Sequitors) or shooting (2 units of 3 Hurricane Raptors) that we can deep strike instead.

Pretty sure he can't; the Cities book specifically states, "Units updated October 2019; the profiles printed here take precedence over any profiles with an earlier publication date or no publication date," meaning that the new Warscroll is the only one that can be used for a Celestial Hurricanum. And even if the old warscroll were useable, it's not as if any SCE armies were paying 360 for the old Hurricanum either. It's just way too expensive for what it does. If I wanted to use a Hurricanum (and I totally do, the model is awesome!), the only way I think it's going to be viable is in a Cities army, where you can take advantage of all of its keyworded abilities.

For its cost, I feel like the Hurricanum doesn't do much in an SCE army - we don't get the casting bonus (not Collegiate Arcane) nor do we get the bonus to hit (only applies to Cities of Sigmar keyword, and our units only get the keyword in a Cities army). So it's basically a 280 pt single-cast wizard, albeit with the very good Storm of Shemtek ability... and given that we've already got very good ranged options (Longstrikes, Hurricanes, Ballistae) I don't think it adds much. It's a cool model, though, and I've definitely included it in a lot of the Hallowheart lists I've put together - that City is also a good fit for Stormcast (especially Lords-Arcanum) due to the bonuses to cast helping cast Everblaze Comet and charging Prime Electrids, so if you've already got the Hurricanum model I'd probably consider going in that direction.

So I'm also very into the idea of an alpha strike list - I think people are sleeping on its potential in favor of shooting-heavy lists (which will probably also be good, don't get me wrong). But the extra movement on turn 1, along with Swift as the Wind letting your general run and charge and always strike first, does grant some serious alpha strike potential to Tempest's Eye. I also considered Endrinriggers, but wound up going in a different direction - mostly because the idea of an all-cavalry super alpha strike army is my kind of silly fun, and because I love the Stardrake model and would love to have an excuse to use it in games. I'm imagining the following: ----- Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)- General- Celestine Hammer- Trait: Swift as the Wind- Artefact: Ignax's ScalesFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- Shield & Lance- Artefact: Smouldering HelmBattleline5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)Units4 x Concussors (480)BattalionsAetherguard Windrunners (120)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 99 ----- A Stardrake running 17-22 then charging turn 1, with a 2+ save re-rolling 1s on the first battle round, plus permanent always strikes first, is something your opponent just can't ignore. And it's low enough drops (3) that you'll probably be able to go second and hope for the double, allowing you to (potentially) retreat and charge again with whatever made it in turn 1. And if the General makes it in turn 1, he's reflecting mortal wounds on a 4+ (5+ after that) with the Smouldering Helm. Now that's my kind of dumb fun. Is it good? Eh, probably not. But I kind of want to build it anyway.

You've got a lot going on here, which I think is why you aren't getting a lot of traction in asking for replies. You've also got a few units that really don't fit into any of our 'meta' lists, so trying to rearrange stuff to still make a solid list will be tricky. I'll do my best to sort through it, though - keeping in mind that I'm not exactly a list building wizard, as I've only played a few games myself. For starters, it looks like you've got artifacts on each of your heroes - that's not how artifacts work. You get one artifact for your whole army in matched play, plus an additional artifact for each battalion you've got (you don't have any). Next, I'd suggest remodeling your Fulminators into 2 more Concussors. Desolators and Concussors tend to be the best Dracoth choices, and regardless of what you choose they'll be far better as a single unit, so you can give them all the Castellant buff and make them extra tanky. Since you've got 4, Concussors are probably as good/better than Desolators - if you were going for 6, I'd say you for sure want Desolators. So with that out of the way, given that you've already got 10 Liberators and 10 Judicators, you could consider trying the Skyborne Slayers battalion by adding a unit of Protectors, a unit of Decimators, and a Lord Celestant on foot. That'd be two Paladin boxes and a single Lord Celestant, which wouldn't be that much of an outlay to get 2k points on the table. I'd probably go for the following as a final list: ----- Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals LEADERS Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (220) - General - Command Trait : Staunch Defender - Thunderaxe & Thundershield - Mount Trait : Pack Leader Lord-Castellant (120) Lord-Celestant (100) BATTLELINE 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield 5 x Judicators (160) - Skybolt Bows 5 x Judicators (160) - Skybolt Bows OTHER UNITS 5 x Protectors (180) 5 x Decimators (180) 4 x Concussors (480) BATTALIONS Skyborne Slayers (190) TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 108 ---- Not sure what artifacts I'd go with, as this is just an airball list that I came up with on the fly. As an army it would be unlikely to blow anyone off the table, but I could see it being fun to play. No magic or prayers, but very fighty. You've got a sturdy mobile anvil with the LCoD and Concussors, the ability to drop basically anywhere on the table and immediately charge the opponent's vulnerable units with the Slayers battalion, and a bit of ranged support to stand on objectives in the Judicators. Given what you've already got, I think it's probably not a bad list to aim for, as it uses literally everything you've got other than the Lord Relictor. Happy to hear feedback from anyone on it though, as I know others here have talked about using the Slayers battalion before with some success. Thoughts?

I'd be interested to hear more on this point - I agree that in 90% of matchups the opponent will out-drop us, but I'm confused why they would take first turn against this list instead of going second and forcing you to approach. I'm no expert strategist, but if I were playing against a list running Dracolines and a full complement of Ballistas, assuming I outdropped you, I'm pretty sure I'd make you go first every time. Sure, you'll be able to get on objectives, blow up some of my units with a Ballista drop, and maybe long bomb the Dracolines into my lines - but that's way better than basically giving you a free Dracoline charge plus risking losing priority and taking two straight turns of short range Ballista bombardment. And if I get the double turn, I might even be able to clear your screens and get a charge into the Dracolines, which eliminates a good chunk of their damage potential. But that's just my thinking... I'm probably missing something. Why do your opponents always take first turn? What factions are they playing?

First time posting on here, so... greetings all, and thanks for all the wisdom you've imparted so far. I'm still quite new to AOS (just picked up Stormcast in June), but I've spent a lot of time studying the subject and felt like I could potentially chime in on this one - I love the Dracoline models personally and have spent a good amount of time reading and crafting lists that include them. I'm sure others in the thread who have more experience will be able to give better advice, but my feeling is: You may want to consider tweaking the list slightly. Pretty much every Dracoline-heavy list uses the Celestial Vindicators Stormhost, which gives big bonuses on the charge. As such, you should probably include a Heraldor to allow the Dracolines to run and charge. Also, you'd benefit from swapping out the Arcanum on Gryph Charger for the Arcanum on Dracoline - the Pride Leader trait makes your Evos on Dracolines more consistent, and the Command Ability offers more synergy. From there you're probably okay, though it could still be fine tuned a bit. I'd consider dropping one Celestar and swapping out the Sequitors for Liberators (Liberators are bad, but minimum units probably aren't going to hold up in a real fight either way) to get back some points, and putting in Chronomantic Cogs (to help ensure you make the charge) and Everblaze Comet (because it's just really good). I feel like I saw a list that was along these lines that finished around top 15 at a GT in the last couple months, but I can't find it for the life of me. Regardless of how you build it, I get the impression the Dracoline-heavy lists are more of a decent, 3-2 type army than a world beater, but they definitely seem fun! Again, I haven't played a list like this yet (hopefully soon, now that I'm done painting my first 2k points and can buy more models!), so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure that at the very least your list would benefit from a Heraldor and switching from the Gryph Charger general to the Dracoline general. Hope this helps, and hopefully others will be able to offer more input!