Boar
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Posts posted by Boar
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5 hours ago, WillofNagash said:
It seems like it would ignore the wounds, and that would be different than negating is what you are saying.
here is the wording from the item: . Do not make save rolls for attacks made with that weapon, and wounds inflicted by that weapon cannot be negated when they are allocated to a model (the wounds can be healed later in the battle).
Yeah, sorry perhaps I wasn`t as clear as I could. So against Morathi she cannot save, cannot use any after save ability, but still can only suffer 3 wounds per turn as Baleful Blade ignores different rule than is (erratad) present onto Morathi warscroll.
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2 minutes ago, willange said:
Yeah that's BS. I didn't really mind that they simplified the realm rules (realmscape feature were too random, and the malign sorcery artifacts were too wild in their power levels), and I didn't really mind that they took away the new triumphs, but they really shouldn't take away rules that I actually had to buy models for, especially after only introducing them a year ago. It seriously makes me doubt purchasing any models for the sake of a GHB rule in the future. Blacksmoke Battery was so much fun in Greywater Fastness!
Also, does anyone know if the three new command abilities introduced in the GHB 2019 are still legal? All-out Defence, All-out Attack, and Volley Fire? Mine doesn't get here till tomorrow. Did they also do away with the new terrain tokens from GHB 2019 (volcanic, entangled, commanding, healing, etc)?Command abilities and terrain is the same I think, but I didn`t look that hard at terrain rules so maybe there were some small changes.
Regarding mercenaries, they were from the start in narrative section, weren`t they? So never were legal for matched play IIRC?
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As per latest errata, she can only suffer only 3 wounds per turn. They changed the wording like below so it doesn`t use "negating wounds" anymore. I assume that`s what is interesting you with this rule.
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1 hour ago, Beliman said:
Thanks for the answer!!
I was talking about tornaments, that's why I picked only 3 (they give points instead of deciding draws). I wanted to chose the most "good around corners" ones but they can be picked before every game. I think it's better to tailor a bit our Auxiliary Objectives like you said.Ah, tournaments - then it also depends on Organizers what rules they have. I see that in GHB they wrote example rules and you cannot take same auxiliary more than once in tournament, that would require more tought. So f.ex. in some battle you could see after set up that you don`t want to "use up" your better auxiliaries and use f.ex. Bait as that sacrifice wouldn`t be too detrimental in this matchup.
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1 hour ago, Beliman said:
Talking about objectives and points, imo, we have some Auxiliary Objectives that seems to be hard to be denied:
-The Bait should be really eazy to achieve. I'm really thinking in just using Iron Sky Squadron and charge a low-dmg enemy unit defending an enemies objective.
-Seize Ground seems to be good too. You need to have a boat+crew+hero/baloon boyz and High Fly near a terrain in turn 4.
-Vengeful Counter seems good too. We have a lot of units that can't take a beating and we are good a taking out key units.
What do you think? Can we reliably score this objectives?
I have to disagree with esp. 2 of those:
-Bait requires destruction of your own unit (at latest in 3rd round) and we don`t really have many bodies as is
-Vengful Counter needs to happen in the same turn, it could be possible but i fear that would require too much decisions focused on this instead on winning major. Also same problem as Bait it requires destruction of our unit we shouldn`t strategize around that IMO.
I would go as far, as to say that I would never use those two.
Third one you mentioned ie. Seize Ground is quite good though, but still you would need to pick goal carefuly or it could force you into wrong position in battle (and it triggers at end of 4 round where it could simply be too late as battle would end earlier on time), good thing here is you just need one unit close and it doesn`t matter if enemy is also close. So maybe, but at tournament or game with time limit I think it wouldn`t be good due too time it triggers.
Ultimately we have too remember that all of those are for deciding draws, and if you focus too much on them you will have it harder in achieving major victory.
I honestly wish that there were no minor victory and secondaries were additional points to score, not just tiebreakers.
What works for us then in my opinion? Well:
-Assassinate and Headhunter are quite good. In first you need to kill hero chosen by your enemy - so this is best when all enemy heroes are important too them so it doesn`t matter much which they choose. Second requires killing all enemy heroes. We have firepower and mobility to do that reliably in many cases, question remains if doing so is best strategy in given encounter.
-Domination requiring destruction of 3 enemy units in one turn, can be chosen vs MSU, also Prey on the Weak which requires destruction of all enemy battlelines before end of battle can be good
-Cornered can be easy too achieve with our mobility
-Prized Possession could be interesting in some situations as we are not that reliant on heroes, and f.x enemy going after Khemist who already used Bottle instead of disrupting our main plan could be beneficial
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3 hours ago, Zplash said:
So the new scenarios with favoring battleline and heros a lot look like a little nerf to KO... Our Heros are so slow without embarked on boats and within boats they don't count for objective taking...
Battline could be ok if you play bubble boys battleline or a skyport which gives you battleline which you already play in your list otherwise KO is more or less short on fast moving battlelines.
Last but not least I thought the biggest push for us is the lose of realm artefacts especially the ethernal amulet but now after I've seen the chamon artefact "ignoring rend 1" it just feels like every monster will take that instead of ethernal amulet and than we are in the same position with our Rend 1 shooting hehe
Triumph reduction we already discussed as a small nerf.
Still KO is very strong Armee in my opinion and I already have trouble to play them within my gaming group because most games are over in turn 2 or 3 and so far they didnt find the right strategy vs KO. I'll have to admit we don't have tzeentch, seraphon or Legion of chaos currently in our group. So vs the top meta we have to see how we will do.
What do you think about the changes in GHB2020 so far and the effect on our beloved Dwarfs?
Scenarios where only battleline or leader can take objective sure could be annoying. However I would like to point out that right now wording on ship garrisoning is that units inside don`t count for gaining control of objective. This is very specific wording, and this is important in scenarios like Total Conquest, where you score additional points for model with needed keword, or role being within 6" of controlled objective. Leader just needs to be close, even if he wouldn`t count for number of models on objective due to being in ship.
Generally those changes certainly can work in favour of skyriggers being taken as conditional battleline like you wrote. This also futher increases value of Urbaz and Zilfin with their conditional ship battleline, with Zilfin frigate with hero on board being able to score additional points in all situations were this is applicable.
Reagrding monsters and Chamon armor, you are generally right but still this means that -2 rend works - which is melee of endrinriggers and admiral, and in shooting phase cannons firing single shots will on average be better against 4+ and better armor than shrapnel. Also Khemist, skyhooks and grapnel launchers have -2 rend, and of course drill cannons. Though some enemies have access to reduce rend by one in all situations not only against rend -1, Ironsunz from Orruks being one so there is possibility they will take that one.
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Just a thought
When battles take place in Chamon there is command ability for +1 to hit on charge, since Skywardens have lower starting to hit value they benefit from it more then endrinriggers. Also Barak Zon skywardens charging with support of hero in Chamon can have 2+/2+ attacks. Of course this also means that enemy can use realm spell to increase saves, and riggers are better at punching through armor, so they can mitigate somewhat warden charge. Still maybe interesting gimmick for some of you.
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8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
The Hysh item seems to be arguably the best in most cases...
7 hours ago, Gistradagis said:Hysh's artefact looks good to me.
Except it looks like it`s reroll 1 to hit, not reroll all hits so 16% increase in output, and you cannot use it to fish for 6 to trigger MW, it saves CP at least
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There is interesting tidbit from todays 40k article:
QuoteFinally, as part of developing the new edition, points values were reviewed and have been adjusted UP across every faction. This may sound odd at first, but it yields several benefits. Firstly, games will play faster with, generally speaking, smaller armies on either side. This also makes starting a fresh army for the new edition a more accessible, quicker experience. It also means there’s room for more granularity when establishing how powerful one unit or ability is compared to another
Curious if when time comes for AoS there will be some shift like that?
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Just now, Sttufe said:
Most wardens if you want to exercise them in a traditional fashion, with glorious charges into enemy lines, generally use a single skyhook for the +1 to charge.
Don`t make me sad😔 Poor skywardens.
I kinda wanted do writeup about skyriggers of all kinds but can`t motivate myself
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2 hours ago, nine7six said:
what are peoples thoughts on drill cannon, vs grapnel vs light skyhook on endrinriggers/wardens? I'm doing 2 min units of endrinriggers in my list for objective tagging and long range shooting but not sure which gun to use, the rend -3 D3 dmg or rend -2 and straight 3 dmg.
They are similar in output, with drill being slightly better on average vs 4+ or better armor and slightly worse against lightly armored targets. But any minus to hit or facing coalesced seraphon and it`s small advantage for drill in all circumstances - due to it ability to deal MW.
So if I had to choose I would say drill by thin margin (unless utility abilities from grapnel/skyhook are interesting to you).
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On 5/26/2020 at 9:31 AM, Beliman said:
Didn't read the Bjorgen warscroll!! It seems that he can target units that are in ships? Maybe we can build some shenanigans around that?
Nope, restriction is just differently worded
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7 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
his Profiteers can't start in a ship
Why would that be? You set up ship and later set up them in cargo (garrison), this has nothing to do with battalions.
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20 hours ago, Malakithe said:
Your both assuming the Krusha doesnt wipe the first screen, get the free move, charge into the next screen, wipe it, then get another free move and charge lol
20 hours ago, Malakithe said:Its a combination of abilities. Smashing N Bashing, Mighty Destroyers, Mad as Hell. Castling against IJ is just a bad idea in general
It doesn`t look like that to me. First screen agreed, but after it`s charging into next screen it cannot deal required 10 MW on charge and so even if it wipes those arkos it`s staying there.
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1 hour ago, Beliman said:
Only models that are near (3") the Grundstock with Fumigator and the Khemist are going to -2 to hit. If he/she goes first, he/she will spread his charging models to avoid the debuff.
You can set up 10 Thunderers+Khemist in ranks so that almost all attacking models would get hit by -2 (source: just grabbed mine and checked). And if opponent goes for flanks setting up what he can 0,9" away he will be limited in number of models he can bring to bear. Either way it limits enemy offense in most cases. There is also factor of terrain and objective placement that can futher help with this.
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It looks like it is only one MW back regardless of number of sixes to wound rolled. It`s similary worded to command ability of Deamon Prince of Nurgle. If it was for all sixes it would say something like "for each six" like on Khinerai heartpiercer shields for example.
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3 hours ago, readercolin said:
They also don't get any bonuses to charge, unless they change one of their pikes out for a Grapnel Launcher, which means less damage in melee - and the grapnel launcher only gives a +1 bonus to charges, and 8" charges aren't all that much more reliable than 9" charges.
Skyhook actually😉, grapnel stops enemy from retreating. Also while 9" charge is at 28% (48% with reroll) 8" charge is already at 42% (66% with reroll)
As for the question I have 15 skyriggers, 4 of pikes/saws each, 2 drills (endrin), 2 volley guns (sky) and grapnel & skyhook (sky). When I will consider some tournaments or leagues I will add more.
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Umbral Spellportal teleports endless spell if it finishes it move within 6". Then after spell has finished move it is set up again on the other end of portal. So Pendulum won`t do any damage on the other side of portal (in that turn).
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9 hours ago, readercolin said:
we are forced to use Skywardens instead of Endrinriggers, which are mathematically worse in combat than the endrinriggers
Poor skywardens😔
6 hours ago, Kramer said:But can I also add that the honest wargamer himself is very much an advocate of being super high drops so you can respond to their set ups.
You have to remember though that when setting up units from battalion player can deploy all units together, but doesn`t have to. This mitigates advantages of many drops in deployment vs. low drop (due to battalions) enemies.
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1 hour ago, Grudgebearer said:
I’ve seen the iron sky command battallion in more and more lists, what’s up with that? As far as I can see it only lets us ignore battleshock 🤔
is that more valuable than the reroll 1s from the escort wing?
It`s about what you can pack inside battalion (all heroes) thus lowering drops
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18 hours ago, DantePQ said:
raging about them.
Rage against Moochine
16 hours ago, Vasshpit said:New "Mega"boss....?
Since new aelf aesthethic is so well recieved they will milk it some more and it will be new Megaboss on Moocrasha😉
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28 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
There are 2 kinds of people: those who stock toilet paper (store's stock is empty!! lol) and those who pile little soldiers. Guess who are this forum readers 😉
I use toilet paper to f.ex wipe excess paint from brushes, so both🙂
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Ok let`s start with thinking about Seraphon Coalesced
What is this brouhaha over Seraphon you ask? Well one of their sub-allegiances is Seraphon of old teleport, some summoning etc. Other, gives all units damage reduction ability, any multi-damage attack will have it`s damage reduced by one (to mininmum of one). It`s this second ability that causes some concern.
You may already read or realised that frigate firing shrapnel is half as effective vs those guys. Also D3 attacks that are quite common in our army lose 1/3 of output. While 1/3 on average doesn`t sound horrible you have to realise that you were getting 1/2/3 damage and now spread is 1/1/2. In effect this makes those weapons unable to deal 3 damage, and this possibility is large part of appeal of those. In effect those weapons should be treated as 1 damage weapons with chance (1/3) of one additional damage dealt. As you can see my reader 1/3 loss doesn`t quite cover what happens with say aethermatic saw when facing Coalesced Seraphon.
So below few words on two units (more to come!) that either don`t suffer from this debuff or the effect is limited.
Arkanaut Company:
Against coalesced they take relatively low hit to their combat effectiveness, in shooting just one attack is affected, it`s worse in melee unfortunately where 2 pike attacks are affected for each 10 arkanauts. They melee performance was weak to begin with but sometimes pikeguy could roll hot, no option for pleasant surprise this time.
PLUS:
-largest amount of bodies per point for us (with 4+ save), also better damage when close to objectives
-gold share increases their potential somewhat
-you probably have to take some anyway
MINUS:
-loss of damage on pike
-slow (move 4, and large amount of bodies for air transport considerations)
-missile weapons mostly are addition to melee due to their low ranges
-rather low damage output per model
Thunderers with Rifles
No loss of damage potential on rifles. Can be supplanted with fumigator, also decksweeper even without bonus for all special weapons is still better than aetherrifle – though obviously with lower range.
PLUS:
-decent damage and range
-fumigator and additional attack when in melee increases their utility in close combat
MINUS:
-slow on foot
-you need to pay at least 240 pts to get gold share
Arkanauts + Thunderers
In some situations you could deploy arkanauts and behind them (more than 1” from front) thunderers with one or more fumigators. When attacked by 1” range enemy part of them would get debuff from fumigator partially protecting arkanauts, and by sticking Thunderers in melee gave them
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7 hours ago, Phasteon said:
And yet this thread is called discussion and all my concerns are based on actual rules, not speculation. So why do you try to shut it down instead of being constructive about it?
I want to brainstorm counter measures against that new army so myself and other players in this thread can profit and are aware of the potential danger of a coalesced army.
Denying that the army will exist as a threat on a table does not help at all so please try to be helpful or don‘t answer at all.
No hard feelings here mate, just my opinion on the matter. 🍻
I have some thoughts on this (or rather on our units) I will try to write it down later today, well tried it yesterday but browser ate my work😡
I will just note few things quickly, which inform my and I assume @Phasteonconcerns. We are not panicking, it`s just tough nut to crack.
8 hours ago, Kramer said:every single army can do roughly that. If it’s not -1 damage, it’s a unit with an after save, save re-rolls, Splitting bodies or just massive numbers and you can still win against them.
Seraphon can do 6+ FNP bubble, skinks can have 4+ or even 3+ save thanks to spells or abilities, not to mention mystic shield. And they can have massive amount of bodies with skinks 10 models for 60pts.
So they can have all of things you mentioned in some manner, and in addition scaly skin ability, which btw affects all their units, unlike many of defensive buffs out there which are contingent on heroes or CP.
This is all without mentioning offensive synergies, which if you even look just on warscrolls (not touching battalions, allegiance abilites etc.) are aplenty. You dismiss Seraphon, army that can get more shooting damage from just 180 pts of skinks than we can from 250 pts frigate (and by more I mean twice as much)? And just to be clear those offensive buffs are not that concerning in on itself, however in conjuction with scaly skin that makes their heroes almost twice as hard to remove ie. those buffs to remove.
AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
in Order
Posted
Wording didn`t change from GHB 2019 (it was different in core rules). Still wording is you can reroll, and it doesn`t specify all rolled dice so IMO you choose what dice you reroll.