Ineffectual Clawlord

9 Stormfiends against 4+ amour. Spark is always included. "Normal result" is what you can expect 7 out of 10 rolls. (95% confidence intervals tend to be so wide that you can't gauge it properly in game.) 4++ means that you can re-roll. Launchers: 4+/4+ 5-7 (.7 per shot) 4++/4++ 13-17 (1.7 per shot) 3++/4++ 16-20 ( 2 per shot) Ratling: 27 shots 36 shots 4+/3+ 12 (.44 per shot) 16 (.44 per shot) 4++/3++ 24 (.9 per shot) 32 (.9 per shot) 3++/3++ 28.4 (1.1 per shot) 38 (1.1 per shot) When splitting shots there is no answer to be found in math, but as a risk averse player myself I'd advise not to be too greedy and prioritize. What do you really need to kill? What happens if you don't kill it?

@swarmofseals This is a more cohesive argument than I could have made! I use my spreadsheets to compare units that have a similar capacity to solve a problem for me, e.g. how do I take out a key threat on T1? Then a comparison between Jezzails - WLC - Stormfiends is very enlightening. However there are aspects that can shift all this again (will line of sight be a problem? Point for the Fiends). --------- Q: Thanquol’s Warpstone Addiction ability and the Grey Seer’s Warpstone Tokens ability say that the roll cannot be re-rolled or modified. Can you re-roll or modify the 2D6 roll once you have removed one of the three dice?A: No. Who is the best caster for the Vortex? (casting value8) Arch-Warlock: chance to succeed with re-roll: 65.98 % + Gnawhole: 82.64 % Grey Seer: Warpstone Token: 68.06 % Thanquol: base +2: 72.22 % + Gnawhole: 83.33 % Warpstone Addiction: 68.06 % Skreech Verminking: KoftA + Gnawhole: 72.22 % How successful is the Skitterleap-Vortex-Gnawhole-combo? Thanquol isn't involved due to weight constraints, Skreetch prefers to plot in the shadows outside of popularity. Both GS as well as AW have the arcane bonus, AW uses a spark: 68.86 % ----------- What would it need to make Thanquol popular again?

MMMWP has a 2/3 chance to kill a Jezzail. With bravery 4 and a point cost of 47 that is daunting. Giving them a spark when in range for a ~50% damage increase is definitely worthwhile though. I would cut the Warbringer. His spell is great but a casting value of 7 means a 58 % chance to cast it. Since you can't park him next to a gnawhole or give any other casting bonuses it is too unreliable for my taste. Other than that his buff is not that great. You could use the the new command abilities if you find excess CP's, but they are pretty pitiful as well. 280 points would provide a Grey seer (140) with Death Frenzy and extra Jezzails (140) and you could change the spell on the Bombardier to Chain Warp Lightning or get rid of him altogether. Getting rid of the Warbringer and either 20 Clanrats or the Brood Horrow upgrades would allow you to get in 15 Acolytes (who profit incredibly from MMMWP + Spark) for 180 as well as a Grey Seer (140) and some extra endless spells. Or 3 Ratlings with or without Overseer of Destruction. Skaven just have so many great options!

@swarmofseals Interesting, I worked on a similar spreadsheet for points efficiency. Did you find yours helpful? Personally I felt that every ratio calculated came with a large number of caveats. Given the sheer complexity of game situations, different matchups etc. that I think there are very few bad units per se (looking at you Doom Flayers!) and that the point efficiency didn't further my evaluation. As an example the Arch Warlock: the 3+ save itself shows up in my survivability-efficiency but it is even more valuable when he has Overseer of Destruction/ Vigordust/ only MMMWP-caster. Additionally his re-roll to cast and dispell. So in the end I had a number, but also a vast amount of extra notes for the units and aspects that I couldn't properly put in numbers. --------- To add something that might be of value to some, here are the chances to kill yourself with clan Skryre: WLC: ~ 12% on first turn (pretty much guaranteed on 2nd) Grey Seer/Thanquol: 9,72% Arch-Warlock spell: if re-roll 17.6% to fail. D3D6 equals a 61.42 % to kill him outright. with a +1 bonus to cast he has a 7.8 % chance to fail (in case anybody wants to go for an overloaded spell portal to start the game 😉) Warlocks: if re-roll 2.8 % to fail, with a 1/3 chance to die. 0.7 % chance if +1 to cast. Both also fail if unbound though. Doom Wheel: 16.7 %, with a 41.7% die immediately. Ratling Guns: 16.7 % Warpfire: 33.3% Flayers: 33.3% (doubles and 7 is just a fancy way of saying 1/3...) Bombardier/Spark/Stormcage etc. 1/6. Just for completion.

Agreeing with everybody, Stormvermin have already great damage output and don't need additional buffs. Not that an additional attack hurts them though... They also have the advantage of retreat + charge, so they can't be easily tarpitted and are not reliant upon their charge bonus to do insane damage. They are just reliable servants of the Horned One. But, they are 450 pt for a full unit, so you want to get the maximum out of them. This means that they profit heavily from some defensive support. Not the Skaven forte (life is cheap and all that...). - to hit from Wither or Geminids is often underestimated: If you assume an attack profile of 4+/4+, this means that 1/4 of the attacks are successful. Wither turns this into 5+/4+, so 1/6 of attacks are successful. The chance is reduced from 25 to 16.7 % or in other words, 1/3 less damage. For an attack profile of 3+/3+ this means a reduction from 44.4 to 33.3 % or 1/4 less damage. Compare this to Mystic Shield: you re-roll 1/6 of your save rolls, so the chance to negate increased from 50 to 58.3 %. This assumes no rend. With rend 2 the chance to negate increases from 16.7 to 19.4 %. (Or i could have just said that it always increases by 1/6th of the original chance to save) Some other ideas to increase their survivability: Prismatic Palisade to block visibility against shooting lists; Malevolent Maelstrom is actually great against most armies but can help out prevent MW on your Stormvermin. Screening them with Clanrats.

To give an idea of the comparison to clan Verminus: Stormvermin: Unbuffed .67 30+ 1.11 Gnash-gnaw + 30+ 1.67 Clanrats: Swords Spears Unbuffed .25 .17 30+ .44 .33 Gnash-gnaw + 30+ .89 .67 Assuming a unit of 40 Stormvermin in 4 rows of 10: 30 attacks = 33.3 successful attacks, 50.1 with Gnash-gnaw. For Clanrats: 20 swords = 8.8 successful attacks, 17.8 with Gnash-gnaw. 30 spears = 9.9 successful attacks, 20.1 with Gnash-gnaw. And yes, I've done these calculations for most of the units in the book. 😉 Due to work I'm stranded far off civilization and won't be able to play for over a year. Which does give me time to start painting a Skaven army and play around with the battletome.

Foetid Blades: Unbuffed .75 charge 1.13 30+ 1.19 charge 1.78 Vigordust + 30+ 1.3 charge 1.94 Filth-filth 1.13 charge 1.69 Rabid-rabid 1.13 charge 1.5 Filth + 30+ 1.58 charge 2.37 Rabid + 30+ 1.78 charge 2.37 Everything 3.46 Blade and Staff: Unbuffed .67 charge 1.08 30+ 1.22 charge 2 Vigordust + 30+ 1.53 charge 2.5 Filth-filth 1.08 charge 1.69 Rabid-rabid 1.08 charge 1.5 Filth + 30+ 1.69 charge 2.78 Rabid + 30+ 2 charge 2.78 Everything 4.84 Lists the successful attacks per model attacking. Not included are the special rules for rolls of 6 (rend, damage) and Bringer-of-the-Word. To calculate the average wounds just multiply the result with the armor coefficient (e.g. for a 6+ save multiply successful hits with 5/6 since on average 1 out of 6 attacks will be saved against) and you'll be in the right ballpark. To give an idea about the damage, assume 40 monks in 4 rows of 10. 20 Blades attacks: 30+ 23.8 charge 35.6 Everything 69.2 20 Blades + 10 extra staff attacks: 30+ 27.7 charge 46.7 Everything 115.6 The advantage of double blades (that doesn't show up here since I didn't list confidence intervals [i.e. usually a range where 95 % of results lie] because I'm not a madman) is that you re-roll hit rolls, so the deviation is lower. Meaning that you reduce the risk of a bad roll. If you combine it with Filth-Filth you achieve very stable damage as far as AoS works. What also shows is that super-buffing plague monks is in the vast majority of cases an exercise in overkill. To destroy a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist with ethereal amulet for example you need 28 successful attacks. It is tempting to imagine outright killing a unit of 60 Stabbaz, but for the vast majority of targets in the game you will waste damage. Getting them in combat with their 30 man bonus intact is at the heart of the issue. As long as you have battleshock immunity, the best way to buff plague monks is to bring more plague monks.