KriticalKhan

And with the new draconith brothers filling a similar niche, I can see the stardrake getting left on the backburner. I'd love a new version since, IMO, it's pretty underwhelming as a big centerpiece, but (again, just my opinion) the only models that really need a do-over are the dracoths and Celestant-Prime. I hate to bring out such a tired comparison, but they really look like something out of WoW or a cheap mobile game (that's trying to look like WoW). I can't speak for anyone else, but I hope the Sacroscant and Vanguard models stick around. They look good already and different armor styles would help them stand out and keep the army from looking too monotonous.

It's going to be interesting to see how a revamp of the old Stormcast goes. I'd say Sacrosanct stuff is pretty safe for the time being and the Vanguard units look good with the extra details and more dynamic posing. If it's only going to be the OG releases and Dracoth riders (Vandus is either getting a heroic return and new model or permanently killed off, IMO), then that could be done in a single edition's worth of releases. -New Liberators (dual kit with new multipart vindictors?) -Judicators (I really don't see the point of these guys with Vigilors now, but I was thinking the same thing about Liberators before last week, so...) -Prosecutors w/ variants -Paladins w/ variants -Dracoth riders w/ variants -Stardrake -Celestant-Prime -Vandus and then all the foot characters, some of which could be rolled into kits with multiple options or else dropped where there are already clear Thunderstrike alternatives (Knight-Vexillor and Lord-Relictor, for example). GW has been combining a lot of weapon options into single profiles and we might see something like that with the Paladins becoming a single unit to complement the Annihilators. That would be about on par with the initial Thunderstrike release and take care of the "worst offenders" of the range. If we assume they're going to add stuff from the unopened chambers too, then it would still only take about two editions. I don't think it will take as long as the Primaris stuff has since SCE are only dealing with about half the number of models. Or maybe it'll just be Liberators and we'll all look back on this and laugh

Regarding TOW pricing, if you take a step back and look at how GW charges 30-40 dollars for one foot hero and 60 for a unit of 20 guys the same size... or 60 dollars for ten guys... or five. Sometimes it's 100 dollars for three big horse guys or 60 dollars again for 3 other big lion-dragon-horse guys. It's all fake. Even if you subscribe to the idea that unit pricing is (very, very) roughly equivalent to in-game points cost, then it supports the idea that these regiment boxes will be a bit cheaper since TOW is going to have much larger unit sizes than AoS, and that means fewer points per individual model. If we compare it to AoS' horde unit pricing (Chainrasps excluded, because what is even going on with them?) then, again, we're looking at 60 dollars for 20 dudes (sometimes...). And if TOW follows HH's example with a "discount" then 60-70 dollars for 32 little guys seems pretty reasonable. GW knows that the cost of entry killed Fantasy. They aren't going to come out swinging with the same mistake. (they might try to push the envelope if it gets popular enough, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it)

Seeing those chunky guys go will be like the end of an era. I wonder if they'll update the big statue? Maybe go back to a Spess Muhreen? More importantly, we may now begin the endless speculation as to which Oldcast will get updated and how long it will take for them to refresh the range. As much as other lines might need the attention more, I think updates over even more redundant units is the best way to get our obligatory SCE releases (Gw pls new dracoth riders. They didn't even look good when you first released them)

if khorne doesn't end up with a new Valkia model by the end of this I will be mildly disgruntled and might even shake my head.

reprint of the OG Rogue Trader book. big day for annoying grognards (me)

It's probably the most annoying way to go. If they're linked, you have to deal with what you mentioned, but if they can be taken separately, you have to buy the entire squad for the single unit you want.

I'm never going to collect skaven but you guys deserve it so much. I'm almost offended on your behalf that it's taken so long And regarding FEC I just remembered that vargheists are in the SBGL vanguard so I think that kills any chances of the horrors/flayers getting a new kit soon. I wonder if GW would still do separate Courtier releases if they'd be 30-40 burgerbucks per hero when the current kit essentially functions like three heroes for 20 each?

I get why they made the Horrors/Flayers the "cavalry" of the FEC in the lore (can't do a noble knight parody without them) but I really hope the update has some proper ghouls-on-monsters to fill that niche model-wise. Maybe we'll get lucky and the horrors will get updated models that better reflect their delusions (maybe something like the centaurs in Fallout?) Regardless, Bat Cavalry would be badass (batass?) and I'll take more vampires of any kind

If people saw the new skeletons before they were officially revealed, most would have said they were obviously a new unit or a replacement for Grave Guard. I mean, just compare them to the old ones. There's no way it's the same unit, right? (But I will be the first to laugh if I'm wrong) That aside, I wonder how much of the range is getting updated. Other than what's been added since AoS launched, there are only 5 kits and they make up 95% of the army, so we could be looking at a total rehaul and given the size of other army updates that would still leave a few more open for new units. Those slots would probably be taken up by the courtiers, assuming they survive as a concept (and that GW doesn't make us build them out of the unit kits again). I'm curious to see if they touch the Terrorgheist/Zombie dragon and Vargheist/Horror kit, given its dual use with the SBGL. IT would be kinda funny if FEC got new kits for their units and SBGL were somehow stuck with the old ones, but I get the feeling they'll stick around for both given their relative recency. I was going to wishlist some new stuff I'd like to see, but I'd be completely satisfied with new ghouls, separate courtiers, and a new varghulf. And modern GW seems to only give exposed ****** to non-human creatures, which I suppose confirms that ghouls really are bretonnian peasants.

I see Chaos as a metaphor for entropy and the inevitability of failure/death. You can't escape it, it's always coming, and no matter what you do, it's going to win in the end. Does that mean everything before was worthless? Unless you're an anti-natalist suicidal hyper-doomer, most people would say no. The goal has never been to beat Chaos, only to fight for another day. And that means that Chaos is "overpowered" and no one else is "balanced" against it, but the narrative is not dictated by rules or fairness. Complaining about that is like saying the Tyranids or the original Necrons are boring because they don't have named characters or personality. It's not a flaw in the writing: it's practically the whole point. Of course, none of this is to say that GW writes Chaos in an interesting manner. One can only see "That cool, nuanced villain/xeno/underutilized faction character was actually only the setup for CHAOS! Again! Never saw that coming, eh?" before you get bored. Someone should teach them that not using something all the time actually gives it more of an impact. Shocking, I know. *They do, and it comes from the style, designs, and the mood and atmosphere they evoke

I'm really interested in seeing how they handle Stormcast going forward. After the middling response to the initial models, I don't think GW had a lot of time to pivot their design direction in time for 2e; the Sacrosanct feel like a natural expansion rather than a redesign. But 3e and the Thunderstrike models almost feel like a complete reboot, and many of those models feel more like replacements instead of additions (Vindictors and Liberators, Annihilators and the other Paladins, etc.) I've heard some rumors that older units like Liberators are getting new models for 4e, which I initially thought was absurd until I remembered that it would be nine years since they had been released, and given GW's design-to-release timeline, by the time we get to 4e they could have been in-development eleven to twelve years ago. I don't think there's any scenario where they drop them entirely (at least, not for another twenty years) but the roster bloat is real and I don't see a way they can diversify some of these units when there are so many trying to fill the same battlefield roles.

Not sure about Lauka Vai (or even soulblight in general) since they had one last year with the Vengorian Lord already. But I suppose GW has done stranger things

Eventually, we're going to reach a point where most of the units are redone or "good enough" and most updates each edition are nothing more than new books and maybe a hero model. It's the same standard 40k and Fantasy had for much of their lifetimes and it's reasonable to expect AoS to end up in a similar state when GW can't keep adding factions forever. They're also fine with keeping some models in production for 20+ years, so don't expect updates to 1e AoS stuff anytime soon. My optimistic view is that we'll keep getting "second waves" to AoS concepts and maybe even new sub-factions for existing armies---ideas like the Kurnothi for Sylvaneth, or what the Witch Elves used to be for the Dark Elves in Fantasy: new units with new aesthetics and functions that still fit in the broader theme of their base faction. That would keep the overall number of factions to a reasonable level while still allowing new ideas and releases that might draw someone into a faction more than "old infantry but in a new pose with more greebly bits" updates might.

I think it's pretty neat that we're very nearly at the point where every faction in the game will be modernized. As someone who's been around since before the general's handbook was a thing, the days of dozens and dozens of microfactions of Fantasy leftovers* don't feel all that long ago. Given what we know is coming, the only ones that need big releases are the Skaven and Beasts of Chaos---toss in new waves for Fyreslayers and Idoneth and all we'd really have left are the occasional resin character or units like Grave and Temple Guard that can easily be taken care of in campaign releases or Warcry. I don't really have a point here, but given how some of us were doomposting about GW's treatment of AoS not even a year ago, I feel like we're in a pretty great spot. *I don't think every Fantasy model needs to be replaced and updated (and in the case of specific ones like ogre infantry I'd be disappointed if they were) but there seems to be a conscious effort to differentiate new AoS releases from them, especially given the (eventual) release of The Old World

and i just remembered that I know what digital editing is. I wonder how difficult this would be to convert?

I would have liked the side-orks on the big pig if they were hanging off the side like in this picture but an option to build it without fixes the only complaints I have. I think for the boss version I'd just put some extra hacky bits on the sides so it retains a sufficient level of killiness. Kinda like those spikes truck drivers put on their wheels.

If anything it'd be the other way around, since Fulgrim has been "sexy snake daemon" in the lore for about as long as daemon primarchs have existed.

Love how you could feel the room deflate when they revealed Fulgrim is for HH. 40k EChads, you'll have your day (eventually) (Slaanesh gets off on teasing you)

I could understand new Stormcast stuff if GW was planning on phasing out the older models with Thunderstrike replacements, but the new battletome went out of its way in the fluff to say that the old armor style would be sticking around and they've established Thunderstrike stuff as separate units so you can't proxy old stuff in the same way an StD player can still use their old Chaos Warriors. So now GW is in a bind where they've essentially admitted that the old Stormcast designs aren't what people wanted, but they can't get rid of them, and they're still making Thunderstrike equivalents, and they have two other Chambers with units types that cover the same niches. Now, not only have they covered just about every conceivable unit type, they have two to three variants for all of them! The only way to add more is to remove what's left of their faction identity (remember when Stormcast didn't have wizards and were a "slow" army?). If they end up in the 4e starter with more units, I'm expecting to see some kind of chaff unit (more of a horde than gryph hounds); a tanky, medium-sized monster (bound-spirit Storm Golems?); and maybe some more artillery---perhaps as part of the long-awaited Ruination Chamber. Even if Stormcast aren't the Space Marines GW wanted, I don't think they can admit that. Stormcast, from day one, have been billed as the poster-boys of AoS, and in the eyes of the public (both players and people who only know about it) they are inextricably linked---they replaced their Space Marine statue at the front of their business with a 1e Stormcast. Backing down from including them in a starter or retiring plastic kits with complete redesigns at an unprecedented speed would be an admission of failure. It wouldn't tank the game, but in some combination of sunk-cost fallacy* and maybe a bit of corporate pride, GW is obligated to continue supporting them and keep them in the limelight. I think the only mystery for the next starter is whether or not it will have them facing off against Chaos again, or an Order faction for a complete circle. And for the record, I'm saying this as someone with a Stormcast army. Gw. Please. We really don't need any more. *I'm not calling them unsuccessful---just not as successful as GW obviously wanted. There are designer videos where they talked about how AoS is, at its core, the "story of the Stormcast Eternals" and that there were, at the time, plans for each Stormhost to get its own supplement in the style of Space Marine chapters.

I'm pretty sure it's all but confirmed that Flesh-Eaters are going to be the winter battletome, but what's the credibility of the rumors they'll have a range refresh/update? I think I remember Whitefang saying something about it. Did they give any specifics about what would come?

I know we're still a year and a half away. But pls don't make me think about that

I think StD counts as her release since Darkoath are just the modern incarnation of generic marauders.

Personally, I like a lot of the older minis that got discontinued before I could buy them, I've played some older Fantasy editions and enjoy the rank n flank style gameplay, and I like Fantasy's lore and TOW could lead to further support. It covers a different niche from AoS and from what they said in the QnA it's aimed toward people who've been playing wargames; I really don't think the potential Total War audience is as big as people say it is. Go to any thread in those communities and see how few people are interested in TT games or have been scared away by what they've heard about GW. Frankly, I'd play just about any off-brand fantasy rank n flank game if it were fun, but most wargamers I know are only interested if the system has the GW logo and the promise of future support.

As someone who never even knew that Warhammer existed before Fantasy died, "We're bringing the old models back." is all I wanted to hear. I'd take the 4th and 5th edition sculpts over the later ones. Inject those janky-ass proportions and 2-dimensional poses straight into my veins. I have my modern AoS armies to take care of such frivolities as "discernible detail" and "faces that don't look like melted candle wax". I want Goblin Green bases and reds so vibrant they make your eyes bleed.