Raffonerd
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Posts posted by Raffonerd
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14 hours ago, PJetski said:
Nah Gavriel lists became obsolete long before GHB2019, even before the Fight First meta, and even before AOS 2.0.
Turn 1 charge lists have always been easy to counter with just some basic positioning. If you play against people that know how to screen against the deep strike charge and keep key units back for a counterattack then your list quickly falls apart and fails to do anything.
I don't understand your point. September GT in london best stormcast was using Gavriel.
The thing is, if you play gavriel like an idiot (brain dead first turn charge) for sure you lose. It's not FEC or slanesh that goes straight on and kills everything.
You have to focus on objectives, shoot on screen, and in case double charge with descend + gavriel -> traslocation + pennant next turn to relocate again and charge.
First rule to remember, use brain not dices.
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4 hours ago, rockmanko said:
Can you put the general aside at the start of a battle?
Even if you do I think you will still miss the HERO phase for 1/2 chance CP farming
Prince is not only +1 hit for one units but all units within the range
+he got an extra skill (the bird)?
I prefer Assasin as general for this city. It unlocks SW as Bline.
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14 hours ago, Belper said:
Gavriel was the best list until people got smashed by it enough times to play learn how to play against it.
Now it's shootcast.
No, before Gaviel/Sanct were lower in points. Now it is a more fair selection and with slanesh around you cannot fight in cac as before.
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In my opinion Np is unefficient for its cost.
1 cp + 120 points = 170 to have +1 hit. You can put 30 SoW then which is better. Assassin general is a low cost supporting hero that can be useful everywhere and unlocks the SW as bline.
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20 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
I feel i'd make not the knight incantor my general, so that the wizard dispelling spells can break down 2 of them. The scroll can't be used on the comet, it's only good for stopping enemy spells.
I think the knight incantor is chill, but you can get more mortal wounds out of the lard arcanum with prime electrictrid which isn't something to sneeze at. Though he has anti synergy with azyr battle mage as he likes to follow up chain lighting and roaming wild fire with arcane bolt for an average of 6 mortal wounds.
I think i prefer a none incantor general. I'd like 2 spell unbinds for my famed spell hunter, or atleast a none endless spell flinging general. One who can use both of thier spell slots to constantly unbind endless spells. Letting you react the gemninds, pendulum, comet, or what ever multiple endless spell to get more milage out of them. Also the incantor won't get bonuses to cast if used to activate the CA meaning you have to standard cast out the comet.What's got you.... Broken Hearted..... friend?? Feeling the options are abit... Hallow??
*cough*
It's a tough build as you have to make sure your getting enough juices for the squeeze on the wizard bump. Gotta budget for lots of wizards and endless spells while still packing a good melee unit and maybe some ranged units to make it worth taking the heart.
Wizards:
Sorc general with agraxi prism (90pts, general+artifact). As your general she can block CA damage allowing her to be a decent activator with the retinue. She can give her self bonuses to cast by eating a darkling coven model. Meaning if she doesn't catch the CA she's still ready to open a spell portal to support one of your wizards like and incantor/exorcist/cyclone caster/etc. Lastly, the spell is no slacker. This model banks your a d3 mortal wound single target with a tacked on -1 to hit.
Support: Great spell portal set up, CA user, -1 to hit, buffs run/charge with darkling coven models
Damage: Single target D3 mortal wounds
Azyr battlemage with balewind vortex (130pts). This one is your go to power house. Turn one throwing out those 24" range chain lightnings and roaming wild fires. The vortex can let you sneak alittle close as well being more like 28" depending on how you deploy. Turn 2+ your also adding in arcane bolt throwing out d3 mortal wounds often than to CA. Or you can giving him seer wounds so he can heal models from accross the table.
Support: Long range healer for large models
Damage: possible 3d3 mortal wounds to a single target ~28" range , area 2d3 mortal wounds on 4+.
Incantor with comet (240 pts). You bring this one for the comet and the once per game unbind to take out key spells. She needs to catch the CA so i don't recommend her being your general. A good candidate for cyclone as her other spell won't be as usefull most of the time, and she's likely just to try to stay back and out of unbind range with your azyr battlemage. Meaning she can look in the mirror all game.
support: once per game auto unbind
damage: 30" d3 mortal wounds (if going 2nd potentialy 2d3 with 2nd activation), With mirror caddy has free lot of cyclone.
Hurricanum is weird (220 no wizard, 280 with wizard). It has a nice d6 mortal wounds spell and 3d6 shooting attack. It just has to move up to get into striking distance It does have +1 to hit which can work wonders for many of your shooting options, but doesn't play well with shadow warriors. It's battle mage is also azyr, but no vortex here. If your going to bring the azyr battle mage you'll have to find another spell from the lore for this model to take. When taking the model know your taking it mostly for the shooting attack as others might be using the mirror.
support: shooting +1 to hit, +1 to cast battlemage/luminark/itself
Damage: 3d3 mortal wound shooting attack at full health, d3-d6 mortal wound spell (needs mirror for turn 1 use).Support battle mages. Hysh and Ghur at the best 2 support battlemages and its all about what you need. Ghur gives you speed which works well for darkshards/blackguard running and shooting, while hysh works great for keeping tanky units alive like pheonix guard, liberators, sequitors, and phoenixs or with the help of a sorc also giving -1 to hit to melee threat can keep squishy units safe (black guard/morrsarr guard). They like taking ignite weapons and warding brand (mainly for melee) to further aid thier charges. Or they can use an endless spell. With ignax scales they become good CA users. Hysh can work
Support: +2 run/charge or -1 to be hit. Nice to also have +1 to wound or 4+ thorn effect.
Damage: Thorns or endless spell of choice, quick silver swords are a great choice here working well against chaos (15 wounding on 6s is better than d3 mortal wounds)
I think outside of wizards i like:
Shadow warriors 10 as strong suprize damage that doesn't need protection, and can hit a lot of targets, or atleast forces your opponent to manuever is a very different way. I like them as 10s as we aren't going first most times away way so why make big squads. This aren't likely to get buffed when you want them most (the first time they hit the table), they want to be wholly within cover, and you want multiple squads to snatch objectives. They do decent damage and each squad is effectively a celestart balista with a lord ordinator near by. 20 can kill most small characetrs 40 can drop a keeper (assuming you can get them all in cover and in range).
average dmg for 10: 4.07 vs 4+ save
Darkshard 10-20 nice battle line that can turn on sorceresses giving you access to that the +2 to cast. They can spend CP to move quickly and work well with dark shards.
average dmg for 10: 3.33 vs 4+ save
Anointed on Flame Phoenixs can do free early mortal wounds with thier movement thingy. This give your a psuedo spell allowing you to work around units fighting first, but doing mortal before combat starts. The move mortals are tough to accomplish however as it's similar to reducing movement by 6. Its going to realistic be that you'll either do for the free move damage or go into melee. It's a tanky model that can sort of screen for your army, and you use mostly for the move mortal and possible combat damage. Can be swinging if revived. I don't rate the frost one because i think the main sell is the move over mortal wounds. The melee damage isn't there for these two and the frost one is more about melee -1 to wound and wants other melee untis around to support, but you can only afford to bring so many. That said frosty is tankier thanks to the aura.
Average dmg possible 5 move mortal, 3.85 melee vs 4+ save
Phoenix guard (30 models) these are also tanks and they can hit decently hard. I don't love these personally as they're mainly going to be hitting back. They are relatively slow compared to most meta hammer units that skate up the table quickly and charge. That said wildform can get them into battle from further than normal. These are higher damage versions of the flame/frost phoenix higher model counts. High max possible damage, but lack attack priority of the flame phoenix, and not as durable as the frost phoenix can be. These are take at 40 or not at all if you ask me. Also require a annoited general to be battle line. Gain easy immune to battleshock access.
Average dmg for 30: 18.07 vs 4+ save
Black Guard 30 models: these are fast and squishier phoenix guard. They'll be picking thier fights and hidden between your screen instead of being your screen. Meaning you'll want to invest in a screen to keep these safe. With possible 2cp help and wild form this can possible move 15" and charge with +3" making them super fast. WIth access to +1 to hit if they can manage to keep a sorc near by (tough without thermal rider cloak or the black dragon). While they might also like wild form to help them further. Benefits are picking your fights and move clear accross the table. Very battleshock vulnerable.
average dmg for 30: 18.07 vs 4+ saveAllied 6 Morrsarr guard: I point these out because i have and like them a lot. These combine the some of the flame pheonix and black guard into one unit. They start off moving 14" and with wild form can charge with +2 rerolling. They have a once per game lightning blast pre combat mortal wounds, allowing them to help against attacking first models similar to the pheonix, but they also have more melee bite. The lightning blast can also be used defensively to cut the damage from charging units. These are my favorite melee unit, but you can only bring one due to ally points.
Average dmg for 6: 14.96 vs 4+ save, Once per game average dmg 5 mortal wounds
Others:
Pistoliers hit very hard and do it all before combat start. No run and charge sucks, but they'll beat out shadow warrior and dark shard numbers if they get all thier duck in a row for the charge. Thier movement make them rather ackward for turn 1 charging though, so they won't be in the fight till turn 2. They need a force that will help them with getting around alittle quicker.
Sisters of the thorn: Good can use the endless spell boat to get into spell range turn 1. I jut haven't found spells worth having them do this. If you have some one else boat them they could throw a purple sun that will hit all of your opponents army easily, or give an important enemy a penedulum to the face. Along with some other point black spell.
Wild riders. Actualy quite high damage but they have ackward range that make it tough for them to play like black guard or morrsarr guard who can be early threat, and no cheaty moves that let them fight sooner than they should. Again they do really good damage, it's more the execution like pistoliers.
Crossbows/sisters of the watch. A great option but they want you to bring a boat or bridge to get them up the table with out "moving" them. They are the most math friendly shooting units and in max units with +1 to hit, maybe rerolls for transmute and other buffs they can be very spooky. They require investment, and they don't hit as hard as melee units. That all said they have a very large threat range and can put out damage outside of the combat phase avoid deepkin turn 2/3 stuff, flesh eater court attack first, slannesh attack first, and skaven death frenzies. Which has some real value. These should be up in the real consideration bracket, but i don't have my math on hand for them. I do know it's good though. These, bridge, hurricanum, and buff mages are a list ready to go and do great things just be sure to bring a screen and potentialy the battleshock protection artifact.
Lord exorcist seems cool?? Spell portal hoting up and doing mortals. i just don't like the kind of high chance to fail to do any damage at all. In most cases it's like chain lightning but with out the inital hit, and against stormcast it's alot worse. That said he still load up the comet.
Did you played this list against skaven endless spell? That s why incantor is usefull
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5 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:
What are your battleline with -1 Prince?
Shadow Warrior. best bline in cities.
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2 hours ago, Paul Buckler said:
Heading of to the Bloodshed in the Shires event in 2 weeks, taking this
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Deepmire Cloak
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
Knight-Azyros (100)
20 x Eternal Guard (260)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Cage of Thorns (Living City Wizard)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
6 x Desolators (600)
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
Have had about 10 games so far, reasonable results, felt in most games barring a priority roll here and there. Liking the cities so far, lots of options but keep coming back to the Living city as my choice.
Basically my first list for this city.
Which problems did you find out mostly?
What do you think about:
- 1 Prince
- 6 Desolators
+ 1 Assasin general
+ 3x10 Shadow warriors
+ Durthu GhyrStrike
You have 2k as Total.
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5 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
It's only opg and many will use it to reposition the comet t2. In HH you can just make the Incantor/Arcanum General and give them the +3 dispell which is good enough to be useful throughout the game.
Incantor general can use also the bodyguard and the CP ability of the city. Also good for splitting command ability MWs.
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3 hours ago, mmimzie said:
@Gwendar I think if they did nerf the command ability i'd take the lord arcanum on mount Either dracoline or gyrph charger instead of the knight incantor i am taking now. Prime electrics would be quite alright, the gyrph charger one can self heal, and it still gets look out sir but has 7 wounds.
@stratigo yeah i just never like the power creep arguement, atleast with current GW. The most intense moment we've had recently has been slannesh , skaven, flesh eater courts when they dropped pre general hand book, but i think that got squished quite quick and shows where GW stands on that. I think where they are weak is bringing armies back from the dead like KO and BCR.
@KK9T I think you miss abit of a wall to keep your units safe, but i guess you could use sisters of the thorne as your protective models keep your inner wizard ball safe from being attacked. So i'd consider if you want to put the lives of your sisters on the line to keep the rest of your forces safe from any form of alpha strike.Incantor is better in a non stormcast army. Automatic dispell is crazy strong.
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Told you about wild riders. They cost also very few for their damage output.
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I think the same. All cities units lacks on mobility. So even if you have good rules you are behind to any new army. Because of this, you need to focus on empowered spells that gives you mobility: forbidden power. On top of it, you have spell portal plus cyclone which is incredible strong. No battleshock around 18", spells and PG to defend youself from mortal wounds.
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13 minutes ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:
Good to hear I’m not the only one who’s shifted to trying to make the most out of the command ability. Units like wild riders that are great for 1 turn and lose effectiveness are prime targets, especially considering they are going to die anyways. Sure you can use it on Phoenix guard but it’s not entirely necessary.
Something like wild riders are a freaking awesome unit to use this on. One of two things is going to happen here. 1)you chose the wild riders first and you get to attack twice at -2 2 damage which is awesome
or
2) you purposefully don’t choose the wild riders first and pick some other unit (hopefully some little dude like an anointed, fleetmaster, etc.), essentially tempting your opponent to kill off your wild riders. They do so, and while you won’t be attacking twice, you’ll still get an activation AND proc the hit / wound bonus for any other units you have.
I don’t think the battle trait is so pointless that we should ignore it, but I don’t think it’s something super reliable. In cases like this though I think it’s possible to essentially force it.
Yes, I think option 1 is the best one. But yes, depend on situations.
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1 hour ago, Thalandor said:
looks like a solid list, that has tools for most situations. I wouldn't make a lot of changes before testing the general idea of the army followed by lots of small tweaks here and there.
But there's one thing I think you need to give some thoughts to. You have seven drops, that means you are likely not choosing who get's to go first in the first battleround. What is your plan, if you have to go first? You do not have much threatpotential beyond 18 inch and you are facing a potential double turn. Currently you got Everblaze Comets and thats it. I think you'll need something like a Balewind Vortex and/or Umbral Spellportal.
You could drop the Sorceress, as she doesn't benefit from the +1 to cast from the Hurricanum nor from the +2 from her own ability.
Freeguild Guards come either with A) Halberd and no shield, B) Spear and no shield or C) sword and shield.
Nothing to say to mine?
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45 minutes ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:
But honestly the hit and wound bonus seems like a last few turns bonus to give your guys a little more hitting power in the late game. The real full time benefit to the city is the Living Idols command ability.
You got the point.
That's why i've in wild rider. If they charge they go rend -2 2 damage and if they die they attack again plus they buff others.
The best would be Bmage/Fleetmaster general with no bshock aura and 20 guards to cover it. Corsairs have ts 4 against shooting and with 2 melee weapon plus the command they have 4 aa each. So if they die, they attack and they don't test.
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10 hours ago, adreal said:
So I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this list idea
Basic plans are to deploy the wwr and the eternal guard in a block with the general, the battlemage, the sisters of the thorn behind them with the Phoenix covering them all with his aura. Have the wild riders off to the flank
Hidden pathways 30 sisters and a nomad prince to shoot and scoot into the battlefield and the shadow warriors pop up in support or on a objective
Good i think. I'll drop 1 prince, wylwood and maybe 10 SoW for a Dricha.
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15 hours ago, Chumphammer said:
Thought i would look at a Phoenicium list with some of the stuff I have on hand:
Phoenicium City
Ghyran
Anointed (General) One with fire and ice (Golden Mist) - Will sit in the rear of the 30 PG
BattleMage (Lore tbd) Ambertide (To cast lifeswarm plus support spell)
Anointed on Frostheart
Anointed on Frostheart
Anointed on Frostheart (3 bird strike force. If vs non shooting They might flank the PG block and move up together if vs huge combat army. If not they will head off together and hit the biggest unit)
30 Phoenix Guard
10 Phoenix Guard (Retinue, sit behind big PG to defend command and support when needed)
10 Darkshards (using HE archers for this unit. I wanted some little fire support)
10 Shadow Warriors (these guys are great! I wanted 2 but out of points)
Emerald life swarm
So main idea same as WH. Frosthearts go get in the face of people. They get +1 wound for Phoenicium, and with lifeswarm (and mists if in range) they can stay around. That is a lot of Rend 1 2 damage attacks.
Anointed on foot and mage move up surrounded by PG in a block that wont budge, again being healed.
Shadow warriors are a great little unit now, and will either drop to take out unit holding objectives (as many times its 5 heartrenders or 10 weak models) or go for annoying units like ranged shooters or support wizards.
Darkshards are there as I have the points spare for a small core unit, and I wanted some fire support. 20 shots 4+/4+ at range 16 isnt bad, and can be good to help deal with flanking small units so my main PG block doesnt need to divert attention. The 10 PG as the same, able to react to flanking threats and protecting the command teamWhy no sorceress instead of bmage then?
Anyway, it's similar to mine. I think that wild riders can give you a better support (lack of mobility + Great with the phoenicium command) then the third phoenix. But i think they both can work with the great command ability. Also you lose the cast if you move your phoenix all ahead. For me it's better to have mist on the phoenix so they can fight with riders everywhere without losing the +1 ts bonus totally.
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1 hour ago, CrashQuest said:
Has anyone considered a non Phoenix Temple Phoenicium list?
Yes, but i don't have models.
Bmage general + tons of flagellants and 2 phoenixs
Fleet master general + tons of corsairs and 2 phoenixs
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Guys, Final Breaking meta list:
Hallow Heart Anoited Frost 320 Incantor 140 Bmage 90 Bmage 90 SoT 130 FreeGuild Crossbow 100 Liberators 100 Eternal Guard 330 Phoenix 320 Spell Portal 70 Geminds 60 Emerald 50 Lauchon 60 Battalion 140 Total 2000 General incantor with 20 phoenix as support and no battleshock around 18". Ignax scale. Heal & Aegis.
Phoenix with tome and heal.
Bamge Hysh - warding cyclone - general supporter
Bamge Asquy- wildfire ignite
SoT - wildfire cyclone
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Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- City: Phoenicium
LEADERS
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait : One with Fire and Ice - Golden Mist
- Artefact : Phoenix Pyre Ashes
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Battlemage (90)
- Spell : Lore of the Phoenix - Golden Mist (Phoenicium Wizard)
- Mortal Realm : Hysh
Battlemage (90)
- Spell : Lore of the Phoenix - Amber Tide (Phoenicium Wizard)
- Mortal Realm : Ghur
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell : Lore of the Phoenix -Phoenix Cries (Phoenicium Wizard)
UNITS
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1 x Grandblades
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Extra Command Point (50)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 109
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400 -
6 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:
The hurricanum feels like it should be the lynchpin of the list. Buffs casters(again). Decent mw output. Wicked spell combined with the chamon wizard. Makes the block of guard hit on 2’s for being near it. Casts, and can tank/heal damage to itself to ensure every spell goes off all game.
Arcanums great, but reliably able to pump out 3d3 &d6 mw in a hero phase a sideshow great?
frosty is usually my favourite... but leans towards keeping it amongst others for the awesome aura. I use the flame with the artefact to pile the ****** into whatever I didn’t just kill with the spell barrage! Flat 5 mw just for saying hey, and d3 on a 4+ to all in combat. They can’t resist, it’s effectively two more decent spells in mw output. He’ll keep them busy for a turn or two, which is all I need him for. And if he does die... 😁
lists expensive, and lacking in some areas, but it’s ****** fun 💪
Yes. But huricanum dies fast against a shooting list, while the arcanum don t.
Frost is maybe less deadly but is more useful as a supporting unit for your army.
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9 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:
Played my first game last night with this
Anointed of flamespyre (Pauldrones of flame)
hurricanum & mage (ignaxs scales)
2 battlemages (life and metal)
Anointed on foot (spellhunter)
30 Phoenix guard
2x10 Phoenix guard
10 shadow warriors
ravenacks jaws
spell portal
lifeswarm
had the white fire battalion, but averaging +cast from the ca it seemed a little excessive to have +6... unbundling may well be better!
Gaurd hitting on twos from the hurricanum and rerolling wounds was absolutely amazing... averaging 56 rend 1 wounds! Brought ten back, so worth the points for lifeswarm. This was dispelled after casting!
Bird is awesome for charging in and wrecking what’s the spells haven’t, and doing more at the end of combat.
Ravenaks was amazing for 30 points! 12”+d6 is pretty beast.
elemental cyclone. Oh boy: spell portal and cast makes that an absolute beast against blocks of elites and hordes!
Similar to mine.
I have no huricanum and a lord arcanum. Better save self heal and better stats.
Also i have frost phoenix and 2x20 phoenix. Also add geminds, emerald and the top spell lauchon.
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11 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
You can also put him as general and give him a retinue.
General must be prince
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12 hours ago, Thalandor said:
How do you intend on keeping your Knight-Azyros alive for more than your alpha strike? I've been thinking about using one, but I don't see him being that useful. 5 wounds are very easily inflicted by an average hero phase, nowadays. Or do you rather see him as a "nice to have but not overly important to the grand scheme"?
The things is: do you think that with 30 SoW and 6 desolators in da face, they are going to focus azyros? And even if he dies who cares
You can place it inside SoW, so it applies also in the countercharge.
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Living City
Realms:
Azyros 100 (Adjoint)
Prince - Gen 120 (Ts +1, Spear)
30 x SoW 480
6 x Desolators 600Fields:
30 x Eternal 330
5 x SoT 130 - Cage
Bmage 90 Hysh - Heal
Sorceress 90 - Buff
Cp 50
Total 1990
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AoS 2 - Living City Discussion
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
All wanderers, ok. SoT ? wow, 1 damage
Eternal goes to hit 2+ by them self. Would be cool with wild riders but you have to reach them. It's good only if you have the battalion. The assassin does more or less the same for 40 points less.