Jabbuk
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Posts posted by Jabbuk
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4 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Oh hey; I have a question for those in the know.
Are we getting Priests? They have a slew of new abilities and synergies/anti enemy priest gimmicks....but afaik we dont have any
We don't have any priests no and I haven't seen any preview announcing one either. Yeah some armies just don't have them so far. I also painted 12 Myrmourn recently, just so that I can't field them anymore
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4 hours ago, Ranzou said:
Sorry, but I see zero damage here.
Cruciator can give 5+++, but who will benefit?
Chainghasts can give rerolls, but who will benefit?
Guardian of souls can give +1 to wound, but who will benefit?
Olynder can dash a mortal rain, but who will protect her?
20 rasps will be deleted to still breathe, even with full rerolls they still can do pathetically low damage.
4 banshees can't do anything. 4 attacks on 4+ is nothing at all.
As for me - Chainghasts are great with bladegheists, Cruciator and Guardian can make a block of 30 reapers even deadlier, Olynder is in great need of Emerald Host and 2x5 hexwraiths. Rasps are great in blocks of 40 as anvil or 10 as suicide squad for next wave of attackers or objective campers.
At first - add some firepower here.
Thanks for you input! I would've thought that the Chainrasp would do damage with all the boosts and I'd be able to keep them alive with my spells, etc. I guess I was wrong. I mean the fact they're all on 25mm, I thought they could pretty much all attack.
You can't have Chainrasps as groups of 40 anymore, 30 max. The banshees were Olynder's screen as I had 75pts to fill up.
I'll have another look at it and focus on damage
Would you prioritize Olynder or Black Coach at this level?
Thanks for the input as well @Neck-Romantic
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Hi everyone! I got my first game in a year upcoming and it's gonna be a 2v2 where each of us will bring 1000pts.
I was thinking of bringing the ghosts to try all the new tools. Here's a list I've put up and wanted to get your feedback on it if possible:
Reikenor's Condemned
- Guardian of souls (General -135pts)
- Krulghast Cruciator (120pts)
- Lady Olynder (215pts)
Units
-2x10 Chainrasp Hordes (190pts)
-2x10 Chainrasp Hordes (190pts)
-1x Chainghasts (70pts)
-1x Myrmourn (75pts)
Basically, I'm looking to create a nice block with the rasps and Chainghasts and KC and GoS to get all buffs from Reikenor's and have them on a 5+ Deathless.
And then having Lady O drop somewhere and do some damage with a screen of Myrmourns (filling point + useful dispel)
What do you guys think of that? Does it make some sense? I could also include the Black Coach instead of Lady O if it's more synergistic.
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15 minutes ago, Paniere said:
Oh wow I missed it. Thanks
Clearly stated here.
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23 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Horrors can still go over max size with split and it looks like they can still be healed based on the current wording, models that flee count as having been slain (just like in aos 2) so rally isn't a pain anymore, although they've been VERY explicit about horrors not splitting when they flee.
Horrors look to be in a pretty good spot.
Cult of the transient form got it's teeth kicked in again though. They have no such exception, so now you need to roll a 6 on a kairic that dies within 9" of a unit of tzaangors that has suffered a casualty.
I'm trying to figure out where to find all the info. This is a real puzzle. Could you point me to where it says that Horrors can't split when they flee?
On the warscroll of Horrors, it states that whenever a model is slain, it can split. Then on the latest FAQ, it says at 15.0 (Tzeentch FAQ): "...Models that have fled are treated as having been slain for rules purposes, unless noted otherwise."
So to me, it says that if a Pink Horror flees, it can split because it's considered slain. Where do you see otherwise?
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24 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
Oh that is quite true when you do battle shock you can pick who runs. Meaning you can just have blues run away rather than lose whole pinks.
How are chaos knights?
That's actually a good point. What do we do when we have a mixed unit and some horrors need to flee? What's is priority? Pinks? Blues? Whatever we want?
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7 hours ago, Btimmy said:
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7 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
Basicly this.
The banner can also be used here Ina weird way.
If you kill all your pi k and then go under 30 horrors. You can then rally or heal your unit to bring back the banner, and if tin that turn you roll a battle shock and roll a 1 you may also use the banner to heal. This would work as long as you have less than mad size.
The FAQ says that ability let's you go over max, it does not change the rule to allow the unit to ignore the no giving over max rule entirely.
TLDR split works perfectly. But any other healing still has to be when you are under your units stating size.
This makes sense to me then. Split can exceed, other abilities can't.
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15 minutes ago, Paniere said:
Both statement are false, please take time to read through the rules carefully before posting to prevent spreading fake news:
1) You are allowed to heal/bring back slain models but if the unit is at its max size (starting size) , these additions are discarded. The only possible (and unlikely) scenarios for healing to actually happen are:
A) Your unit is reduced to less than 10 brimstones due to heavy casualties
B) Your unit is under it's max size because it failed a BS test badly AND it took advantage of petty vengeance at some point
2) Rule 1.2.2: models are "removed from play" if they are "slain" OR "flee". Precise distinction here, a model removed from play because it fled is NOT considered slain anymore
Wait what? I'm sorry, this is really hard to understand for me. Why would they write that the ability Split and Split Again can exceed the unit maximum size in the FAQ? I mean.. I don't get it. What is the scenario where this happens then?
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So, reading all your comments. I still have some confusion. Let's say that I have a group of 10 Pinks, and one dies. Split and Split Again triggers, and I can add 2 Blues, right? Making my unit 11 models. Is that a correct assumption?
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The new FAQ is out.
It specifies that Split and Split again allows to exceed maximum unit size. There's also new scrolls for our endless spells.
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6 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
1) Bombing = Petty vengeance. Instead of Split and Split you can use Petty Vengeance when a pink dies to deal a Mortal on a 5+
2) If you have any Pinks you have to allocate wounds to them before Blues; And even if that weren't the case, wounds are applied before models are removed. So you can't apply the wounds to the split models until all the models are removed from that set of attacks.
Edit: let me double check how much of #2 still applies in 3e. Yep, still checks out. Most people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how allocating damage, slaying and removing models works. This is because of bad habits they pick up from watching battle reports. People work under the assumption that you apply wounds and remove models many times during the attack sequence. But you dont apply wounds to models until ALL attacks are resolved. And models arent removed until all the damage is applied to the unit.
That's how I would tend to think as well. Wait until all damage is done. Then allocate damage to all pinks first, according to rules.
So it brings this question for me: What about the unit summoned by the Gaunt Summoner: 5 pinks? Does this count as an understrength unit and it can thus go over the limit of 5 when you split with blues? I'm not sure I understand the rule you guys are talking about. Is there a rule that says that a unit can't be reinforced larger than its initial size? If so, what about the unit of 5 pinks?
If you guys could demystify that, I'd appreciate it.
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Hey guys,
So, I have a question about the Gaunt Summoner. I read that in general he's way over costed and basically unplayable. I'm kind of new to Tzeentch as I've been building an Arcanite army slowly over the past month or so but I find him to be very compelling. He's 255pts (that's a lot), but he is a double caster with a pretty good horde spell and he brings 25 wounds on the table for free, whenever he wants to. That's not nothing. What am I missing here?
Now, with the new points, my 1k list Arcanite got all fussed up and I was thinking of still taking this guy in my 1k list. Would look a little like this:
PYROFANE CULT
1x Fatemaster (General) - 135pts
1x Ogroid Thaumaturge - 165pts
1x Gaunt Summoner - 255pts1x20 Kairic Acolytes - 150pts
1x10 Tzangors - 195pts1000pts flat.
I feel like Gaunt Summoner is a good addition to my list as I get more spell casting and he does bring 25 wounds on the table. Am I missing something obvious about him?
Thanks
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13 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Actually both should. We get a point whenever a spell is cast and not unbound, it doesn't need to be a tzeentch wizard to do it. We generate them from our opponents spellcasts so theres no reason we wouldnt get them from an ally.
The description for the blue scribes says on a roll of 2+ the spell is automatically cast, which means it should also generate a FP unless i'm missing something.
With the new coherency rules I would avoid skyfires in 6s, I used them like that in aos2 and it was fine, but you end up losing out on a lot of melee output in 6s now because of the new coherency rules.
Would this be also true for Enlightened on Disc? They have a reach of 2", I feel like they could still all be in coherency and hit. Did I misunderstand the new rule?
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I managed to finish and paint my Fatemaster conversion. I thought I'd post it here. Thanks to some of you who shared theirs many, many pages back. It sure inspired me.
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12 hours ago, WargamerRyguy said:
Quick question, when you pay 100 points to take 10 Blue Horrors, do you also get to split those 10 into 10 brimstone horrors when the Blue ones die, without paying additional points? Thanks
Yes. They're all part of the "Horrors of Tzeentch" warscroll now.
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On 4/5/2021 at 3:50 AM, Aeryenn said:
I've encountered another problem. The warscroll says that only one model in a unit can be a Kairic Adept. Unfortunately the unit's boss is called so, then another with a dark scroll is also Kairic Adept and the one with a bird as well. Does that mean I have to choose or i can have all three as this "one per unit" only refers to the boss?
They have different mentions in the scroll and it's pretty clear. The Adept is the boss of the unit (there's only one) then the guy with Scroll of Dark Arts, one per 10, and Vulcharch guy, one per 10. You can choose to put less if you want. I didn't even know these other two were called adepts. Just stick to what the warscroll says
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1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:
Ok, I'm really confused now. I'm building my first Kairic Acolyte 20men unit. The warscroll says that 3 in every 10 models can use Glaives. That means a unit of 20 can use 6 of those guys. Now....
I find that there are only 4 Glaives on the box (pic, parts 69 and 70) since Kairic Adepts weapon is called a blade (though it looks much more similar to a glaive than a blade). So, what is the truth behind that?
This had me confused too but I do believe that the Adepts weapon is the same category as the glaives. That would hence, count as 3 per 10. It's the only way it makes sense. Also if you notice, on GW website, the Adept has a sword so this glaive could be given to someone else too.
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Hey guys, I've tried to use the search engine on TGA and couldn't find the answer I'm looking for and Google also had mostly old info (pre new battletome).
Any advice on building tzaangors with shields or dual blades for a unit of 10 or a unit of 20?
Hope someone can help out.
Thanks!
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21 minutes ago, KaptainWalrus said:
Thanks, lots of good stuff to look through.
The Fatemaster seems like my next pick-up. Not sure if I want to do the standard Arhiman conversion, or go for something else. Just too bad he can't cast any spells, I'm curious why they removed that, since in all the history of Tzeentch lords, they were wizards and warriors.
Yeah, that's the conversion I want to do too (Ahriman). I mean when you look at the old sculpt, Ahriman looks exactly like a good version of this guy. He has the same leaning pose, the horned helmet, the complex shoulder pads, the long cape, etc. To me it really seems like a natural fit. I'm still wondering what kind of blade I will use instead of the top of his staff. I'll see the leftover bits I have. I think an enlightened spear would fit well. I just don't want to have his weapon be the same as them. Maybe a cut off, acolytes blade. Let me know if you have other ideas. Also of note, Fatemaster is on a 60mm base. The web description says 40mm but the latest FAQ chart says 60mm. Definitely something to keep in mind.
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8 minutes ago, KaptainWalrus said:
Hello, just starting in with Tzeentch and I'm looking for some opinions and insight on where I should expand my current collection.
I love the bird theme of Tzeencth, so I want to lean heavy into it. Right now I have, and want to include the following:
Lord of Change-(weapon option TBD)
Tzaangor Shaman
20x Tzaangors
6xSkyfires
6xEnlightened on discs
These together sit at 1650, which leaves 350 points to play with.
So my main question; where do I expand the collection from here? I know I need at least another hero to start with. Only thing, is I can't decide between a Fatemaster, Curseling or another Shaman.
Do I grab some Acolytes for objective camping and more ranged? Go whole hog on the Tzaangors and get more? Do I care about Endless Spells?
*Note, not a huge fan of the deamons in general, other than the Lord of Change.
Hey there, I suggest you read the last 3-4 pages of the thread, they might prove useful to you. I asked some questions about the Battlebox (arcanite focused) and folks gave very insightful info. RunCMD even started to write a little guide on how to collect Tzeentch. Personally, I wanted to go the Acolyte route and Pyrofane Cult seems to be the most competitive build for this type of focus. The Fatemaster seems to be mandatory for that type of build, too.
Now, you have a lot of Tzaangors so I can't really give any advice as I'm also starting the army. However, many questions that you ask should, I think, really be answered by you first
It all depends on what you want to play and then try to tailor it to make it good. My guess is that if you go heavy Tzaangors you could definitely use some Acolytes and try to go for cult of the Transient Form and tailor your army for that.
Endless Spells all have their uses I think but the Tome seems to have the most potential.
Finally, I found this guide here: https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-disciples-of-tzeentch-tactics/
It's very insightful.
I hope this helps. Good luck
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Hey guys, at which point does the Tzaangors Shaman becomes really valuable in your list building, regarding Enlightened and stuff? I'm wondering because my starting project is a 1k list with the following base:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (180)
Total: 800 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 57
I have room for another hero and here are the 3 options I'm considering:
- A Tzaangor shaman an extra CP for 200pts flat. This will synergize with enlightened but I wonder if he's worth it if I only have 3 enlightened on discs.
- An Ogroid Thaumaturge and the Tome as an Endless spell (also 200pts). He would provide some additional punch and nice MW output.
- Finally, a Fatemaster and an extra CP (for 190pts) this one would synergize with the acolytes more for the shooting.
I was wondering what option you guys think is stronger. Eventually I know I will add Acolytes and will get both the Fatemaster and Shaman but for the 1k build, is there a better option? Thanks in advance
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7 hours ago, Ganigumo said:
Shields are generally better. 2/5 tzaangors have greatweapons which have an expected damage of .5 with no buffs or the extra attack for 9+ models. 1/5 Tzaangors is a mutant with paired blades and an extra attack with an expected damage of .5 with no buffs or the horde bonus. (Greatweapons beat out mutants with the extra attack, since they double the number of attacks).
Paired savage blades have an expected damage of .33 shieldgors have an expected damage of .25
Shields are generally better because so many of the models have special weapons that the normal tzaangors often don't contribute much to the fighting. For a 10 man unit you might get some extra value out of paired blades but in a 20 man they'll rarely contribute.
Also you can make the unit captain use a greatblade.
That's great info! Thank you very much. I guess I will build paired blades for my unit of 10 with 1 shield in, to start, and when I get another unit, I'll put shields on everyone who doesn't have a special weapon.
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Hi guys, I have a rather specific question. I've looked at the Tzaangors warscroll to figure out how to equip them and they have quite a few options. Taking into account that I'm building towards a Pyrofane Cult build with Tzaangors being the front line, is it ok for me to equip them with dual blades? I was thinking, shield on acolytes, double blades on Tzaangors to maximise damage. Do I put any shield in the unit? If so how many do you suggest?
Also, should Tzaangors always be played in groups of 20min? Since they have a buff when they are more than 9 models in the unit. I was wondering if a unit of 10 would be too squishy?
Thanks
edit: my unit has 10 models in it and maybe upgrade to 20 in the future, in case it helps.
Would you prioritize Olynder or Black Coach at this level?
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
What about Pyrofane Cult though? I felt like from the guides and comments here, it was pretty good.