Landohammer
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Posts posted by Landohammer
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3 hours ago, Nixon said:
I know this is a hard one, but coming back from a hiatus and finding out a new tome is on its way, what do you think will be good baseline units for an up to date competitive list?
Impossible to say. We have literally only seen 2 warscrolls. One was great and one was terrible lol. Our entire battleline system and allegiance abilities are probably changing.
Personally a single unit of Gossamids will be an auto-include for me. And context clues are telling us that the melee builds for Kurnoth Hunters will likely be solid, if expensive.
The Echoes of Doom box is definitely a good start, just build the Kurnoth Hunters as melee.
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Yea there just isn't a need for tanky archers. Especially when we have Gossamids for ~40 less points. And gossamids have a 24" threat range which isn't exactly shabby.
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9 hours ago, RuneBrush said:
+++ MOD HAT +++
Gentle remind folks. Firstly we do have a no potato picture policy on TGA, we have been fairly chilled on it recently for a few bits. Secondly, please try to avoid putting up fakes - get's people's hopes up and we spend far too long debating something that isn't real!
Just for everyone's information, the fake Blood Stalker warscroll is already making the rounds in my local FB group.
Admittedly the "NotWhiteFang" name cracked me up, but these do more harm than good.
Now excuse me while I go breakup multiple fights between some DoK, NH, and HoS players.
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Thoughts on Bow Kurnoth.
There is no getting around it. They are still trash. Regarding potential allegiance abilities: People said the same thing about Crossboos but they are still terrible (and they are a brand new kit!). There is only so much you can do with a bad warscroll. I see no reason to take these guys over Gossamids, unless there is a double tap or hero phase command ability available to double their use.
HOWEVER the standard 3+ save is absolutely HUUUUGEE for the melee versions of kurnoth, putting you on a 2+ in cover or with All out Defense. New Envoys also has some potential under the right circumstances: Imagine charging two big units of Kurnoth into combat, popping all out attack and hitting the 4+ so they both benefit.
Previously we had to jump through a lot of hoops (TLA, camping in cover, or not piling in) to get to the 3+. So we were very vulnerable to a lot of low rend attacks. Now we can get to a "real" 2+ so rend 0 and rend 1 aren't as effective vs us.
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7 hours ago, Frowny said:
@RorsThis is basically where I ended up.
One challenge I can see with the army as a whole is how to keep your defenses up in their turn. -1 to be hit, and for harridans -1 to be wounded are great but its also only during your turn when you can already pick your engagements. Nothing is particularly strong defensively, even with the 5++ ability active. I think corner pinning charges will be key.
Also, what do people hope to do if given turn 1?
I do know that many battleplans with even 18 inch starts, it will be very hard to do much damage. 8 inch movement on most things leaves a 10 inch charge, and deepstrike charges for a 9+ are just as unreliable. Neither seems very likely to do much. Thus why I ended up with hexwraiths to either screen or move 24 and make a 15 inch long wall to maintain board presence.
I'm not sure what else is available for a turn 1 attack- I think the deepstrike happens at start of movement phase, so you can't deepstrike and then cast close range spells, so it seems like board positioning is the best that can be done.
Some allied direwolves as a big screen at least seem cheap and can keep up.
This army really seems like it would want t2 for the chance at the double and targets within 8inch move charge range and 12 inch spell range.
Not much as changed for us regarding turn 1. You either screen and prepare for the alpha or you deepstrike and hope for the 9+.
The coach is still a pretty good tool for sending into your opponents lines early on, and with its teleport and base size, it can really muck up your opponents movement plans.
I think the trick to winning with our army is to mitigate what charges your opponent makes on their turn, so you can rush forward and capitalize on WOT during your own turn. So screens and tarpits still have a lot of value.
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18 hours ago, King Dust said:
Time for more Wyld Predictions (in the form of rule speculation)!
Gossamid Archers - Based on the description in the stream "magic arrows that become bugs that eat your face" I'm guessing mortal wounds but probably not a high volume of attacks and limited range (12-15"). Probably squishy but able to retreat and shoot or else have some other "stay out of combat" survivability. Probably 130-150 pts range? Maybe more if they have 2 wounds and hit at all hard.
Lady of Vines - They said she'd be a wizard with summoning and buffs. I would have loved to see a hero in the 150-200pts range, but I bet she ends up closer to 250 because of the summoning. 7-10 wounds, probably hits like tissue paper but hopefully has cool flexibility otherwise.
Spiterider Lancers - They were described as shock cavalry. Compared to idoneth eels. I bet that's accurate and not much else to discuss. 150-180 for 3 depending on how hard they hit. 3 wounds each? I doubt they can teleport like infantry revs, but maybe they have a start of game drop in that isn't dependent on woods?
Revenant Seekers - Mounted combat medics? Yes please. I'm guessing 10" move (compared to 14 or 16 for the lancers) and then rules similar to the fyreslayers hero with improved rallies or boosts to Verduous Harmony that are dependent on models dying nearby. Hard to estimate points, but I hope they are decently resilient, especially since I don't expect them to be particularly killy.
How stupid will this post make me look in hindsight? Cant' wait to find out!Gossamids: Based on how the NH were treated in their new book, I think mortal wound shooting is a thing of the past. I am also curious how insect projectiles will translate into game rules tho. I am assuming either a lot of low rend attacks (think d6 hits per shot) or perhaps even a debuff like -1 to hit.
Lady of Vines: They specifically said she would be similar to Drycha in terms of output. So probably around 300pts. Likely a jack of all trades unit with casting, shooting and decent fighting. Also note they mentioned she would have access to summoning. So I am thinking she is more like a supercharged branchwraith.
Lancers: Spot on. This unit will probably be one of our biggest gains. Previously we have had to rely on allies for fast shock units.
Seekers: I wouldn't be suprised if these guys weren't wizards like Sisters of the Thorn. But having access to buffed Rally also makes sense. It was very interesting that there were only two pictured. I'm curious if a hero build option is possible?
Overall this reveal was about the best I could have hoped for. I love the bug/fairy aesthetic and our basic troop options essentially just doubled. My main concern at this point is that they get Spites Revenants and allegiance abilities right. But so far I am very optimistic! Also the endless spells need some love!
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10 minutes ago, Mutton said:
It's hilarious to me that a multi-billion-dollar company won't pay an artist to draw new covers for their $60 books.
People still buy the books?
I found it weird they spent so much time on the one skaven model but didn't even touch on Nighthaunt or DOK which are supposed to be imminent. Like, couldn't we have gotten a date?
Sylvaneth models blew my mind though. They are on another level.
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I'm just not seeing all the Myrmourn love. At 26pts per wound, and capped at 8 models, they aren't going to net much return on their points.
Units of 4 are doubly useless, because 4 aren't strong enough to wipe a unit, and return attacks will wipe out every banshee in combat that hasn't swung yet. Not to mention they bleed points to shooting like nothing else.
Their anti-magic is strong in theory, but it can be avoided by simply targeting another unit.
6 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:Am I the only one real sad about the Black Tome change?
Having access to the Arcane Tome essentially made the midnight tome redundant. I actually think its one of our more powerful items considering the damage output of the Shyish Reaper or Mortalis. But personally I will be taking the Lightshard most of the time.
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5 hours ago, lare2 said:
On Dreadscythe, I really loved them prior to this book but I can't seem to get them to work, in theory. Anyone any ideas?
On a related note, disappointed to see there's only 1 crone allowed per 10. My units are now illegal... fortunately I've a number of unbuilt spares.
They work just fine. You just have to keep them in units of 10 and multi-charge them. Like I said earlier, I support them with either a Kruciator or a black coach to make sure I plink wounds off before they activate.
Just make sure you avoid units with standard 3+ saves. You absolutely do not want these ladies running into a potential 2+ save. Thats what Kurdoss and the Coach are for.
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1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:
Only realized just now. We didn't get free faction terrain.
This is a win. Trust me. Sylvaneth is my main army and having to transport a separate container just for forests (that often never make it to the table) is a nightmare.
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14 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:
Their damage output is really weak. However they play very nice with Harridans who need a big model to be wounded or slain chaff in the current turn. Even against 3+ saves you're almost guaranteed to plink off a wound, so they can make Harridans stay supercharged indefinitely
Also I'm pleasantly surprised they got a 4+ save. The card you get in Arena of Shades shows them at a 5+.
They're in a weird spot, along with Banshees and Glaivewraiths. On the one hand, among our cheapest units, on the other hand too situational to be a mainstay of the army. That's why I rate the ability to become battleline really low on them. But they certainly do have their uses
Personally I'll try them with Lady Olynder to snipe support characters. On a 4+ save hero they'll easily deal 2 damage and Lady O hopefully deals d6(+1) mortal wounds.
Hmm, makes me wonder if a second unit with Dreadblade Harrow would be worth it. As Lady O always counts as general, when she issues All-Out attack for the first Crossboos, the Dreadblade will copy it for free for the second Crossboos.
I can't see any situation where Crossboos are a relevant take. A single kruciator brings a lot more to the table, is more survivable, AND can reliably plink wounds to buff harridans. If I truly wanted meaningful shooting output I would spam Chainghasts, bring Olynder, or bring a shooty Black Coach build.
24 minutes ago, frostfire said:Are Bladegheist still worth taking?
I think so. If I had to make a prediction on what the "net list" NH list would be, it would be bladegheist revenant spam in Scarlet Doom. The relatively reliable mortal wound output and battleline status is hard to pass up.
I think our biggest weakness is going to be having to deal with high save units popping all-out-defense, since ALOT of our profiles have no rend. Bladegheists shine here, especially if they hit that magic 8+ charge roll.
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5 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:
If we are heading into the Age Of Incarnate then tactics against them is going to be a fundamental question for anyone using the new book when it drops. How badly did it disrupt your ethereal options for extra Wave of Terror attacks? Any quagmires or did Craven King’s battle against it feel right? Was its battle location(s) good or bad for your getting VPs (i.e. was it costing your opponent more to bring it or was it his MVP)?
The "no retreat" rule DEFINITELY messes us up bad. Fortunately I have played a few games vs it and somewhat expected that though. The two big problems the incarnate causes me is A) it has a huge reroll charge aura that is extremely powerful for deepstrike armies like nurgle and B) it is essentially invulnerable for two turns, giving it the ability to guarantee two activations without any significant bracketing.
That being said, our ethereal is a good match for all of its high rend attacks, if a bit swingy. For example I popped discorporate and rolled hot and only took 1 damage on Kurdoss. Though in the next combat it murdered an entire unit of Bladegheists.
I can't imagine there are many books that would be worse off by taking an Incarnate (maybe the overperforming books like DoK or seraphon). He adds a lot to whatever army he is in and he is a 400pt monster that is guaranteed to stay on the table for 2 turns. Hard to find fault with that.
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Looks like the internet is split 50/50 on if this is a Snotling or a Spite riding the bug. I am leaning toward Spite but the underwear is throwing me off lol.
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13 minutes ago, Boggler said:
Did you know what your opponent was playing beforehand?
I'm not down on Dreadscythes. They seem really good, they just aren't their old scroll which isn't that old!
Getting the most out of the new scroll likely isn't that hard either. The 6" within is possible in a lot of situations and if you're choosing to activate them 2nd or 3rd they'll be at -1 to hit/wound if you want and be close to something that was slain.
The new Processions allow you to customize your list if you have an overall plan of what you want to achieve.
Dammit! I have to buy a Black Coach?
In this case I did not know what my opponent was bringing before I made my list. But honestly I NEVER tailor a list to an opponent. I like dreadscythes and I always wished they could be battleline. So my list basically built itself.
Yea harridans are definitely a high skill unit. The impact hits from the coach (or maybe even hexwraiths or Drowner) are ideal since it lets the harridans activate first with the buff already active.
Also I was using Discorporate in just about every situation I could. Its essentially our All out Defense.
Honestly i think our new wave of terror rules are really where the strength lies. It wasn't that uncommon for me to nail two 8+ charges and put a unit at -2 armor save and of course the Always Strike Last effect is super powerful. I got one of those as well.
Honestly I felt like I should have won the game TBH. But we were playing Tectonic Interference and I had consistently bad rolls on the Alpha objective (it was nearly always favorable to my opponent) and the Incarnate was a HUGE problem to deal with.
I think with a bit more practice (and not relying on potato cam photos) I can probably compete with most armies.
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Played a game with new rules using Quicksilver Dead vs Nurgle w/Incarnate
List was 3x10 Harridans, 2x10 bladegheist, 2x8 myrmourn, kurdoss, and kruciator.
Lost 25-26, here is my hot take.
The Good
-Kurdoss is an absolute beatstick in melee. He single handedly put 20+ wounds on the incarnate over the course of the game and bashed in several strong units. Also stole 2CP as well!
-Harridans are amazing on the charge, but getting the enemy unit wounded before they strike is tricky. They pair well with the Kruciator since he can plink wounds off before they charge and his -1 damage combos well with their -1 to wound and potential -1 to hit.
-Harrdians in quicksilver dead hitting a 8+ on the charge actually put nurgle in multiple situations where they got no save OR ward. I can't stress how powerful felt to just pour wounds into a unit without ANY saves. I killed entire units of plagebearers in a single round which NEVER happens otherwise.
-The black coach was an absolute menace. A 4+/4++ with 12 wounds and a free teleport each turn was incredibly hard for my opponent to kill. He also did 7 mortals with this explosion.
The Bad
-Myrnmourn didn't do anything of value. My opponent didnt have much magic and just shot them off early. I think I will pass on them in the future. Their points per wound is absolutely insane and they burned valuable reinforcement points.
-The effectiveness of our units seems to rely entirely on getting the charge off. I bled a lot of points in my opponents turn and a few key failed charges were devastating.
Verdict
Overall I am really digging the new book. There is still a lot to sort through (I'm honestly torn between Emerald Host, Scarlet Doom, and Quicksilver Dead) but it looks to be a solid mid-tier book overall with the ability to perform better with higher skill and thats exactly what I wanted.
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14 hours ago, King Dust said:
I'm excited for the new tome. I've seen a lot of wishlists for balance changes, and we obviously need a bit of a bump. I do want to talk about one thing that I hope doesn't change much or at all: Tree Revenants.
They are really well balanced in that they are super useful (and are taken in most sylvaneth lists) but not spammable. Their teleport and charge re-rolls make them really reliable utility tools, and I think the balance is exactly right as is. Make them too killy and that glass hammer can get tossed around wherever which is part of why the living cities/fulminators combo is such an issue right now. Make them too resilient and then you can effectively spam Scinari Loreseekers and muck up your enemies shooting and/or movement as much as you want. So yeah, hats off to the Tree Revenant, one of the most interestingly balanced units in the game imo.I agree. I think our battleline options are fundamentally broken, but the Tree Revenants have remained a solid take for the last two books. However if we get battleline unlocks (like literally every book in 3rd so far) then its possible they will become less of an auto-include.
But if we have to lose the super-useful teleport of tree-revs to get more effective battleline options I won't complain. A well balanced book means all of the options will have equal appeal, even if some units have to take a step down in capability.
I am tired of taking minimum battleline vs armies made entirely of battleline. We shouldn't be limited to 5+ save 16pt per wound units IMHO.
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21 minutes ago, Jymmy said:
I find it funny how they try to circumvent its own rules. They capped the +1 stacking only to add rules that change the hit/wound value.
The other thing that I midly dislike is the acumulation of faction rules, specialy the ones that make you keep track of things or that add more rules depending on the round… is not the amount of bloat the 40k has, but I’m under the impression that they are following the same steps.
I like the allegiance abilities that change with the round. They keep things interesting over the course of many games and also act as a kind of balancing mechanism since the most powerful buffs are only around for a limited time.
We are definitely seeing an emergence of these kinds of rules in the SM doctrines, deepkin tides, nurgle wheel, necron powers and I think chaos knights and chaos marines are getting something similar
In the case of DOK it incentivizes striking them early. And I like that it can be played around.
There are very few situations in AOS where I feel overwhelmed with rules. As opposed to 40k where its definitely an issue.
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5 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
In a sense this is exactly my point. You are talking about barriers to entry for tournament players. Likely you're an established long time player of this army. Are you going to generate a lot of revenue for GW if they fix the books with the current range?
If they make the army appealing to new players is that going to generate sales?
I don't think anyone every implied selling Sylvaneth to new players was your problem.
It is hard to remove ones vested interest at their level with what to expect. People wish list like crazy in these forums when the spark of a new army is hinted. Other than generating a lot of digital traffic it really doesn't do or mean anything.
My central point is that I want the book to be balanced regardless of how that impacts the appeal of the army to new players. Maybe we are on the same page?
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17 hours ago, Popisdead said:
I've long wished for the Treelord to be what it was in 6th edition. Impossible to break as a stalwart defensive point. Such as -1 dmg or a -1 to Wound. Just some mechanic that it becomes harder to take down a treelord.
One of the biggest things is it changes the entry-level for the game. Since prices are going up, reducing the cost of having to buy into an army is helpful. From GWs view if someone with enough casual hobby money to spend sees Sylvaneth as a buy-in with a Getting-Started or two gets a realistic buy-in, they will sell more armies. If with the cost increase you still have to buy a lot of stuff,... people won't jump at that.
I still stand by that Sylvaneth are getting the long awaited Elf release akin to how Slaanesh got a significant Mortal release for their book. Kurnous as a large kit (akin to Glutos), then a cavalry kit (those centaur spear guys), and a bow/CC infantry kit. Possibly a Huntsmaster in some form (thinking of the Lion in the Shadespire release). Maybe a caster and infantry hero as well.
If i had to bet Montgomery Burns for a coke, I would wager what I've said as the release.
At this point I am long past being concerned about barrier of entry prices. The forest spamming and spite revenant cost per model put us easily into the top 3 most expensive armies to start. Lets face it, most of us already have the entire range anyway. Selling Sylvaneth to new players is GW's problem, not mine.
I hope you are right about Kurnothi but I am doubtful. However the two sylvaneth flags displayed in the teaser does give me some hope that our release may be a bit more substantial than previously expected. Current expectations are the battletome and a boxset that includes a new hero. Perhaps a new unit in that boxset like nighthaunt got.
GW releasing a fully Kurnothi half of the box would be simply amazing. Your example of Slaanesh mortals does give me hope!
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Could be a new Chaos Spawn model for the Chaos Space Marine book. Looks like it has bloodthirster wings, crab legs, human hands, and tzeentch fire (and maybe a fat nurgle leg). Might even be some kind of greater Chaos Spawn.
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On 4/23/2022 at 6:08 PM, Aezeal said:
I've not paid attention to the other books and what happend there so I'll just take everything you say as truth. But if monsters get stronger and more expensive then list building might be harder since we often use an above average number of monsters (well I think we do at least). Mainly because TLA and Drycha are very good choices atm ofc.
I'd prefer the TLA command ability stays since it's the only good one we have
I disagree. The meta is mostly dominated by strong monsters. And the Sylvaneth lists that do manage wins aren't the ones taking the big tree heroes.
As it stands our monsters are only taken for 2 reasons competitively. (and I say "competitively" knowing full well we aren't competitive in any real sense). Either as a means to make our 1 good unit better (TLA supporting Hunters) or as a mobile source of mortal wound shooting to get by AOD (Drycha).
I am 100% on board with Treelords becoming 300-400pts monstrosities that people fear. We don't need discount 180pt monsters (Hunters are always going to be better) and we have way too many ~300pt heroes. We need roster diversity.
On 4/23/2022 at 8:07 PM, Lanoss said:I have a hard time thinking Hunters will become battleline (EVEN THOUGH THATD BE FRIGGIN AWESOME!)
I dunno, there’s a lot to break down and they’ll likely be quite different to how they are now, but if I see them become battleline I’d expect them to not be ‘stronger’ in the new book
At this point, ANYTHING can be battleline. We have dragon, leviadon, stegadon, terrorgeists, felwater trolls, eels, blood Knights, Ironguts, etc, etc, etc as battleline.
So I fully expect some version of them to become battleline. I just assume there will be some kind of cost. For example, locking them to a specific subfaction that is particularly weak. Or requiring a certain expensive hero to be General.
The real test of the sylvaneth book (other than our core allegiance rules becoming more substantial) is if they do anything to make Spites and Dryads more appealing. But like I said in my other post, based on the Fyreslayer and Deepkin books, they don't appear to be modifying core troops much.
However, plaguebearers are the exception. Those guys received an entirely new warscroll. So who knows at this point! Man I wish this book would hurry up!
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4 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:
Yeah I wonder how much of TOW is banking on players using their existing WHFB armies? It would take an entire factory unto itself to release several TOW armies at once. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial release was only 2 factions (Empire vs Chaos as my guess if TOW is doing Magnus) and it took another couple years to push out the elves and orcs and other beasties.
I would keep an eye on how GW handles the Horus Heresy 2nd edition launch for a guide to how they will handle the mass update of many factions.
I can't imagine they would only provide rules for 2 chapters upon launch. Surely all armies would get a PDF to tie them over. I mean if I can't play my preferred chapter then I'm likely to hold off buying anything. But thats just me personally.
For models I imagine that many existing models can be retrofitted to function in old word armies. For example a skeleton, zombie, bloodletter, treelord, chaos warrior etc haven't really changed. So I don't see a reason whey they wouldn't have Day 1 rules to some extent. Even if their faction wasn't fully fleshed out yet.
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So if we want to take some guidance from the recent book updates, most notably Deepkin and Fyreslayers:
Its not likely our core infantry models will change all that much. Simplification seems to be the common theme and our units are pretty simple. Most of the big changes to recent books revolve around allegiance/sub allegiance updates, monsters and heroes.
Monsters - Monsters seem to be getting significantly scarier, with significantly higher point costs. Look to the Leviadon and Magmadroths. Both are pretty terrifying now and the Leviadon is now 500pts. (up ~100pts).
How this will impact us: I'm betting Treelords become more expensive, but a lot tougher.
Heroes - Similar to monsters, heroes got better but with marginal cost increases. And auto-takes were adjusted. For example the Akhelian King (formerly just an ok hero tax) became an insane beatstick. The cheaper heroes were mildly retooled and made more appealing.
How this will impact us: The branchwych, arch revenant, and branchwraith will probably get reworked into different roles. Our monster heroes will likely come at a premium but become significant battlefield presences.
Allegiance abilities - This is where the true power of the book will likely come. The deepkin tides were expanded and buffed (and they were arguably a decent book already). And the sub factions no longer lock your traits/artefacts. Battleline unlocks were altered/added.
How this will impact us- battleline unlocks of Treelords, and potentially even Kurnoth. Expansion of our allegiance rules to a significant degree.
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4 hours ago, That Guy said:
If you care so much for it going wild just take the Incarnate Masters of Ghur battalion. Only when all units die from the bat. does he go wild. And it’s a one drop, so at best you’ll probably be a 2 drop army, which is not bad for basically making sure your incarnate doesn’t go wild. What’s nice is that the bonded hero can be over 10W too so take an Eidolon of the sea for Idoneth for example, now the eidolon benefits from better casts, unbinds, dispels and the incarnate doesn’t go wild before it dies and all units from the battalion. For Nighthaunt though, i guess it puts less pressure on your smaller hero being assassinated, now you actually don’t have to hide anywhere.Is it confirmed that the new Thondian book is officially the new matched play setting? There seems to be some confusion in my group as to whether this is an optional supplement or an actual GHB level matched play update.
If so that battalion might give me some piece of mind lol. And being one-drop is just icing on the cake.
6 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:As with so many things Nighthaunt; it wouldnt take much for the Mournghul to be worthwhile again.
An Olynder aoe shriek, a 6" pile-in, either a few more wounds or going back to a 3+ ethereal save, its just so close to being good.
I honestly do feel like they will adjust ethereal with the game-wide all out defense and mystic shield universals being denied us
I know a lot of us are annoyed at just how terrible our only monster continues to be, but I wouldn't count on the Mourngal getting an update in the codex. GW doesn't typically update FW warscrolls in their codexes. We will need to wait on another Monstrous Arcanum update, and unfortunately those are painfully rare.
AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion
in Sylvaneth
Posted
Agreed. Will need to see how Dryad warscrolls look to really get a sense of her value, but as it stands she seems pretty much good at everything lol. Fast, hitty, shooty, casty, buffy and VERY resilient.
The reference to "Overgrown" terrain characteristic is tripping me up though bc my local group doesn't use those rules. Looks like i'm gonna be starting a campaign to start enforcing them at tournaments 🤣