CeleFAZE

Let us know how it works out. I've been a bit disappointed with the performance of my army when I don't focus on depravity generation, but if you can make it work I'd love to hear how it went. There's just so much cool stuff I want to run that isn't 2-3 keepers.

I agree with a lot of that, especially having at least one KoS, as their command ability is a major force multiplier. However I've found the epitome is really helpful against caster heavy lists with rerollable unbinds. Considering the prevalence of caster- dependent lists at the moment I might even start including enrapturesses in more of my lists alongside the epitome to help in that regard.

I can't foresee a situation where I'd ever run a chariot without a bladebringer. Only corner case would maybe be for battleline seeker chariots in a godseekers list, but I'm not terribly convinced that there's a good reason to do that.

I've actually considered running more exalted chariots and less keepers recently. It really feels like my keepers have been bouncing off of enemies more nowadays and dying with alarming speed, and chariots don't degrade as they take damage. They also throw out ludicrous amounts of attacks and a steady stream of mortal wounds, as well as being really efficient to summon with depravity points. With what you have you could probably run an Epicurean Revellers list with two mobs of 30 daemonettes and a unit of 5 hellstriders as a cheap 3rd battleline. If you're concerned with numbers of drops you could split the daemonettes into 30 20 10 also. Epicurean is generally not seen as that great of a battallion, as its a lot of points that doesn't increase your damage ceiling, but just helps against heavily armored opponents, so it's better depending on your meta. Petrifex elite 3+ saves are actually where it mathematically gets good, so it might be decent now? It bears testing that I haven't had the chance to do. If there are a lot of 3+ saves in the new seraphon book it could prove to be better than before. Mounted daemonettes, seekers, are actually pretty good, but generally aren't seen in lists since you want to maximize heroes for depravity generation. I think you could get some mileage out of them though, as they'll pop up to 6 attacks a model in the turn after they cause any casualties. Generally you would just use them to run at obscene speeds to eliminate backline threats like unprotected characters and artillery. If you're not fielding keepers, you're going to probably want at least one, but maybe two Contorted Epitomes to give you a better shot at making your enemies strike last, and also give you an edge when it comes to magic. Since the errata changed locus to a 5+ you really want the extra chance the epitome provides, but keep in mind they are exceedingly fragile in combat.

If you can't afford keepers, the next best things are a bladebringer on exalted chariot for melee, and the contorted epitome for magic. I don't have much experience with beastmen, but they seem like they could get some decent mileage out of what the army has to offer.

Correct. The Lurid Haze is basically a more specialized version of the Invaders Host, and in exchange for having to take a specific command trait and item you get the ambush rule and a rather nice command ability that gives +1 to saves for a unit. If you're not taking the Syll'Esskan Host it's probably one of the strongest current options for us.

The way I read it is that one of the two must be that one. It was poorly worded, but I believe the plural form was meant to refer to the choices you have for the 2nd trait.

I can definitely understand using a great conversion, and I've also used that head for one of my chaos warrior champions. Right now the biggest limiting factor for marauders (aside from the huge unit footprint) is how terrible the old models are, and I'm currently exploring my options for suitable stand-ins that won't break the bank for me.

I would recommend expanding the marauders to 40 instead. Your list is heavy on the mortals, and marauders really want large numbers to keep their bonuses longer. It might be a good idea to swap the daemonettes out for a unit of hellstriders if you can (either weapon option is fine, though I consider clawspears to generally be the better pick). You won't really benefit much from such a large unit of knights, as they'll seldom all get into range. Either take a look at the slaanesh battalion from the slaves to darkness book (which is explicitly also a Slaanesh allegiance battalion) for a 6 inch pile-in, or split the unit into 2 5-man units. Also if you have the option to change it the sorcerer lord on manticore is a very strong pick, as their unique spell is basically a superior version of hysterical frenzy.

Correct. Also there are a number of entries that have no option to select a mark (mindstealer sphiranx, fomoroid, etc.) that you may want to include in your army, which would need to be allied in.

I may need to start running something close to this. My biggest issue at the moment is forgetting abilities during specific phases, and this seems more straightforward.

The problem with the warshrine is that aside from itself Archaon is the only model in your list that benefits from its effect, as its locked to mortal slaves to darkness units, not just mortal like it used to be. You'll get the same effect with a chaos sorc for fewer points in this list.

I can't speak regarding the other gods, but for Slaanesh, Shalaxi is a potentially viable choice, but bear in mind that they cannot be summoned. Some players will be okay with you using a model built as shalaxi for a summoned keeper (if you have enough depravity points and they've already been removed as a casualty), but I would try to magnetize the weapons if at all possible at the very least. Daemon princes can be useful in a slaanesh list, but their primary drawback is the lack of the hedonite keyword, resulting in an inability to benefit from a number of abilities, and also lacking the locus ability that has a chance to force enemies to potentially strike last in combat (offset somewhat by the prince's innate ability to fight first). For non-greater-daemon choices, the bladebringer on exalted chariot is actually quite effective, with a decent stock of wounds to generate depravity and respectable offense. Bear in mind that only incoming damage to your heroes and damage dealt by them with spells or attacks count for offensive depravity generation, so the mortal wounds from the chariot abilities don't result in any summoning points. Though with soul scent realistically capable of granting 3 additional attacks per enemy unit in 1" range it's a small price to pay. Also the Contorted Epitome is one of the best casters and dispellers in the game, before factoring in allegiance abilities. Slaanesh does offer a number of list building options that can still be viable, but you'll always be acutely aware that in the majority of cases taking more keepers would've been the more optimal choice. Also fiends are terrible because they're pretty good at what they do, but they're not heroes and you want heroes to be the ones taking on multi wound targets. Which is frustrating as the new models are rather brilliant. Hopefully this helps.

Has anyone tried the demonsteel contingent? I'm considering picking up a second soulgrinder and giving that a go.

I think the deciding factor is rend and our bonus exploding hits when at 20 or more models. This ability lets you get all of the optimal offensive use out of your marauders, before they've had a chance to take any casualties and revert to being only slightly worse offensively than chaos warriors.

I've been thinking, as generally a godseekers player, that the new subfaction's ability could be utilized best with marauders, since by the wording they change a die in the roll, rather than applying their own modifier. The problem then is that both units need to be at least 10 models which kinda runs counter to what godseekers wants to field. Maybe we couple it with a "buddy system" of marauders and a big block of daemonettes or chaos warriors. Hopefully they have another ability too, as what we've seen so far seems to only further entrench Invaders and Syll'Eske as the best hosts.

Do you use multiples of those heroes, or any additions for utility, like the epitome? Have you also tried chaos warriors or knights? I feel like comparatively hellstriders miss out on a lot of buffs and command abilities since they're all locked to the slaves to darkness keyword, but they're still probably objectively better than the same points of warriors or knights (who even with warshrine support underperformed for me), so I'm a bit torn.

My experiences with the epitome usually have been that if you have it close enough to the front that it can attack with its claws you're generally going to lose it on the return swing due to its 5+ save. I tend to keep mine within range of its 6" super-locus but decidedly out of actual combat when I can. On that note are people finding the epitome a useful ally choice for S2D? With 2 rerollable dispels, an AoE strike-last ability and a unique spell that grants rerolls as a debuff on the enemy that isn't faction locked, it would seem like you could do a lot worse for 200 points.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the list usually comprised of? I've tried doing the same thing but I've generally found it surprisingly weak.

I don't have high hopes, but I'd be overjoyed if you were right. If one of the subfactions allowed non-heroes to generate depravity I don't think I'd play anything else.

I'd love to see one that gives slaves the hedonites keyword and hedonites the slaves keyword, but very much doubt they'd do that. The lack of more than a unit of fully Slaaneshi mortals stings more now that S2D is so faction specific, and I don't see GW recognizing that as a problem. Instead I think we'll see some weird cornercase stuff that while cool isn't going to be good enough to unseat any existing hosts.

You don't really have the quantity of daemonettes to really get optimal use out of Epicurean Revelers, and it's a fairly expensive battalion. If this is what you have to work with model-wise, you could probably split the seekers into multiple smaller units and use the cavalcade instead, as the pile-in is super useful for cavalry. As it stands you'll struggle to get more than 5 seekers into combat at once, so the big unit will be very unwieldy. If you want to commit to Epicurean, you'll need more daemonettes, as even with frontage limitations the x2 extra hits for units above 20 is really useful. I would also put the rod of misrule on your enrapturess. The epitome wants to be dangerously close to the front to make the best use of its strike-last ability, and since the rod and her DP generation work anywhere on the board, you'll probably be more easily able to hide your enrapturess while still getting some work out of her. It's also good to have a "safe" hero for summoning if you take some really bad hits to your other leaders and need to resummon.

Run an epitome for sure if you're going without a keeper, it will give you two casts and dispels with rerolls, though without access to the keeper-tier spells. Also the epitome has a better version of locus it can use at the start of the combat phase that can hit multiple units. I think it may actually be one of our best models. On the upside, the keeper's command ability only works on hedonite keyword units, so if you're not running a keeper you could try using S2D or BoC units without much issue.

That would definitely make the battalion a reasonable upgrade price. It's a shame there isn't a way to mark BoC units without the warscroll battalions, as I think there's a lot of potential for things like bullgors, but I really dislike the idea of the added list taxes involved.

I'm considering trying it in a "take everything that normally is considered less than optimal on paper and see what it can actually do" list just for fun. I need to put together a second soulgrinder before I'm set for that, and I may need a second set of fiends, but I'll be sure to report on my findings. I think there's some great possibilities in our allegiance that don't synergize well with depravity points, and I wonder if it might be viable to just toss summoning to the wayside and lean into those options.