MKsmash
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Posts posted by MKsmash
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8 hours ago, Frowny said:
Yes
Unrelatedly, Has anybody tried using just regular stonehorn beastriders? The FLOSH gains a lot of versatility with traits and such, but I just did the good ol-math, and per point, a stonehorn beastrider does more damage than a FLOSH! Also, the blood vulture especially gives a bit of value on its own, plinking off crucial last wounds or reducing units to below critical buff thresholds. Finally, it is not quite as sturdy per point, but actually sturdier per point against very high rend attacks and sturdier against MW. And 100 points isn't nothing.
I'm currently enjoying my FLOSH w/ etheral amulet, but the math is having me think otherwise. And I'm trying to find points to squeeze in a few more odds and ends. But there is also something to be said for overkill- it brings confidence and reliability, which has value all of its own.
I've tried it out! It performed well, taking out Skarbrand in one hit, but was immediately targeted and died very quickly without the ethereal amulet. The durability is the only reason not to take it.
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Just now, Sartxac said:
You can't use skal, you need icebrow hunter's in order to use skal battalion.
He has one.
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1 minute ago, Walrustaco said:
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Icebrow Hunter (120)
- General
- Trait: Lord of Beasts
Butcher (140)
- Tenderiser
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
Battleline
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
Battalions
Skal (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
How about this?
That looks really nasty, tbh. I'll think I might try it out!
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3 minutes ago, Charleston said:
Morghasts seemed like the bigger threat.
They're not really that bad...
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3 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:
What are we thinking the (double) stonehorn plus gutbusters list consists of then?
FLoSH
Tyrant
Slaughtermaster
Butcher
12 ogor
8 Ironguts
2 leadbelchers
20 gnoblars
Goremand
Maybe less Ironguts and no goremand for 2 flosh
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14 minutes ago, Charleston said:
Had a game against nagash today and wow...that arcane bolt spam is terryfing. Lost really a lot of stuff only to Nagash and the Umbral Spellportal. As a full BCR player, getting even a single dispell is quite expensive, but this was...woah. Tilted right away as there was really nothing I could do, charging was no real option due to the chaff walls. Now I try to thing of an option how I could turn the game in my favor next time facing big uncle bones. any tipps?
Don't use TT's if you were. Try to take slaughtermasters whenever possible. Take lots of Stonehorns. I would suggest not using BCR, as they're not nearly as strong as gutbusters. Consider mostly Guts with a FLoSH or two.
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3 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:
This MSU style intrigues me. Right now I'm reading about the new Tzeentch Flamers, and how horrific their shooting power can be. Obscene firepower.
I feel like we could be in for a shooting meta. With changehost teleporting flamers and high-flying KO skyvessels popping up in our faces, maybe... just maybe, it's time to try Winterbite.
MSU by itself is a pretty good way to blunt massed shooting, but a -1 to hit on top of that doesn't hurt. Here's a dumb list I had in mind:
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Winterbite
Leaders
Icebrow Hunter (120)
- General
- Trait: Wintertouched
- Artefact: Frostfang
Firebelly (120)
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
Battleline
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
Units
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 190
It's a 20 drop list, what do you think? 😂
This is wonderful. Made my day. Only thing I would change would to be to fit in a slaughtermaster. Otherwise, it's amazing.
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On 12/23/2019 at 7:17 PM, EldritchX said:
I saw the faction focus for mawtibes with Doom and Darkness and Mick Wendel. It was depressing. They all said more or less that we're underpowered. The only thing that could be good was actually Underguts, and that leadbelchers and ironblasters are therefore invaluable.
Bloodgullet was the only other one that was considered not bad.
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9 minutes ago, Pitloze said:
I tried a few artefacts on him but the only one that was worth it I felt was the Bloodgullet artefact. So he can heal the dmg he causes to the ironguts lol
Though you lol at this, it might be a great combo now that I think about it.
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1 hour ago, Hebroseph said:
Shooting and mortal wounds answer a lot of problems with top lists, but there are plenty of people trying to make an Underguts list work
Sadly, Underguts aren't great under most circumstances. You're almost always bringing it for the command ability alone. It's nice when it works, but it's mostly a gimmick. Bloodgullet often hauls more ****** unless you're taking a whole lot of leadbelchers, who are too swingy.
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1 hour ago, Fundre said:
Another amazingly simple fix for Mournfang would be a 3+ save?? Alternatively just let them hit on 3s... both would make the 140pt price tag much more worthwhile
3+ save would make absolutely no sense with the lore though. That would make Mournfang have a better save than Stonehorns, which is rather ridiculous.
Hitting on 3's would be great though.
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On 12/6/2019 at 9:41 AM, Scurvydog said:
As I new player I can understand this but can't agree either, as this is basically the norm for every new tome to break some core rule. In fact besides how CP work, the reapers "break" far less than many other armies. The trademark of the top armies currently is to mess with the order things happen in phases, especially the combat phase, where you will see the strongest armies being able to dictate the flow, like fighting first no matter what you do. The Reapers do not do this and they do not limit YOUR gameplay and options in the same degree.
People need to discard the thought that OB just get free CPs. They completely discard one mechanic for another. Their battleline litterally have no abilities at all besides these discipline triggered abilities, so GW has made this a different economy, it is not like any other army has 0 rules for their units and need CP to activate those. It needs to be understood their entire allegiance abilties are centered around this mechanic, the nexus and the discipline points is what this army is all about.
Maybe as a new player you are not aware of all the allegiance abilties floating around, but many armies can summon completely new units to the tabe, force you to fight last no matter what in combat, teleport at will and so on and so on. GW made something new with the system, which is an economy that replaces something else, so it is a tradeoff too. Orruks for example in Big Waagh get both their Waagh points and CP as normal, but that is all part of an overall design, you can't just cherry pick pet peeves here and there.
Armies like Khorne and Fyreslayers already "broke" endless spells by having judgements and invocations doing the same thing, but with 0 risk at all. Slaanesh is also entirely immune to their own endless spell effects, the reapers can control their predatory spells, but suffer a -1 cast pentalty as long as they have it active.
The only thing this thread should be concerned with might be the Petrifex Elite legion which is insanely poorly balanced, it is too strong and gives the entire army a bad rep, which the Mortek Guard reroll ability magnifies. Any other legion is far from as oppressive. Against other legions games will be "regular" warhammer most of the time, they are one of the new tomes breaking the least rules, while just being strong in general.
Take this, a single Keeper of Secrets alone breaks far more rules of the core game than all of the OB book. 1 model can manipulate the fighting phase order, fight twice, auto hit with traits, summon more units by just killing and taking damage, force you to take mortal wounds or possibly die, heal itself from both attacks and spells.
Even regular legions of nagash can have entire units wiped out and replace them, recently with the reapers with 4+ unrendable saves in 30 man blocks which could be entirely replaced for 1 CP. Yet these lists fell from grace due to the above.
If GW just erratas petrifex with some nerfs, that should mostly fix the tome, and at that point it will just be a good tome but not a top 5 tome compared to others out there. They are certainly not the only ones in need of being brought in line.
This is very well-thought out, and everything is fine on paper. But I want to make sure of something first: have you fought the Bonereapers yet?
So much can be said about virtually any army just talking about them, so you actually have to play against it to determine if they're broken or not. I'm not doubting that you have, I just want to make sure there's creedence to your statement.
On 12/6/2019 at 9:50 AM, Scurvydog said:I am curious of what you find fun to play against?
Slaanesh who wipes you out before you can strike?
DoK with 10 pt battleline with 5++ rerolling save and 4 attacks? Morathi who cannot take more than 3 wounds per turn?
Lords of the lodge fyreslayers striking first and 2 times with hearthguards?
Deepkin with all of the army striking first in turn 3?
I really want to know what is "fun" and why can't OB be fun? Is it just the people you have fought only owning buckets of Mortek Guards making a wall? The army can make many builds, and comparing it to the variety found in many other tomes, they are doing quite well with multiple units and could field both cavalry and monster armies, a Nagash list or Arkhan with his explosive friends. I also own Ironjawz and Nighthaunt and they are far more one dimensional, either having only 3 units to choose from in total or every single thing being a 1 wound ghost with 4+ ethereal save.
While this is true, this is only 5 armies out of 20ish.
Slaanesh and DoK are admittedly not fun to play against, but Fyreslayers could be. Who doesn't like smashing a Magmadroth in the face?
And if you alpha strike Deepkin before turn 3, you can significantly weaken them before they can attack.
In these scenarios, you at least feel some progress, not to mention hope of winning. With OBR, it feels like you're going nowhere. Though technically a difficult to kill unit of Mortek is the same as an easy to kill but reviving unit of Skeletons, I would take Skeletons any day because I would feel progress.
OBR strengths ( being tanky, sniping your heroes, etc.) are beatable in terms of being overpowered but just terrible to fight. While Slaanesh may make you outraged and depressed over how broken their own units are, OBR makes you feel that your own units are useless, and that is far worse.
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14 minutes ago, Tibus367 said:
I should also put some context here that we all started playing at the same time. The Seraphon playing is not some old experienced player squishing novice noobs. Perhaps he is really smart, or perhaps I am real dumb. That is my purpose in the original post to figure out how to be a little smarter in this context.
This may be the case. I would suggest dropping the demon prince, getting more bloodthirsters, and having a say scenario-wise. Knife to the heart will never go well for you, but 3 places of power could be great for you. Also, you need to go to a higher point battle. 1000 or even 1500 battles won't be good. You need to do 2000 point, as Seraphon will crush you always at low points with their ridiculous summoning.
Make sure you use your Blood Tithe frequently.
Kill his wizards quickly. They are very annoying.
Seraphon are very racist against Chaos. They get bonuses. Stupid Order. Nothin' you can do there.
And as much as I hate to admit it, Khorne is much more powerful right now. Once Seraphon get a new book, which I suspect will be early next year, they'll become more powerful. I wish you luck!
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The Honest Wargamer stats do not look good for Mawtribes. 45% win rate isn't great...
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5 hours ago, Kramer said:
It’s also in the mawtribes Facebook group.
Just so ya know theres a couple. One was the BCR group beforehand and renamed itself Mawtribes.
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5 hours ago, Kasper said:
I hope you realize how silly it is to comment on game balance based off 1 game between two players who are doing tons of mistakes and apparently dont really know their own army.
Sir, I was talking to @Sleboda, as he had made this same comment after I lost to Petrifex the first time. Yes, I had played them before this and I was continuing a conversation. Thank you for the criticism, but please don't interfere. And if you must, see the whole conversation beforehand.
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Total commitment
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yall need more GOBBOS
Tyrant 160
Icebrow 120
Sabres 40
Sabres 40
Sabres 40
Fungoid 90
Fungoid 90
60 Grots 270
60 Grots 270
60 Grots 270
60 Grots 270
60 Grots 270
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@Sleboda I MIGHT have to change my opinion of OBR being OP.
1500 point game against em. Played as Ironjawz, who I had just got an army for and was my first game as them. Fought a Petrifex list that was meh, and the player fully admitted they forgot a lot, but... I won.
My list:
Megaboss on Maw-krusha 460
- Heavy 'Un
- Ironsunz CT
- Ironsunz Artefact
Weirdnob Shaman 110
- Great Big Green Hand of Gork
- Great Green Visions
Warchanter 110
-Fixin' Beat
Ardboyz x10 180
- All upgrady things
Brutes x5 140
- Brute Choppas
Goregruntas x6 320
- Gore-hackas
- Ironfist Leader
Ironfist 160
His:
Leige-Kavalos 200
20 Mortek 260
20 Mortek 260
Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harvester 200
Gothizzar Harvester 200
Soulmason 140
He went first and one-shotted my Weirdnob with the Crawler, eliminating my strategy of teleporting my Ardboyz to kill the Crawler. Otherwise, he just moved his guys forward. My turn, I use Mighty Destroyers twice to move my Goregruntas forward and they are able to charge into his unit of 20 Mortek screening the Crawler. My Megaboss moves in and charges the Mortek, though I accidentally engage him with a Harvester. 9 mortal wounds are dealt on a charge to the Mortek. My Mawrusha attacks and reduces the Mortek to 1. Stupid. Model. *sigh*. His Harvester piles in and attacks the Mawkrusha, doing 13 wounds. OW. Gore-Gruntas pile in max length, damage buffed by the Warchanter, killing the Harvester. Mission accomplished, care less about winning. Anyhow, he wins initiative. Gothizzars kill the Maw-Krusha and his Leige kills 2 Gore-Gruntas. The Gore-Gruntas kill one of his Harvesters and the remaining Mortek. My turn, I attack dealing 1 wound to his Soulmason and 2 wounds to his other Harvester. Ardboyz get into combat and team up with the Gore-gruntas to kill the Harvester, though not before it kills 2 more Gore-Gruntas. Soul-Mason kills an Ardboy. I lose initiative again and his other Mortek kill 6 of the Ardboyz. Owwie. Leige kills the other two Gore-Gruntas and the Boyz kill 6 Mortek. The Boyz all run from battleshock. I'm up by point by A LOT at this point, and we call it there. Nothing would have changed.
SO maybe OBR isnt broken. Slightly.
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@Warbossironteef 2 FLoSH 4 SH Beastriders is pretty fun...
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No idea what an OBR competitive list would be like, but here's what I got:
Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
- General
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 3x Soulcleaver Greatblades
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 2x Soulcleaver Greatblades
Units
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)
Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
Posted without artefacts or command traits because I don't know what's good.
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1 hour ago, Forrix said:
I'd go brawlerguts over Giantbreaker for more consistency and a wider range of targets. The issue is that the artifacts that are suppose to boost his damage are inferior to the general AoE buff artifact when it comes to the damage he himself puts out. The reroll hit/wound command trait is good but far to specific to every be worth taking in an all comers list.
I think the best Big Name is Fateseeker for sure. Once you use his command ability on a unit, people will want to kill him fast, especially if you tell them that he can do D3 mortals on exploding 6s. He'll need it to survive.
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BATTLE REPORT
Had a great game against a competitive Khorne list yesterday! It was my first BCR usage, and I must say that I am impressed! The amount of damage my Stonehorns were able to do was ridiculous. The lists:
FloSH 400
- Ethereal Amulet
- Boulderhead CT
-Clatterhorn
-General
HoSH 320
-Svard Brand
-Metalcruncher
SHBR 300
Slaughtermaster 140
-Molten Entrails
Slaughtermaster 140
- Bloodfeast
Mournfang Pack 280
Mournfang Pack 280
Eurlbad
His list:
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster 300
Skarbrand 380
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage 270
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage 270
Slaughterpriest 100
Slaughterpriest 100
10 Bloodreavers 70
10 Bloodreavers 70
5 Flesh Hounds 100
Council of Tyrants 140
5 Wrathmongers 140
Wrath-Axe 60
Battleplan: Shifting Objectives
Round 1: He takes first turn and moves in to collect points, no combat. On my turn, I alpha-strike killing all of his Reavers, Flesh Hounds, and 1 Insensate Bloodthirster thanks to a Buffed HoSH and my 2 mournfang packs. I reduce another 'Thirster to 11 and a Slaughterpriest to one thanks to some lucky shooting. My Stonehorn Beastriders take 9 wounds.
Round 2: He wins initiative, which proves to be very good for him. My Beastriders fall to his Insensate Rage, and my Huskard is deleted from existence by Skarbrand. My FLoSH takes some mortals from Blood Boil, and I lose a few Mournfang. He has far more points than me now, as he has controlled the main objective through all turns. My turn happens, and I use the Pot to heal the Frostlord and Mournfang. I'm able to kill Skarbrand with my FLoSH in one shot (aw yeah) and my Mournfang come close to his Slaughterpriests but fail the charge. My other Mournfang are able to take down his other Insensate Rager, but not without losing 2 of them. I am still behind on points.
Round 3: I win initiative! This proves to be MASSIVE, as it lets me table his army! The FloSH deletes his general, and the Mournfang clean up the Slaughterpriests and Wrathmongers. However, thanks to the stupid Blood Tithe, he brings back another Bloodthirster. And this point I have control of all the objectives, and we're just playing it out as much as possible. I kill the Bloodthirster( but only after the Bloodthirster kills one of the Mournfang packs).
Round 4: Cuz why the heck not, he brings out 5 Bloodletters, who succeed at doing 5 points to a Slaughtermaster. The Slaughtermaster proceeds to get 11 attacks against them with a 2+ because of the meat he pulls from his pot, and kills the unit, ending the game.
I must say that I am impressed with everything in the army. The only complaint that I have is that the Stonehorns damage tables are terrible. With 8 wounds on one, they become essentially useless. This means that Boulderhead really is the best faction because of its command ability.
I'm very happy with them, and there's certainly nothing worthy of complaints on the Mournfang/ Stonehorn side of things. Now I'll have to try the Thundertusk/Yhetee side...
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Gonna be honest: I'm getting into Orruks too, so I may not be the best source. BUT:
As far as I know, Ardboyz are rather necessary if you plan on using mostly Ironjawz.
I can't help a whole lot with Bonesplitterz, as I know nothing about them, but Kunnin' Rukk is apparently pretty good. So do that!
AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
This list...needs a little work. The huskard and Mournfang are only good if you're taking Boulderhead and not useful to you in Underguts. You should take 1-2 more Ironblasters.
Try to fit in a slaughtermaster or a butcher.
I think the ultimate problem with this list is that it's too random. It has unfulfilled synergies (tyrant/Ironblasters) and an abnormal amount of BCR.