Kasper
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Posts posted by Kasper
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2 minutes ago, sandlemad said:
I didn’t say that. I said that assuming that every new tome/codex is stronger and moreover intentionally stronger than the tome before, the most common way that folks talk about power creep, is dumb and provably incorrect. Idoneth is weaker than DoK. Sylvaneth is weaker than FEC.
You’re talking about new battletomes for specific factions, which often are stronger than their previous versions but by no means always.The new orks almost certainly will be stronger than before, but look at tyranids or chaos space marines. They had multiple codices where they got weaker or stayed approximately the same despite folks safely repeating that power creep is a universal and things always get stronger.
Power creep definitely exists but is not consistent or universal.
DoK is an extreme example of an old tome still being good, but that is due to extremely silly written rules.
My point is not that EVERY new book is objectively better than the previous book, but there is a pretty clear trend that new books are stronger than older ones. Just because you find an outliner doesn't mean it isn't true. It makes sense from a business point of view, and it also makes sense from a player perspective.
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24 minutes ago, sandlemad said:
In its most unthinking, cynicism-masquerading-as-insightful "lol GW just makes every army stronger than the last one" form commonly repeated in the community, power creep is provably not real. Idoneth Deepkin were not more powerful than preceding armies. Neither were Gloomspite, Slaanesh or Sylvaneth. There's 40k examples too and have been for decades.
Talk about larger patterns of design, breaks between editions, or shifts in how free GW is with allegiance abilities or summoning or subfactions, then there's a broader (if not guaranteed consistent) trend of power creep with occasional 'resets'.
If you really don't believe in it, then compare the new Ironjawz/Bonesplitterz (once they are out) with their old version. They will 100% be stronger. Slaanesh is also significantly stronger than before their recent tome. To say otherwise is flat out silly.
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14 minutes ago, Sleboda said:
If by "known for" you mean "assumed without actual facts to back up" then sure.
If you don't believe in power creep, I think you should go back and look at some of the first AoS books and compare the rules to freshly released armies.
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5 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
that was for Gordrakk though, so expect the regular version to most likely be 7 attacks like that, which is sort of the average as before with 4x3 dmg and 1xd3 potential damage. The mount trait boosting that with +1 damage will be crazy good though, something else will have to be incredibly good to match that, and se far we already know about +2 move, 4+ ignore spells and the bellow one I already forgot what did.
If mighty destroyers is still a command ability, then having 2 allegiance and also 1 clan command ability seems a bit over the top, but options are good I guess. I cant recall we have seen anyone get so many command abilities tied to their allegiances though.
Warchanters look incredibly good, +1 damage buffs will be crazy, imagine that in a great whaagh too, with Gordrakk and 2 chanters, you would get the +1 to hit AND +1 to wound buffs by turn 2. Even the lowly ardboyz will be 2 attacks 2+/2+/rend-1/2 damage with those buffs!
True about the tail and fists. But imagine the +1 wound and +1 damage on the Big G/ordinary MawKrusha. That's a lot of damage those fists are gonna pump out quite easily.
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1 minute ago, ShaneHobbes said:
In what way did they squish the Mawkrusha?
Tail and fists are 1 profile now. I believe they said 9 attacks, +2/+3/-2/2 damage (down from 3 on the fists). The weapon choices should also be only 1 attack profile.
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4 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:
Brutes are 140! Warchanter went way up though but he seems to actually be able to do more than just give +1 to hit like he used to. Brutefist change is nice, too.
Like many here I absolutely love the Brute models and their rules and this little peek is just glorious.
Warchanter is now +1 damage to each model in the unit!
So according to the twitch preview, we still have the Waaagh bomb (unless they make it once per round), it is just an alligiance ability and no longer Megaboss ability. This couple with Warchanter seems crazy. Granted they have squished weapon profiles for at least the MawKrusha and Megaboss.
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5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
That‘s still no valid argument as to WHY GW adds such a rule that robs the fun of 3 factions? (Nurgle Demons, Nurgle mortale, Nighthaunt)
@umpac that is nonsense, this is also no counter unit but a COUNTER FACTION that No-brainer massacres entire factions. It‘s hilarious how you are even trying to defend the biggest design fault in AoS 2.0 apart from the always strikes first shenanigans.
this is my last word on this since power-Fan arguments are beginning to rise in defense of GW, as usual.
I think you might be overestimating the power. We haven't even seen the full release yet, but you are going bunkers at 1 ability. Bonesplitterz have never been good, yet they get a facelift and people ****** their pants. Wait and see exactly how good they will be. Factions are (assumed) balanced around having these abilities, so what happens when Bonesplitterz fight an army without those to counter? Maybe Bonesplitterz rely on these abilities to even kill enemy units.
Personally I think units having feel-no-paint saves is a big design fail in AoS, especially when you can add additional layers or rerolls. It is just no fun to see your 20 wounds turn into 2 damage.
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Just now, Planar said:
@Kasper agreed and I am having having expectations there especially for big G. I hope he can be viable at least for semi competitive play.
Smashing and Bashing is hard to pull off against an experienced opponent (essentialyl you are counting on opponents mistake) and it also means your unit is already engaged in combat. I was having in mind those 30 heathguard mobs which tend to delete everything that comes close to them before it gets a chance to fight.
In the case of the Hearthguard Berzerkers, even if you attacked first it honestly would matter. It is one of those units you just don't engage at all and rather go for their support heroes. I don't think S&B is only good against bad enemies - You need to plan your own charges and sometimes ensure you overkill a unit/hero.
Big G is already in some tournaments @Malakree has used him to great effect. I don't think he needs *that* many buffs, but he is rather costly for what he does. It looks like they are buffing the warscrolls all around so IJ is more of a grindy force than wet noodles unless you Waagh-bomb the enemy. If the Mighty Waaagh is gone, I could see Big G keeping his command ability, which would be super useful.
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2 hours ago, Planar said:
Lets WAIT and see. At the moment I am most concerned about our non-representation in the activation wars. Even the strongest offensive output is not much use if you get deleted right after the charge and before you get a chance to attack.
I hope they will give us something at least to defend against it.
But smashing and bashing is sort of our way in the activation wars. It overwrites Locus of Diversion. Sure we have no way of dealing with units that immediately pile in and attack (sometimes twice) at the start of combat phase, but otherwise we do have tools that nobody else got.
I'm really hyped on the updated warscroll for Gordrakk and the bossman on MawKrusha. I loved running both boys in my list previously.
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1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:
1) Don‘t play against such min-max abusers.
2) Again GW failed to restrict Gotrek from receiving any buffs.
And then they counter by adding a FREE rule that ignores vital gamemechanics.
Honestly those Gotrek armies aren't much different than people using the old Khorne dragon costing like 70% of your army. Anyways it is just 1 army at the moment that got this ability, there is currently loads of rock-paper-scissor in the game.
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8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
Well, that rule kind of ruins the orruk release for me. (It‘s utterly lore-unfriendly and honestly very unfair against mentioned armies/models and very costly models like morathi which specifically cannot be healed).
Gotrek for example statistically dies against 20 shootas. Which makes neither sense nor fun. It‘s an allround bad rule that leaves a bad taste imo.
This is why you shouldnt put all your eggs into 1 basket. People are already coming up with absurd lists where Gotrek got his normal save, 3++, 6++, 6++, 6++ and loads of heals. This isn't fun to play against either when you have no way of countering it. "Just dont engage him" isn't a viable strategy in every single game, and in your average casual games (which is the vast majority of warhammer play, lets be fair) people don't play like pros at tournaments.
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15 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:
I really wish they hadn’t doubled down on the monster killing thing for Bonesplitterz. There are some big ones about (looking at you AGKoT) but still, I don’t think it’s something worth building an army around.
But loads of armies have monsters. Slaanesh usually uses 1-3 Keepers, Skaven often got Verminlords etc. All in all, Bonesplitterz look great, they offer a lot to combat the current top dogs like damage ignoring "negating abilities" like Gortrek, potentially Morathi and Hearthguard Berzerkers etc.
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3 hours ago, Malakree said:
What I'm hoping for is something like bloodtithe points.
"When you activate a unit to fight gain 1 waaagh! Point. These waaagh! Points can be spent to gain permanent boosts for your army.
10 WAAAGH! Points: all friendly warclans units gain +1 attack with every weapon.
8 waaagh! All friendly warclans units become bravery 10 and no longer take battleshock tests
That would be very cool, stop the explosive 1 turn and it's over and represent how as orruks get stronger the more they fight.
This could be a really cool system. I'm expecting fight twice rather than extra attacks - Seems to be the trend with armies moving forward. Cities of Sigmar got a CA to pile in and attack as well.
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I was hoping for the Waaagh mechanic to be gone. It felt like ****** - Hit like a wet noodle without it and destroy anything with it. Honestly I'm so surprised by how much they have put into this looking at Cities of Sigmar. I was pretty much just expecting minor updates and a quick soup book of Ironjawz + Bonesplitterz, but it really looks like they gave them a proper update. I'm hoping Gordrakk will become a beast.
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I'll be damned. They mentioned that the alligiance abilities are updated for both IJ and BS too, and intentionally teased that warscrolls are updated as well. 😍
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On 9/16/2019 at 7:08 PM, Gothmaug said:
I’ll be the eternal optimist. Perhaps GW spent all their endless spell/terrain design budget on a whole slew of new Orruk models, and are delaying the book release to give us a truly epic Orruk-tober!
Tbh I think it is better to be realistic at this point. The radio silence is a pretty clear indicator imo that nothing new will come, and I would honestly be very surprised if we get a single new model - I am not even sure what this would be, a megaboss on a pig? In which case the megaboss on foot is dead pretty much.
All I'm expecting is a band-aid fix to bring the Orruks up-to-date with the recent battletomes and maybe a rewrite of Gordrakk to have him match some of the other quite powerful characters. With the stuff we got from the GHB19 I think it is also very unlikely we will get any real rule rewrites. They probably just copypasted their ideas for the new tome into the GHB19.
I would rather not expect too much and be happily surprised, than have insane hype and be gutted.
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9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:
I don't know how they will fix Ironjawz, the model line is so limited, so without first strike abilities, we will still lose in a fight against the power hitters currently, namely DoK and Slaneesh. How do you make a pure melee army viable in the current meta? There are no models for fast units, flying units or basically anything else than just slow brawlers, so the rules will have to be really creative if not to just copy paste the current best combat rules and command abilities.
Well at least S&B is sort of a counter to Slaanesh's ability if you can plan your charges and wipe out a weak unit first. Their army is generally made of paper and rely heavily on the LoD, so if you can wipe out a small unit of Daemonettes and activate your LoD' unit, then you should be ok. Their fight twice is still nasty, but it isn't as bad as units that have the rule of being able to fight twice immediately without any real counter to it.
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30 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:
There is a positive to take from this. GWs communication used to be bad all the time, now it has improved to the level where people get cross about a lack of previews, since we've come to expect that they'll try to hype things up. A few years back this would have been business as usual.
I'll admit I wasn't impressed with how they handled the squatting. I'd have rather those kits had stayed, and advanced notice would have been better.
The book though will come when it comes. They likely have their plans worked out far in advance, and a book that's coming this month will have been finished and at the printers since long before they announced it to us. Complaining here can and will accomplish nothing I'm afraid.
Honestly I don't think it is an arguement that "this is much better communication compared to when I was a kid". It's 2019 afterall, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect something as a consumer.
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6 hours ago, broche said:
That is a really lousy comparaison (and cabbage is now 420), and has significant better stats than KoS, nothing scandalous here. If you just cut the summoning Slanneesh would likely loose most matchup agains IJ even withouth bombing.
The scandalous part is the your 360 KoS generate half it's value in summoning point just by dying. And that is cleary unfair.
You are crazy. Slaanesh got CPs coming out their butt, so the KoS will fight twice every single time. KoS can almost kill any monster in the game.
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3 hours ago, Killamike said:
I agree. The radio silence is pretty bad.
Every week I eagerly await the community page articles leading up to the release only to be disappointed.
I agree. I don't expect much at all, but the hype is slowly dying down. I'm starting to realize the release will be nothing but just a band-aid fix to bring certain factions together, nothing new or fancy at all, otherwise there would have been more info. I would much have prefered not to know about the books honestly, than them teasing it and then be completely silent for months.
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1 minute ago, Double Misfire said:
I'd like to imagine Gotrek had an impressive enough model and was notorious enough for anyone who'd been playing the game longer than a week to recognise him and have an idea what he's capable of. Nobody's going to mistake Abaddon the Despoiler for a slightly larger Chaos Terminator.
If you aren't a super big fan of the lore, why would you know who this semi naked Dwarf is? Even worse if your opponent is playing Fyreslayers, then they pretty much all look the same if you aren't super familiar with the faction. I'm just saying that typically the size of a model indicates the power, not at all the case here.
I don't play 40k at all and don't care about the game, so I would have no idea who Abaddon is.
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1 minute ago, Dead Scribe said:
I'd say that after a month or so of seeing him that it won't be that big a deal for those of us that play tournament level games. For casuals, its no different than having to face three keepers or FEC or tournament skaven so I wouldn't call that broken either, at least no more broken than AOS already is.
This is true, however it is one single tiny half-naked Dwarf, where as 3 Keepers or Terrorgheists are of significant size that are appropriate to their power. You don't need to be very experienced to realize that 3 huge giants are gonna crush your puny and tiny chaff models.
I personally find it a bit problematic that they release cases like this where a model is extremely broken at lower skill-levels, but easily dealt with at high skill-levels. Maybe you can't get around it, I don't know.
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3 hours ago, Planar said:
It would be fun to pit snake Morathi against him . Unless I am wrong these are the 2 models in the game that limit damage received per round . Gortek will need 4 rounds to kill her. Will she be able to kill him before that (including use of spells)? Theoretically she can do 2 wounds per round on him (one in hero phase and one in meelee) so it can go both ways
They have two completely different rules. Morathi can only suffer 3 wounds pr. turn, but Gotrek can only suffer 1 wound pr. attack. Gortek can die in 1 round of combat, where as Morathi can not.
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Gotrek is likely gonna be one of those models that are gonna be absolutely brutal in beginner/casual games, but fall off once you get to tournaments where players know exactly how to adapt/fight him.
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AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
I think it is to simplify things. The Maw Krusha had a bunch of attack profiles, so it makes sense to squish some of them. This applies to Ardboyz too - It was kinda annoying having to figure out how many had X, Y and Z equipment (if you mixed them).