Liquidsteel
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Posts posted by Liquidsteel
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1 hour ago, PJetski said:
You don't remove slain models instantly.
Sure, but the Core Rules FAQ allows a scenario where you do remove models then keep on allocating wounds.
Does it contradict itself? Yes.
Does it set a precedent/intent that we can and should apply to Cycle of The Storm? Yes.
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Not sure if it was missed or ignored when I posted earlier, but the 3.0 Core Rules FAQ did get an update on what to do with excess wounds when you encounter models being removed but not slain, as people were pointing out that the new Horrors of Tzeentch warscroll would allow you to ignore infinite wounds also, similar to Cycle of the Storm.
I think it shows quite clearly what the intent is, and effectively infers that you can remove models then keep on allocating wounds to a unit.
"Q: If a model is removed from play while it has wounds allocated to it, but it is not slain, does this mean I can no longer allocate wounds to that model and therefore that unit?
A: No. The wounds allocated to that model have no further effect and you must continue allocating wounds that remain to be allocated to its unit as normal."
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3 minutes ago, Rayst said:
sorry for changing a little the topic.
but what happens if someone makes 20 wounds to a hero model (7 wounds).
the hero stays with 1 wound or dies cuz the over kill?
Thanks
He still dies, he just gets to ignore the first wound that "kills" him.
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The FAQ to the FAQ provided somewhat of a response to this, which seems to probably have been aimed at the change to Horrors of Tzeentch warscroll, but you can likely infer how it should and will be ruled in this case also. I'm aware you can get around it RAW, but let's be honest, nobody will let you actually play it that way.
"Q: If a model is removed from play while it has wounds allocated to it, but it is not slain, does this mean I can no longer allocate wounds to that model and therefore that unit?
A: No. The wounds allocated to that model have no further effect and you must continue allocating wounds that remain to be allocated to its unit as normal."
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Glorious!
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I reckon we get a new book with a new hero and that's it, maybe a new Varghulf.
The start collecting FEC is still a staple box for both FEC and also Soulblight, I don't see them changing that anytime soon, despite the aged sculpts.
We still have this rumour engine, which I'm going to imagine is still FEC, though could quite easily be a second Warband.
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16 hours ago, djrodriguez123 said:
Really trying to make a 40 BK army work. Having troubles with what heroes to take with the 440Pts left over. The options are a VLOZD, vengorian lord and radukar the wolf/V lord, or Bella and Wright king on steed. Anyone got some thoughts or played a list with similar amount of BKs??
…….FAQ, yes I own 40, can show proof lol
Does it have to be 40? Would you consider 35? or 30?
Drop another unit from the below and you can add Belladamma.
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Radukar the Beast (315)**
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 2
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49 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I'd probably go with a Vengorian Lord and Vampire Lord.
The Vengorian to is very sturdy monster hero that can give you Rousing Commander reliably without dying too quickly and enhances the defense of your Blood Knights.
The Vampire Lord is an easy source of +1 attacks. He can just run behind the Blood Knights all game long and buff their offense.
Vampire Lord can only buff Summonable units, unfortunately. So can't give +1 attack to Blood Knights. Radukar the Wolf can, however, but requires a charge.
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Plus you can take one as Artillery if you're going for 1 drop.
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17 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
That's actually kinda tricky to calculate. I'll have to get back to you on that.
EDIT: I want to explain why this scenario is hard to calculate.
Previously, I calculated the chance to cast through an unbind this way:
First, I start by calculating the chance to fail. The chance to succeed is just 1-(chance to fail). Total failure chance is (chance to fail to cast)+(chance to be unbound on a successful cast).
Failure chance is pretty straight foreward. But chance to be unbound is not, because it depends on your actual roll. If you succeed a CV 7 spell with a roll of 7, that's easier to unbind than succeeding with a roll of 11. So I calculated the chance for each individual casting roll result that beats casting value, and then the opponent's chance to roll high enough to unbind. Low values are common, but easy to unbind, while high values are rare but hard to unbind, so they all end up being similarly significant.
Now, if I want to figure out how the odds change if you get to reroll one casting die, they no longer just depend on the total casting rolls, but also the individual component rolls of each result. And they are not always the same: Let's say you need to meet CV 7, but only rolled a result of 6. How much does rerolling one die help you?
If you rolled a 6 by rolling a 5 and a 1, you can reroll the 1 and will make CV7 on any result except 1, so in 83% of cases. However, if you rolled 3 and 3, you need to roll higher than 4 to make CV7, so it's now just 50%.
And when we get to the unbinding stage, there are now also a lot more cases to take into account. Like, how likely is it that your opponent will need to beat a result of 7? Normally, there are 6 combinations of numbers on two dice that add up to 7 exactly: 1-6, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2 and 6-1. But now, you can also get to 7 in 16% of cases if you reroll one die of the combination 1-1, and so on. Plus, you can ask the question: In what cases is it worth rerolling one of your dice even if you have made your target CV, in order to make unbinding harder, and how does that affect the odds? Like, imagine you roll 1-6 for a CV 7 spell. You should definitely reroll that 1 because it can only make your spell harder to unbind.
Overall, while the odds are possible to calculate, I don't quite know how to get it done efficiently. I don't even really have an intuitive grasp on how good rerolling one die is. For example, I could not tell you if it's better or worse than rerolling failed casts.
I'm not sure if this answers your question at all, but Goonhammer do these graphs for 40k (where re-rolling 1 dice is an option for some armies). It doesn't show the working out, but does provide the probabilities.
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36 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
The newest FAQ from earlier this month has ruled that bodyguard abilities are to be treated like wards, so that's no longer the case.
That's not strictly correct, the first FAQ did address this, however the FAQ to the FAQ removed it and replaced it with different responses.
Currently, all abilities that attempt to Negate a Wound are Wards.
Additionally, wounds that are created as a result of negating a wound (Nagash, Archaon, Hearthguard) cannot be negated, nor may wounds suffered following a dice roll where a part of the roll is attempting to negate (Stormcast Praetors, it's a Bodyguard and Ward combined).
Bodyguard abilities such as Belladamma, Necro and other armies e.g. Lumineth Bladelords do not negate, they re-allocate, and so you are free to take a Ward roll, but only once (so you can't Ward - Bodyguard - Ward).
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@Neil Arthur Hotep thanks for that, though when you say wards can't stack, bodyguard saves aren't wards, so necro, gorslav, Bella all still get a ward plus a bodyguard.
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Can you also calculate the average wounds/mortal wounds required to kill each one please?
My main gripe with the Vampire Lord is he is 5 wounds without a bodyguard save, which means most armies with decent shooting can just take him off the board from the get go without breaking stride.
The Necromancer (and Gorslav) at least make the opponent consider whether shooting them is going to be worth it, but it would be good to see exactly how much needs to be dedicated to each one, on average, to take them down.
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Edit due to thread being revived: core rules FAQ voids my response below, as the clause surrounding benefitting once per phase has been removed.
Original: I think it comes down to what the word "benefit" means in the context of Age of Sigmar.
As has been pointed out to me previously on this, apparently "benefit" was the old way of saying "receive" a command ability, though now for AoS 3 we have receive and issue making things a bit clearer.
In this scenario, what does "benefit from" mean?
Does it mean receive, and thus it can be stacked, or does it actually mean benefit as per the definition of the word, and thus you can only ever have +1 attack from it, regardless of how many times you actually stack the ability?
I play Soulblight, and I'm the type of player to try and play every rule to my advantage, however I find this one to be a bit of a stretch purely RAW, because to me "benefit" means benefit, and you can't benefit more than once, meaning you can't ever have more than +1 attack from this ability. Even my WAAC brain would feel slightly dishonest using this one, unless cleared with a TO ahead of time.
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Blood Knights plus heroes to flavour, Nagash, Vhordrai etc
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9 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:
Hi, death people, here's the thing: a friend of mine (long time death player) almost lost hope of playing his favorite army and started buying SoB. Now, me and others have decided to challenge him with lists that he believes are underperforming, and I, who have never touched a death model, will play Soulblight.
Where can i start creating a tournament list? I played against Vyrkos and legion of the night, but Vyrkos seems better now.
ps: if anything should interest the experiment I will post the battle reports. 😁If you read through the past pages, you will find details of several lists that are doing okay.
The book is very versatile and lists can reflect personal play style.
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Yeah I can't leave Bella at home these days, she's been in almost every list I've tried recently.
Vhordrai is definitely whiffy sometimes and I wish quickblood was easier to cast but alas it is what is, and thematically I have to take him.
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Yeah Nighthaunt were my first army but I was immediately pushed in to Legion of Grief, then gave up and went FEC and never looked back til Gravelords came out.
I've held on to the army though, collecting dust for the past 18 months, in the hope that an eventual new book gives me the impetus to play them properly.
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Very nice, which list will you be taking?
I'm giving the below a run out tonight against Sons of Behemat.
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Prince Vhordrai (455)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
10 x Dire Wolves (135)*
Units
3 x Fell Bats (75)**
Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
Drops: 2
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21 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
Any guesses when Soulblight get its 3.0 book? Based on the new Warclans and SCE book the Soulblight one was definitely not made with 3.0 in mind.
I mean they are just guesses, but it probably won't? It came out on the fringe, some rules were definitely written with AoS 3.0 in mind (Riders of Ruin, removing the command ability on VLoZD etc).
I think we will get a White Dwarf issue with new Battalions, Tactics and Strategies and that might be it.
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59 minutes ago, Microwavedhamster said:
Lets say he gets first round. 9W with 3+sv, 50% of failing a total slain unit spell + the chance of getting it unbind, 3 maybe 60 %chance of casting Arcane bolt prob 2 MW tops each one, (they have 8W) and pretty mediocre melee, he wasnt intended to fight tbh. very situational character that cost 900 points and can be easily be murdered by 200 pt characters.
VS (regardind the 4 spirit)
They get first turn aetherquartz each one plus Sevireth 4 shots 2+ 2+ 3rend d3 damage each 18/17 shots average = 36 wounds average... good luck saving that even with a 4+ ward save.
They can't Aetherquartz each one, in Syar two can receive it otherwise it's 1, but they're probably Helon with this build.
But anyway they are 2s and 3s so no pluses to hit required, and only Sevireth can be 2s and 2s with Finest Hour and maybe another with Inspired if they take the triumph.
You can give Nagash Finest Hour turn 1 and also All out Defence so +2 to save.
The "average" damage of 4x Wind Spirit and 1x Sevireth (under Finest Hour) is 9.72 damage against Finest Hour and All Out Defence Nagash (with 6+ ward).
Sentinels are only battle line if they take another unit of wardens. Being Helon they can also consider Windchargers.
Furthermore 4 x spirit build cannot be 1 drop, and Nagash can be 1 drop, so you can dictate first turn. Only way they get 1 drop is Sevireth and 2 x Spirit, which I have played against.
You can do Nagash, Necromancer and chaff in Legion of Night and it's actually a decent game, they can struggle to remove hordes unless they charge in, which the zombie 6" pile in can then work around, somewhat. Not being in combat gives you opportunities to Rally.
Of course, it's an uphill battle, but it's not totally unwinnable, in my opinion.
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Nagash can dust them, and is very difficult to kill. Especially if you also have lifeswarm to keep him topped up.
4 wind spirits will not have good casting, once you move forward you can deny things like power of hysh, speed of hysh and lambent light.
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4 minutes ago, Warmill said:
Really good performance, I've only been running Avengorii (Lauka Bae for lyfe!) so not overly familiar with blood knights, but my instinct was they would struggle against big tough heavy hitters, so happy to be proven wrong!
I've been impressed with them in general, though have only got 2 units painted as I initially opted to run a horde style lists with lots of grave guard and zombies, only just about clearing my backlog (one more box of wolves to go and I'm there).
Rend -1 isn't great but damage 2 is nice, or damage 3 if you can rousing commander them in Kastelai. By spamming them you can force multiple combats so neuter the save stacking game.
I'll probably get up to 4 units total myself then see where we end up in January points, if it comes.
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There was a strong performance from a Soulblight list this weekend at the Facehammer GT at Element Games, played by Tom Mawdsley (former Team England ETC player/captain).
Went 4-0-1 in the end, losing only in game 5 to the eventual winner and from what I heard, it came down to or was partly effected by Vhordrai fluffing his lines somewhat in an important combat phase.
Nevertheless it holds up what we already knew about Blood Knights, and I am pleased to see Grave Sand Shard make an appearance as I've been touting it as a strong choice in this meta, over the stock pick of Fragment of the Keep, especially when you factor in the re-rolling 1s on Deathless that banners offer. Not to say Fragment is bad, both are excellent, but nice to see it feature so well finally.
Even better is the cameo from Kritza, as well as seeing him forgo any low drops in favour of Vanguard/Hunters.
Worth pointing out his match ups, he played in to Archaon twice, Sons of Behemat twice, and a third list that I cannot see. So the list did not face any strong shooting it seems, though with so many blood knights it may not have been a problem anyway. I would like to have seen how that matchup would have gone against a strong opponent rounds 3/4/5.
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vengorian Lord (280)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Kritza, the Rat Prince (95)**
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
Units
3 x Fell Bats (75)*
3 x Fell Bats (75)*
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Vanguard
***Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 1955 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
Drops: 8-
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Cycle of the Storm is incredibly strong because of 14.2
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Sure, as I said it's addressing a different but similar scenario, where the game cannot proceed due to a breakdown of the rules.
Ultimately, in this case the rules also get stuck and you can't proceed with the game if you try to follow them literally as you are suggesting.