[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

12 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

@Asimov then if you're into the shooting and Magic with Daemons and Horrors, I'd say check out the Changehost Battalion coupled with the Eternal Conflagration Coven. This is mostly the most competitive Daemons build at the present, as it's got a lot of Magic, Shooting and if you buff your units correctly, can ht pretty hard in Melee as well. Especially if you're using the Chamon Realm. 

There's a lot fo lists floating around for the Changehost and Eternal Conflag combo, and  a few that are floating around this Forum a few posts back, but in the spirit of laziness, here is a list that I have written for you as a base* of what it may look like, depending on what you have in your collection:

 

*This is just a rough guide though, but leaves you 50 points to play with for the extra CP (recommend taking) or extra endless spell.

Thanks a lot! This will do perfectly

Do you think it is worth to take a chaos spawn with the extra 50? or the extra CP for 50 is still a thing?

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

6 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

Hey mate, are you mostly running Daemons or Mortals/Arcanites? Are you after more magic/shooting/combat that kind of thing?

Probably more daemon with some shooting and magic of course. Something around horrors. I have all the entries and numerous troops so I can do whatever

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Hello everyone!

It has been more than a year that I played my tzeentch. Did not even try the new BT...

Could you please give me a list or two that works well? And the big scheme of play that goes with it?

Want to try to avoid the full flamer (I have the models but not mounted yet)

Thank you in advance!

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 minute ago, Dreadmund said:

Ahh I see the confusion. No, it's the gaunt summoner who loses a spellcast that turn.

Aah! thanks for the correction  

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 minute ago, Dreadmund said:

What makes you think that? They are summoned at the start of the hero phase. Spellcasting takes place afterwards, so they can cast a spell.

I take it from the gaunt summoner on disc warscroll: the unit summoned  casts one spell less this phase (not direct quote from english, but you get the idea) 

So it prevents to cast anything the turn they arrive. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Honestly think the spell will be scrapped, but the new locus and pink splitting are great trade off, and that combine with gaunt summoners that come pre packed with free units of Pink's makes the Pink's quite strong.

 

A gaunt near the line summons a unit of Pink's that can be placed within 9" and then cast from there is a very powerful first move, and sort of turn the gaunt summoner into a peuedo tricaster for 260. 

But the summoned Pinks have to wait one turn to cast. The big bonus I found when testing it was to be able to move in the subsequent phase, as they are summoned during the hero phase.

Nevertheless it is strong. I am still not sure if it is such an advantage for competitive list, as it basically is 100 points mark up you have to take and that unit of Pink does not count as battleline. but summoning mechanic during the hero phase mitght be enough to compensate. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

12 minutes ago, Poryague said:

"Every time a Pink Horror is slain, you add two Blue Horrors to the unit. Every time a Blue Horror is slain, you get a base of Brimstone Horrors."

this sounds like pink, blues and brimstone will all be in the same unit rather then different units. Intresting mixed unit. If true.

I expect it to be like in 40K. Same unit, and thus you can allocate further wounds to your blues/brimstones in order to make your pinks (and their ability to cast a spell) last much longer. 
But if it plays like this, it would tend to extend the length of the turn, as you kill each horror one by one, summoning each time. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

2 hours ago, Curzex said:

Recently i buy 2 Warcry box, so have 12 furyes 12 raptoryx. My idea is use both units as allies in my tzeench armie.

Well we have screamers (that are underpower imo) in same rol and points range.

Furies vs screamers:

9 wounds at 5+ plus 16 mov vs 12 wounds no save 12 mov. Brav 10 both.

-1 hit ability vs Retreat in fight.

100 points both.

Ofensive power: 

Screamers 3 att 4+ / 3+ no rend (d3 dmg vs Monsters) furies 2 att at 4 + /3+ -1 rend.

If we are talking about the objetive hunt/protect role. Furies are winner for me. You can just stay arround the objetive scoring and then  retreat and stay in objetive again.

Screamers -1 hit ability is situational and they want to stay in flanks or in enemy objetives so rarely they got -1.

For tipical unit on cover protecting a objetive (5+ save plus cover 4+)

The numbers:

Screamer do 1,5 wounds after Saves

Furies do near 3  wounds after Saves

Raptoryx are better hittiers but cant fly.  Less mobility and 6 bravery.

So for my Furies>Raptoryx>screamers

Sorry for my english.

 

 

I'd be interested to have your feedback on those. 
Usually I never start with Screamers, I only summon them when needed. The only time I played them it was for a casual game against Seraphon with lots of dinos (and it worked pretty well)

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Blisterfeet said:

Thanks @Asimov and all the other replies have been really helpful. I totally understand the consensus of change host being incredible and the lean towards daemon/magic lists. 

I think I will straddle somewhere in between and as you say RoC will most likely sway me towards my favourite models. 

Changehost is not the alpha and omega. I had great success with a pure tzaangor list (30 tzaangors, 2*10 kairics, tzaangor shaman, 2*9 enlightened, greatbray shaman as allied for the +3"move) and great fun.

The mix is also good: LoC, Gaunt, +1/2 heroes, 20 tzaangors, 10pinks, 10kairics, 9enlightened, +endless spells

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

33 minutes ago, Blisterfeet said:

@Asimov That sounds interesting I redrew up my list last night (couple of times) still on the idea of a mortal/semi comp list after getting the book and was thinking of this.

Question though - are the battalions worth it (other than changehost) or better to spend the points on something else?

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Ogroid Thaumaturge (170)
- Artefact: Wicked Shard 
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Fatemaster (120)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy 
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (140)
- Staff of Change
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
- 20x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 2x Pair of Savage Blade
- 6x Savage Greatblade
- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
- 20x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)

Battalions
Arcanite Cabal (180)
Witchfyre Coven (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

Then as I get points up summon horrors and daemons, like channeling the chaos god's from being great acolytes!

 

I would change several things, but at the end it is up to you.  I tend to play more competitivly.

I play the Tzaangor shaman supporting the enlightened (by 9, always), casting fold reality.
From time to time the ogroid because of his spell that can be used to take the control of an objective easily if it is defended by a small unit.

Magister and herald, I havent played them for a while, not effective enough and we have better casters. The fatemaster i havent tried it yet, but I have the model to test it

As for heroes, I used to play 4-5 heroes, but now more like 3-4. LoC is a must have for me, along with the Gaunt summoner (best anti horde we have). Blue scrib is really good in case of an heavy magic list.

If i play mortals, I play Tzaangors by 20 (you need only one model with shield according to the last warscroll version) to insure I keep the +1 attack even if I hit second. 1 unit of pinks, because it is awesome, 1 unit of 10 kairics, they are really chaff and wont be able to keep an  objective if the adversary is sending anything against them. They stay in the back, shoot a bit and hope for a wound or to. 

If you play 1 or 2 units of pinks, you want to kill them youself (to farm those blues) to bring them back with the destiny dice of 1 you may have. You kill them either with Arcane Sacrifice, and/or with endless spells (pendulum is the best, you can hit 2 units of pinks at once, and it won't come back at you)

Afterward, we are one of the best allegiance to exploit at its best the endless spells. I played changehost the other day (extreme case of heavy magical list) and played 8 endless spell, including 4 predatory. 

Speaking of batallions, I used to play none (after I tried severals), now I think changehost is one of the best list we have, but it is not easy to play as there is no tanky units or close combat units. I am not sure we are that dependant of the batallions, because of the destiny dice (one of the best allegiance rule in the game) we can run far when we want, insure charges, and reduce risk on moral. New  rerolls on 1s are nice though and peaking to start first ou second is important (second if magic heavy list!)

Hope this can help

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

10 hours ago, Blisterfeet said:

@Sumanye Thanks for this post it is really helpful. I love the enlightened models so running 6 seems good. Ogroid is another swap I'll consider.

I'll be honest alot of the spell placement was a bit random but now I have the book I'll reconsider my lore placements. 

I'll go back to the drawing board and rejig the numbers around. 

@firtahl thanks as well. 

I play Enllightened by 9 (because Tzeentch...) because it is more  resilient and almost insure  you that you get to cast Fold Reality on them. This is usually game breaker. In addition, 9 of them can shew pretty much everything, and with the 2" to attack of the lance, you get to attack with most of them each time. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

9 hours ago, Sumanye said:

Question about the Gaunt Summoner's Book of Profane Secrets.  With the new terrain rules, it is now possible to choose a Baleful Realmgate as terrain, but the Gaunt Summoner obviously was not pointed for summoning 10 free pink horrors.  What prevents you from using this ability, or what am I missing here?

From my understanding you are totally free to pick the realmgate and the Gaunt's ability from his warscroll. The only FAQ about it specifies that you can summon only once a game 10 Pinks/Bloodletters/Plaguebearers/Daemonettes

So go for it  (I really need to paint mine...)

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

13 hours ago, MattyP said:

add a hero or a unit of blues/brims?

Yes, you need 8 Horror heroes or daemon units, you are one short to fill the batallion. 
If you want to go chip go for brims. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

Is it hard to use magnets? What do you have to do? Or do you have any good guides?

I found good advices there : https://darrenbolton40.wordpress.com/2017/09/12/tzaangor-enlightened-skyfires/ 
Basicly you need a hand drill, neodymium magnets and super glue. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

19 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

I am planning to buy a Tzaangor shaman, tzaangores and a set off enlightened. Would you recomend enlightend on foot or on discks? I will buy more off them later, might get skyfires. 

If you ar enot sure, use magnets. I have 9 Tzaangors on disc, I can play them as enlightened on foot/disc or skyfires. 
Magnets for life

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

5 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Has anyone tried using the vortex beast or is it too expensive points wise?

I tried it and I liked it. It might not have the damage output of the skyfires (i did not do the math) but it is really tanky and scary for your opponent.

People do not expect this kind of monster in our army, it gives you the adavantage of the surpirse.

I would not play it in tournament though, because it does not have much synergies with the rest of the army

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

On the warscroll builder the 3 versions are available, but both version not on disc cost 180... Looks like they got (at least this one) the version without fammiliars wrong. 

All the other units and endless spells are up to date with GHB 2019 from what I could tell

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

6 minutes ago, RoloMcFury said:

2 ways to pull off the Purple-Sun-on-your-opponent's-doorstep-turn-1 trick:

1. Changehost swap a Pink Horror squad to get a bit of extra movement. Then, summon Lauchon's boat (with said Pink Squad already in the right spot to hop right in). Move your Lauchon 12 inches, get out (3 more inches). Cast that bad boy! You'll lose the Pink Squad, but you can string em out 3 inches from your opponent's lines to block like 21" of their army from moving during their turn (hero phase casualties aside). The Purple Sun will be able to go 4.5" deep into their army before having to back out (unless they're foolish enough to leave a spot for it to land). 

2. Deploy Changeling right near the bulk of your opponent's force. Changehost swap 10 Pink Horrors, cast the spell, and string out to block their movement, same as above. This will probably not be possible on missions where your deployment zones are much smaller (roughly 1/3 of the missions). As such, I think Lauchon's is superior (and 120 points cheaper than Changeling).

Remember taht to swap you need both units to be at 27"of your LoC. It can ba a limitation to place your changeling right

Otherwise I really like the ideau of Lauchon and will give it a try 

 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

23 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

Ok

Not only the units of bataillon ?

Indeed, only the units in the bataillon that are present at the start of the game can use the swap.

Summoned units after the start of the game won't be part of the bataillon. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

6 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

I have a question about the changehost ..
Can we switch 1 unit that has been invoked?

No, because the swap happens at the beginning of the hero phase and the summon at the end of the mvt phase

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Paniere said:

are we sure that the Gaunt summoner WITH FAMILIARS is now 160? I'm afraid he stays at 180

 

I am even more afraid the version with familiars is nor longer present in the GHB and thus no longer available. For now I have not seen it in the Everchosen and Tzeentch sections... 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, Sigwarus said:

I will play with list changehost this weekend: 

LoC, changeling, gaunt summoner, blue scribes.

2x10 pink horrors, 10 blue horrors, 2x10 brimstone, 3 flamers, 10 acolytes

Pendulum, geminidis, Purple sun

Changehost

3 drops and a nasty combo. Opinions?

 

I would maybe try to squeeze the cogs. It is one additional spell, but also, if you are summoning a lot, it can gives you 2"  to charge, letting you charge at 7+

Not a fan of the acolytes here, I prefer blues for the cost and they will fit in your batallion, reducing the drops by one. 

[The great big Generals Handbook 2019 Discussion Topic]

13 hours ago, Matador said:

Skip the rest and go with the last Mate!  my Chariot list "Billy Blake and the Blue Boys Batallion"   

Picked up an extra 140 free points to play with, and it was magic before. The one bit of advice is don't get suckered into using the points to pick up the Warpflame host... its a mug's move.  The host's positioning needs conflict with the strength of the list.  

I remember your list and it looks really strong, but dude, I have 3 charriots and I am not willing to buy the rest to get the dozen needed for the list... Too many projects on going at the same time.

Anyways keep us posted on your results, maybe I will change my mind ^^ 
Also, curious to see a picture of your army, might be nice to just have so many charriots

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

2 hours ago, Hannibal said:

What is that really deadly trick?

You can set your changeling in your enemy's territory at the beginning of the game. Then you cast a nasty endless spell in the middle of his troops packed together for a maximum damage. As a bonus, it is blocking the troops move if you can place it in front of them. 
The sun is big and does not go far, but with this trick you don't have to bother to see it come back to you (at least soon)

It works with the pendulum or any spell that does damage.

To evaluate the efficiency of this move we need to consider how many points worth of units we can kill regarding the cost of the combo. It is hard to get your money back, but as it also ****** up with your opponents strategy it sets you ahead in the mind game.... Very Tzeentchian strategy ^^ 

 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

47 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said:

In one of the videos I've seen where they talk about point changes they say the points for Skyfires has changed to 200 for 3. But it's always been that cost?  

Since the release of BoC battletome. That is why there is an asterisc for tzeentch as it is an update since last ghb