Luzgurbel

@sloane_paints_stuff I follow you at Instagram and your work is really really crazy! I DO love it!

I play Bloodtoofs because I still don't have enough Ardboys to play another thing (I dislike the Grunta's spam). Specifically, talking about wizards I play with a Weirdnob and intend to play with a Fungoid also. I haven't discovered and didn't invent anything new, just playing what it seems it works. I play with 20 Ardboys, 15 brutes and 3 gruntas (10-10 Ardboys - 10 Brutes -5 Brutes - 3 Gruntas). I need moar Ardboys, and I want to buy 2 boxes of them (30 Ardboys moar). And, in my opinion, playing Ardfist I need still more Ardboys, maybe close to 70-80. A future idea that I have with them is to play Megaboss (or 2), a couple of wizards (either fungoids or weirdnob, I don't care the focus of MD because I will play 4-5 characters of IJ) and a couple of Warchanters, and the rest, an Ardfist battalion with all the Ardboys I can include.

Yeah, I don't know why but I red Huskard...

I think that if we go Bloodtoof we need yes or yes the cog (and a wizard, at least). And more bodies. From my point of view, we have now 3 kind of lists that can do well at tournaments: -Bloodtoofs, specially with cog. That's what I'm playing, but with less Gruntas and more Ardboys and some Brutes. -Ardfist and crazy spam of Ardboys. -Bloodtoofs with Grunta's spam.

You miss 1 battleline. Frost sabres are battleline only if an Icebrow Hunter is the general.

I agree, with GH the older battletomes can still face almost any rivals. Imho GW should focus on those allegiances big enough to get a battletome but that still haven't, such Slaanesh, Free peoples and so.

Do people really believe GW will remake the older battletomes? I don't think so. IJ, Fyreslayers, Seraphon and more have their rules and objects in the General's Handbook every year. I don't believe they will remake those battletomes instead of creating news for those armies which don't have one (Slaves, Free peoples, Slaanesh...) or invent a new army.

Thanks for the advices. I chose my characters in order to support my troops properly: the Endrinmaster will be the general with a trait and an item to increase his attacks, so he can dish out some nice damage in close combat; the Navigator to have, at least, a chance to dispell (and I have the intention to give him the Aethersight Loupe); and finally, the Khemist, who I can consider needs no explication at all. Is it bad to play a large unit of Thunderers in order to grant them the augmentation? They can score nice hits, even more with the Escort Wing though their to wound roll is horrible, but at least they have rend. I know that grudges work well with large units and/or capital monsters/characters (Nagash, Morathi, large unit of Eels). You can have a maximum of 3, is it right? The problem is that the other cities don't call my attention with their abilities; we NEED to filter our horribles to hit/to wound rolls.

I'm going to start collecting this army, and I have decided to go with this list, a starting point to collect and paint: -Port: Barak Thryng. -Endrinmaster. -Aether Khemist. -Aetheric Navigator. -3x Arknaut Company with 3x Light Skyhook. -Battalion: Escort Wing. -3x Gunhauler with 3x Cannon. -Frigate with Last Sword and Cannon. -10 Thunderers. -5 Thunderers. -3 Skywardens. This is my idea. Taking all what I got from the Start Collecting and adding units beyond that. I have another (future) idea with Zilfin and the Sky Squadron, deploying a Frigate, 10 Company/Thunderers (and 5 Thunderers more) and 6 Endrinriggers in the back of my rival. However, I really like the rules of both Thryng and the Escort Wing, because I see we have an army that hits really bad (mostly 4+), and those rerollings and +1 to hit is really nice.

They could just re-sell the old Battleforce in order to buy KO or IJ

Some of the Old World characters returned to the battlefields: Nagash and all his mortarchs, Alarielle, Morathi, Archaon... Why no Skarsnik or Grimgor (though Grimgor would fit better in Ironjawz)?

That is really cool! Thanks for the clarification.

Well, yes, if you want Ironguts and Leadbelchers as Battleline. But if you go Gutbusters allegiance, you can't have trait or items (beyond the realm you choose, if any). However, if you GA:D, you can, at least, have a trait an more items, at the cost of only playing Ogors as battleline (or, if you need points, take some cheap battleline like Orruks). On the other hand, I admit that having Ironguts as battleline is quite sexy, having a unit of 12 Ogors as wound bag and 2 units of Ironguts as smasha.

If? You MUST go GA:D, because Gutbusters don't have their own allegiance. Perhaps they are the biggest faction without own allegiance.

So, we are not good at magic, let's forget about Shaman or Fungoid? We are not good at fast movement, let's forget about Bloodtoof+Cog? I know Ardfist could be the top tier of our army list, because you can play with almost 200 Ardboys, which is something overwhelming for many armies (or all, I don't have measured the damage output that other armies can handle). But, as broche says, many (or most) don't have or don't want to have those Gruntas / Ardboys to play with. Brutes, imo, have something good over Ardboys: they are 5, and it´s quite easy they can attack all, while Ardboys, being 10 with that big base and 1" range could make you miss some attacks. Furthermore, if we go forgo the magic, how can we, at least, try to avoid a signature spell? For example, a -1 to hit spell which causes us more troubles than mortal wounds (imo). Yes, with 1 mage who can just dispell 1 spell (and with no buffs for it) we can't face magic armies like Tzeentch or Death ones, but at least have the chance to dispell. One thing I've learned through the years is not to ignore a phase just because your army is not good at it, specially when we have 2 phases we don't play: shooting and magic (ok, magic is not a pashe itself, but you know what I mean). We play without shooting, do we have to play without magic too?

60 attacks at 3+/3+/-1/1 against 5+ classic armour. They do 22/23 wounds. The Brutes, do 24 2+/3+/-1/1 - 14 2+/3+/-1/d3 and (lets get a Boss Choppa) 7 attacks 2+/3+/-1/2, inflicting 33 wounds (I have considered the d3 damage as d2, so they cause 7d3 wounds, 14 wounds). All this maths with +4 attacks and +1 to hit from warchanter. That's more or less 10 more wounds, with fewer models (so you can pile in and attack with all). It's true you have more wounds in the unit (5 more) and the command group and all that, but raw power, the Brutes clearly win.

I can see that lists are more or less the same, even people still playing Bloodtoof. I also like Ardfist but I don't have so many Ardboys. The main struggle I can see is the choice of items. I prefer those who can avoid mortal wounds on the MK and then in support characters I prefer those that can boost the Bravery or even avoid Battleshocks.

So, what do you recommend? Drop Bloodtoof (ugh, my army is painted as Bloodtoof haha) for what? I really like the extra 2Cps and 2 items for the cost (ant the Bravery, btw). I can go for a double Ironfist (I don't have enough models to make a Ardfist), for instance. Yep, maybe a bit of bad luck took part on that game, but then I got overwhelmed about the performance of the Enlightened. They also give a 9" aura that force one more model to flee (for that reason I lost 3 Brutes instead of 2. And I had my heroes too far away to give the auto Battleshock pass). I don't want a top tier army. I love Ironjawz, and I will go on playing them, defeat after defeat if it's necessary. However, from my newbie point of view, we have an amazing lack of needed things, such as mentioned own lore magic but also more combos and sinergies. In the end, we have 5 characters and 3 units, and only 4/6 (with Ironsunz and Bloodtoof) battalions playable.

1. No, I didn't plan to charge anything else, though I should have done it, really. Nevertheless, They barely killed the Tzaangors. I needed all the attacks from the unit to kill them 2. The charge was 12" in fact. So yes, I have d3 damage with gruntas, but they managed to neither hit nor wound at all. 3. Meh, that's the word. My pressure was the control of the objectives, but my opponent had magic enough to pressuring me. The pendulum causing d6 mortal wounds through the portals (so he can just stay safe from long range charges, and behind his meat shields of Tzaangors), and that's just an example. The Battleplan, Escalation, was also a bit bad luck for me, I think. My Krusha started the game nearly my corner while the rest of the army was at 9" of the center line, so he couldn't get involved in the game (just a Waaagh). Another mistake I made was that I used a unit of Ardboys to go for a far objective, and I should have used the Gruntas, so they could go there, took control of it and then go faster to the melee. However, I am a bit disappointed with the Ironjawz. I needed my full attacks boosted with more attacks and bonuses to hit to kill 10 Tzaangors. His general with -2 to hit. His Enlightened killing whatever they want without any boost... If my enemy has better move, better magic (loads of better magic), better shooting and better combat, what can the Ironjawz do? And I'm not refering to the Tzeentch, but the whole other armies.

I've played today against a Tzeentch army. My army: Realm of Aqshy. -Maw krusha with Ignax Scales, Ironclad and armed with a Choppa. -Warchanter with The Golden Toof. -Weirdnob with Ruby Ring. -5 Brutes. -10 Brutes. -2x10 Ardboys. -3 Gore grunta. -Chronomantic Cogs. Bloodtoof battalion. My enemy army: Realm of Ghur. -Lord of Change with Incorporeal form and Gryph feather charm. -Ogroid Taumathurge. -Vilitch. -Tzaangor Shaman. -2x6 Tzaangor Enlightened on disc. -3x10 Tzaangors. -Aethervoid Pendulum, Umbral Spellportal, Soulsnare Shackles. We played Escalation battleplan from Corebook, in the Realm of Ghyran. I deployed all the army and decided to go second. My enemy did not move at all, just use magic powers to gain some summoing points. I advanced with my whole army to get the 3 points and start controlling them and summoned the Cog. I never get the initiative in 4 turns, so I always played after my rival. In the second battleround, my enemy moves forward, but not too much, and I decided to go for an all in. I used 3 times the Waaagh giving +4 attacks (a 6 was granted) to both units of Brutes, the Gruntas, the characters and 1 unit of Ardboys. The 10 Brutes charged against 1 unit of Tzaangors (this Brutes also got the boost from Warchanter), the other unit charged against another unit and the Gruntas charged against the last one. The Ardboys unit failed the charge (they had +6 to charge, but...). The Maw Krusha was really behind to even attempt a charge. The 10 Brutes stamped out the Tzaangors, as well as the other Brutes (though those Tzaangors failed the Battleshock). However, the disaster came. 10 Tzaangors killed 1 grunta, and the 2 remaining just killed 1 Tzaangor (with THIRTY attacks). The Ogroid was in distance to pile in, so he did and killed 2 Brutes (this thing is really brutal). Then, in the 3rd turn (we were 3-0), the Lord of Change positionated to charge the Krusha, and caused him 4 wounds with spells and 1 to the Warchanter (which, at the end of the battle, was crucial). The units of Enlightened attempted to charge the unit of 10 Brutes and one unit of Ardboys (the other one was sat in an objective really really far from the action). The Enlightened showed they are really good. The 1st unit completely destroyed the unit of Ardboys (only the Boss lived), so I decide to go with the unit of 10 Brutes (I reroll to hit, 21 attacks of damage 1, 6 of damage d3 and 3 of damage 2), even they had -1 to hit due to magic. They caused 14 wounds and killed 3 Enlightened, but the other 3 nasty birds killed FOUR Brutes, and 3 more on the Battleshock test... (so, I did 14 wounds with 30 attacks, he did 12 with 16 attacks...). The Lord of Change had -2 to hit, so the Krusha really did nothing except 1 wound from the Tail, and this caused 3 more wounds on him. The Gruntas and the olther unit of Brutes were erradicated... So, in the mere last battleround (4th, we were 5-1 at this moment), the Krusha caused 4 more wounds on the LoC and this killed the Krusha. The 10 Brutes were finally eliminated and the Pendulum inflicted 5 wounds to the Warchanter who was controlling an objective. Then, Vilitch teleported himself (Ghyran's Realm spell) to take that objective. The last unit of Enlightened charged into the far away unit of Ardboys, killing them with no survivors (the Ardboys attacked first, killing just 1, so 5 Enlightened killed 10 Ardboys in cover...). So, the final result, with the 5th Battleround remaining to be played, was 7-5 for my rival. I can say I had some bad luck, but I felt myself completely overwhelmed. He used 6 spells per phase, his LoC was tougher and hit harder than my Krusha. His Enlightened, even without any boost from auras or spells, could kill almost what they attack. And me, with units with +4 attacks, couldn't do anything.

I have a game tomorrow, against Tzeentch, an I'm going to play the following: -Maw Krusha. -Weirdnob. -Warchanter. -2x10 Ardboys. -5 Brutes. -10 Brutes. -3 Gore gruntas. -Bloodtof. -Cog. Which realm do you suggest to me? And which items? The trait I was thinking on Ironclad.

I agree with that statement. We are as slow as other armies are, but those armies can have nice shooting or magic. We have poor magic and barely nothing that shoots. For that reason I find mandatory to have the Cog, because we need to engage as soon as posible against shooting armies. Yes, other melee armies like DoK are also bonused but... They are top, we don't.

The problem I see using the Ardfist is that IJ are really slow. Painfully slow. Ironfist, more or less, solve that, but I feel rather uncomfortable using an army which moves 4" at best. And the Chanter is quite easily snipeable with magic or either (even) shooting.

The BCR can't ally with Ironjawz, sadly. Should you want a wizard, you must choose between the Hag, the Butcher or the Fungoid.

Hello. I'm starting playing the Ironjawz and I have a doubt arming my 'Ardboys. What is the best equipment for them? The whole unit with great weapons? All with two weapons? Mixed as they come in the sprues?